RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus

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tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 10:53:10 AM)
The president of the frat http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/92795/after-sigma-phi-epsilon-closes-bitterness-lingers/ I agree that it could be only a few, but this gentlemen keeping the actually people who promoted this survey a secret only makes himself a target.

LaTigresse -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 11:10:44 AM)
What a dumbass.

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 11:56:00 AM)
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In 1993, the frat was suspended after a video emerged showing new pledges being told to tell a racist joke and describe sexual encounters.

tj444 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 11:59:35 AM)
Sounds like if the person or persons had done the proper and adult thing and come forward, apologized and resigned from the frat, that the frat buds wouldnt be looking for new housing and the frat might have even stayed open.. so why are the frat buds protecting the guy instead of letting the coward face the music?.. I have no sympathy for his frat buds at all.. He who lies down with dogs will rise with fleas..

SailingBum -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 12:01:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx I believe what SB is trying to say is that these poor guys are guilty of no more than poor judgment, and they really should be left alone now. After all, Hustler does it, Howard Stern does it, why not a school sanctioned organization? Yes. More to the point they have a right to say it and they the " school sanctioned organization" has every right to un charter them. Furthermore using tazzy logic you don't have to read the newspaper that wrote the article. It's no different than a stranger coming up to you and saying I want to beat your ass. <which BTW has happened to me> but that's another story. Until they act upon the words ...it goes to the whole stick and stones deal. Get pissed off upset whatever it's only words.... Now if someone were to say that to my daughter. I would ferret him out and explain to him in no uncertain terms... " you won't have to worry they wont find your body" BadOne

SuzeQ -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 12:10:23 PM)
quote: Now if someone were to say that to my daughter. I would ferret him out and explain to him in no uncertain terms... " you won't have to worry they wont find your body" The girls on the survey are somebody's daughter, why wouldn't you extend to them the same protection?

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 12:38:00 PM)
Thank you for the slapping retort. However, why is this any different because it doesnt include your daughter. They are someone's daughters. Threatening to kill someone can be prosecuted. § 14‑277.1. Communicating threats. (a) A person is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor if without lawful authority: (1) He willfully threatens to physically injure the person or that person's child, sibling, spouse, or dependent or willfully threatens to damage the property of another; (2) The threat is communicated to the other person, orally, in writing, or by any other means; (3) The threat is made in a manner and under circumstances which would cause a reasonable person to believe that the threat is likely to be carried out; and (4) The person threatened believes that the threat will be carried out. http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-277.1.html 1. That the accused communicated certain language expressing a present determinationof intent to wrongfully injure the person, property, or reputation of another person, presently or in thefuture; 2. That the communication was made known to that person or to a third person; 3. That the communication was wrongful; and 4. That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice ofgood order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armedforces. To establish the threat, it is not necessary to prove that the accused actually intended to do the injurythreatened. However, it will not be a violation of this Article if the utterance is made as a joke or for an innocent or legitimate purpose. Part IV, MCM 1984, para 110(c). The circumstances surrounding theuttering of the words must be evaluated in order to determine whether the words were spoken as a jokeor as an actual threat. United States v. Johnson, 45 CMR 53 (CMA 1972) http://armymilitarypolice.tpub.com/mp1019c/mp1019c0031.htm California Penal Code 422 PC defines the crime of "criminal threats" (formerly known as terrorist threats). A "criminal threat" is when you threaten to kill or physically harm someone and that person is thereby placed in a state of reasonably sustained fear for his/her safety or for the safety of his/her immediate family, the threat is specific and unequivocal and you communicate the threat verbally, in writing, or via an electronically transmitted device.1 Criminal threats can be charged whether or not you have the ability to carry out the threat...and even if you don't actually intend to execute the threat.2 Examples Examples of conduct leading to a criminal threats charge include (but are by no means limited to): threatening to shoot another person while you are holding a gun, a recently fired employee calling the former boss and saying "you and the office staff better watch your backs," texting your ex that you're going to set fire to her apartment. http://www.shouselaw.com/criminal_threats.html Threatening in the Second Degree is defined as: placing another person in fear of imminent personal injury threatening to commit a crime of violence in order to terrorize another person issuing threats that are in reckless disregard of causing fear or terror http://www.ctdefenselawyer.com/CT-ThreateningLaws.htm Can we please put this aspect of... "you cant be prosecuted for threatening"... away? Its obvious you can be, depending on what state you live in.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 12:45:04 PM)
Re: tazzy's link. Frat boys are so cute when they try to play 'opressed minority'.

SailingBum -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 7:46:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeQ quote: Now if someone were to say that to my daughter. I would ferret him out and explain to him in no uncertain terms... " you won't have to worry they wont find your body" The girls on the survey are somebody's daughter, why wouldn't you extend to them the same protection? Im not the worlds police force, nor do I have the resources to do that. I take care of mine I expect everybody else to do the same. BadOne

LafayetteLady -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 9:54:25 PM)
Tazzy you just supported the other side. The school has taken action, but there hasn't been a lot of posted comments from college girls that say they were either on the list or are not fearful because of the list. And I'm not buying the "they're too scared to come forward" on this particular issue. It's a media circus and the boys are losing, I would think there would be lots of female students looking to comment and possibly get paid something for an interview to slam the guys. Look, I think it was really wrong of them to do. I think the fact the charter has a history of inappropriate behavior, and not knowing where to draw the line means they deserve to be shut down. They have been. The school has taken action and has every intention of incorporating some type of program the students must attend so they know why such behavior is wrong. My understanding is the school is still investigating to determine what students were involved and how the "survey" got started. Regarding the frat boys that aren't talking and spilling the beans....they are kids, young men, but really still just kids. Kids learn from a very young age, you don't "tattle" on your friend. In a fraternity or a sorority, that "don't tattle" gets amplified. You have a better chance of finding out what happened in Vegas than you do from a Greek house on campus. It doesn't make it right, but it doesn't necessarily make them all assholes either. We don't know the context of the entire event either. The point is that while it was a horrible, retched thing to do, unless the local police want to arrest every boy in that frat, those boys apparently have no intention of talking. If the school starts talking about taking away scholarships, suspending them from any sports activities (or other activities), they aren't talking. There is also the one little problem the cops would have in charging them. They didn't say, "girls we ARE GOING to rape," but rather "would like to." One determines an action and one doesn't in a criminal proceeding. It still doesn't make what they did right, but it does make a difference to charges being filed. On the other hand, if each and every girl on that list decided to civilly sue the boys in the frat, they have a strong case, at least to start. If the school starts withdrawing scholarships, suspending the boys from school activities like sports, clubs and campus "fun" activities, I'm willing to bet that at least one student is going to spill the beans on those who did it if he didn't take part because he isn't going to lose his ride. Personally, I believe the school should seriously consider taking those steps. I'm not willing to say each and every boy in that frat should be crushed like a bug (yet). I am saying that there are actions the school can take, as the investigation progresses, that will bring out the entire truth. And the entire truth is something we just don't have right now.

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 10:16:48 PM)
quote: Tazzy you just supported the other side. The school has taken action, but there hasn't been a lot of posted comments from college girls that say they were either on the list or are not fearful because of the list. And I'm not buying the "they're too scared to come forward" on this particular issue. It's a media circus and the boys are losing, I would think there would be lots of female students looking to comment and possibly get paid something for an interview to slam the guys. My previous post was intended to do nothing more then disabuse some posters of the knowledge that communicating threats cannot be prosecuted. As for the reactions of students... In response, FedUp Vermont has created an online petition to disband UVM's largest fraternity and has also planned to hold a "speak out against rape culture and sexism" conference on the steps of Bailey/Howe on Thursday. As of Thursday, the online petition had received 3,141 virtual signatures with a signature goal of 5,000. Some students said that they were disappointed with Sig Ep's actions. "I first found out about the survey through another student's blog, and was completely shocked," junior Sarah Carpenter said. "I just feel like there is this stigma with guys in fraternities and how they treat women, and they're just playing into that stereotype by doing something like this." As a result of the survey, Carpenter said she thinks the fraternity should be shut down. "They need to be held accountable for their actions," she said. "If they were being racist or homophobic I'm sure that UVM wouldn't think twice about shutting them down, but for some reason joking about who you would like to rape is just enough to put them on suspension." Other students said that it's impossible to judge all fraternities from the actions of one. http://www.vermontcynic.com/news/ralliers-respond-to-fraternity-rape-survey-1.2682888#.TvLHbjVSSrk Burlington, Vermont - December 18, 2011 Members of a women's rights group say they're growing in the wake of a University of Vermont frat survey scandal. The group, Fed-Up, rallied Thursday demanding that the Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity be removed from campus. The fraternity drew national attention this week after an internal survey surfaced asking members: "if I could, who would I rape." The national chapter ultimately shutdown the UVM chapter Friday. Fed-up members like Marni Salerno say they're pleased action came so quickly. "They need to do a really good job in making sure that UVM is a safe place for everyone." Group members say they initially brought the survey to the attention of the UVM administration. Fed Up is composed mostly of Burlington-area college students, but has members of all ages state-wide. http://www.wcax.com/story/16349755/fed-up-group-supporters-grow Students are coming forward to complain... most are through blogs. quote: There is also the one little problem the cops would have in charging them. They didn't say, "girls we ARE GOING to rape," but rather "would like to." One determines an action and one doesn't in a criminal proceeding. It still doesn't make what they did right, but it does make a difference to charges being filed. Again, I dont see, nor have I done so myself, anyone calling for them to be criminally charged. Im just not willing to sit back and tut tut this away with a "boys will be boys" attitude.

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 10:21:39 PM)
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/end-rape-culture-now---shut-down-sigma-phi-epsilon-vermont-gamma/ The petition.... I also wanted to point out that many of the students had their last exam day on Dec 17th. We could possibly hear more after the students return. First day of classes are Jan 17th,

LafayetteLady -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 10:27:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Again, I dont see, nor have I done so myself, anyone calling for them to be criminally charged. Im just not willing to sit back and tut tut this away with a "boys will be boys" attitude. I recall a few asking why charges haven't been brought. Yes, students are rightfully complaining, but I haven't read anything, even anonymously, from any girl on "the list" saying how it made her feel. Students are outraged and should be. Like you, I don't believe the whole "boys will be boys" attitude belongs here. In my very first post, I stated, the frat needs to lose its charter, the house closed down, the boys assigned to dorms, lose their scholarships, receive academic probation, attend classes, which I now believe should be through a rape crisis center and they should be ordered to participate in the fund raisers necessary to re-open their frat house as an on campus crisis center. I think if all that was done, the boys might learn something and become better men. They learn why what they did was wrong, and they make amends by providing a place where students can go when they are in crisis. Not "tut tuting" at all. Actually I never tut tut or tsk tsk.

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 10:31:54 PM)
LL, Im not arguing with how the school is handling this situation. I am arguing with the notion that they are merely boys who made a mistake. This isnt like stealing the opposing teams mascot, Greeks have been getting out of hand for years. One of the members just plead guilty to videotaping a woman in the showers at a local resort club. I think they are all banking on the notion that society will slap them on the wrist and let them go. Its time that attitude changed.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 10:34:20 PM)
I think that the boys were banking on rich mommies and daddies who are alumni of the school being able to sweep the issue under the rug. Boys who whether they had rich parents or were sports stars or some other "big man on campus" persona all their lives thought they could get away with anything.

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/21/2011 10:35:49 PM)
From some of the comments on this thread, that is exactly what could happen.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/22/2011 12:54:31 AM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx I believe what SB is trying to say is that these poor guys are guilty of no more than poor judgment, and they really should be left alone now. After all, Hustler does it, Howard Stern does it, why not a school sanctioned organization? Yes. More to the point they have a right to say it and they the " school sanctioned organization" has every right to un charter them. Furthermore using tazzy logic you don't have to read the newspaper that wrote the article. It's no different than a stranger coming up to you and saying I want to beat your ass. <which BTW has happened to me> but that's another story. Until they act upon the words ...it goes to the whole stick and stones deal. Get pissed off upset whatever it's only words.... And then he thinks about it being personal and pulls a quick, very hard 180. quote: Now if someone were to say that to my daughter. I would ferret him out and explain to him in no uncertain terms... " you won't have to worry they wont find your body" BadOne _____________________________ Legal stuff. Don't whine/complain about my advice. First I don't care. 2nd Like it or not YOU asked for it! It ain't about you Did I misunderstand? Murder? It is now a big enough deal to kill for, when before it was your daughter it was just some kids having fun? Fun they had a right to? Next post: quote: quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeQ quote:Bad One Now if someone were to say that to my daughter. I would ferret him out and explain to him in no uncertain terms... " you won't have to worry they wont find your body" Quote SuzeQ :The girls on the survey are somebody's daughter, why wouldn't you extend to them the same protection? Im not the worlds police force, nor do I have the resources to do that. I take care of mine I expect everybody else to do the same. BadOne So, let me see if I understand. As far as Bad One is concerned, if it happens to him or his, blood runs. If it happens to anyone else, screw 'em. It' isn't worth two figs. BUT... and this is the tricky part... it IS worth trying shout down anyone willing to stand up about it. This last part doesn't exactly confuse me because, oh how to put this, ... my Dad killed people. What I see here is Bad One attempting to carve out Room To Manuver - For Himself - so that he can do what he wants to do without being called on his bullshit. Do I got it? We are NOT all in this together? Not a society of Men under Law? Not civilized? Animals? And not even social animals, but herd animals? In a group but each looking after his own as best he can? S.O.P. being to run like hell from any threat and the Devil take the hindmost? That is what I am hearing. Is that what is being said?

FrostedFlake -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/22/2011 1:17:03 AM)
Lafayette and Tazzy. Regarding charges being brought. A couple thoughts. The police may feel that they have the luxury of time in this case. And that the 'survey' went around via the internet should mean a solid trail leading to each person involved. I am not the guy to predict what charges may be brought, but it seems as there should be something. There is also the civil side, again, ought to be something. And the social side of the equation is already becoming apparent. Frat house down. Probably scholarships too. Folks will likely be expelled. Those who remain will not be big men on campus with no-one but themselves to blame. There should be a restraining effect up and down Greek row, not just about how women are viewed, but about how privilege is viewed. Womens rights organizations are getting a little more support because of the flavor the matter leaves on the tongue. In conversations being held all over, certian people are hearing what they need to, to become better men. It may not be satisfying, but added up, it does amount to something. It amounts to change.

Miserlou -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/22/2011 1:49:28 AM)
i'm kind of saddened that this could be argued for 15 pages.

LaTigresse -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/22/2011 4:24:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miserlou i'm kind of saddened that this could be argued for 15 pages. Welcome to the hallowed halls of the Collarme forums! If 15 pages of reasonably polite (for here) debate saddens you.......prepare yourself to become suicidal on occasion.

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