RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:06:17 PM)

Come to think of it, wasn't this "teh Kenyan is not an American!" shite started by Hilary C in the first place? It were part of the increasingly desperate mudslinging she resorted to when it became clear that she wasn't going to get the nomination, warn'it?




tazzygirl -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:06:35 PM)

thomas.loc.gov/home/ds/s1122.html (the part that wont show is loc followed by a period, then gov)

According to this, the Senate was not in session.

“This is not a nice, clear-cut area at all,” said Robert Dove, a former Senate parliamentarian, when asked about the implications of the president’s move.

Recess appointments are typically controversial since presidents are circumventing the Senate by naming someone to a spot until the end of a year’s session. By this point in President George W. Bush’s second term, he had made 61 recess appointments, compared to 28 for Obama.

But Wednesday’s move took on a special significance because the Senate technically had not gone into recess. Instead, the Senate has been holding a series of pro forma sessions every few days in order to technically avoid recessing. The sessions are only a few seconds long, where one presiding senator — usually from nearby states such as Virginia, Maryland and Delaware — gavels the Senate in and out and goes home for the day.

When Republicans took control of the House, going into pro forma sessions became the norm since neither chamber can recess for longer than three days without the consent of the other.

But now that Obama has decided that pro forma sessions don’t matter much, Republicans warn there is no stopping presidents from undermining the Senate’s traditional advise-and-consent role.

The Obama White House said the pro forma sessions amount to a distinction without a difference since senators are on vacation and not conducting business.

“Gimmicks do not override the president’s constitutional authority to make appointments to keep the government running,” said one senior administration official, adding that Bush’s lawyers made a similar argument themselves.

Republican leadership aides said it was unlikely that senators would sue the administration over the matter, but industry groups said it was virtually certain it would be challenged in court. They said once the consumer agency issues a regulation, the constitutional issues will be raised.

In 2004, when the Senate was on an 11-day recess, Bush named William Pryor, a former Alabama attorney general, to serve on a federal appeals court. The move infuriated Democrats, and the late Sen. Ted Kennedy sought to take the matter to court since it happened within the 10-day recess window that most presidents respected before giving a recess appointment.
But an appeals court rejected the Kennedy challenge, and the Supreme Court declined to hear the case.


Some think the same will happen in this case if it’s challenged in court.

“This is a power the president has always had and every president has exercised,” said Marty Paone, a former Democratic Senate leadership aide who was in charge of floor procedure. “This was a power grab by Congress to take it back. All this does is reorient it to what it’s always been. This restores the balance.”

The GOP has other recourse as well.

Republicans in Congress could block future executive branch appointments until Cordray is removed or changes are made to the CFPB. Or Republicans in the House and Senate can block action on any of Obama’s legislative priorities, like trying to “zero out” funding for the agency.

At the very least, Obama’s move could end the pro forma sessions that have been the norm in recent years, allowing the Senate to officially go on recess.

“In my experience, presidents do get away with recess appointments,” Dove said.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71089_Page2.html#ixzz1itni20ND

It probably will end up in court. And it will be allowed to stand. This is nothing more than power grabs by all members of the legislator. Obama sent the message that it isnt going to work.




Lucylastic -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:08:36 PM)

Thats what happens when you dont have good sources and rely on google search results to back up what you are positing. Without checking your "proof" You come unstuck.




tazzygirl -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:11:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Come to think of it, wasn't this "teh Kenyan is not an American!" shite started by Hilary C in the first place? It were part of the increasingly desperate mudslinging she resorted to when it became clear that she wasn't going to get the nomination, warn'it?


During the Democratic Party's 2008 presidential primaries, anonymous e-mails from supporters of Hillary Clinton surfaced that questioned Obama's citizenship in an attempt to revive Clinton's faltering primary election campaign. These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion and birth certificate.

Wiki says you are right.




Lucylastic -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:14:11 PM)

I have to admit, I didnt follow that much of the lead up of the last election, only once Hilary got beaten by Obama, and I have zero interest in delving deeper, so thankyou for sharing that it makes some things clearer:)




Moonhead -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:15:32 PM)

It's news to me that one's been debunked, Lucy. Both New Statesman and the Grauniad were positive that somebody in Clinton's camp who had set that one rolling during the 2008 primaries, even if Clinton had a bit more class than resorting to that line herself.

(and Tazzy's beat me to the draw yet again. Oh well.)




tazzygirl -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:17:28 PM)

I dont think it came from her camp... at least not the close one. However, as has been shown in the Huntsman ad this year, it wouldnt be surprising if someone wanted Hillary to win so badly they started this on their own.




Lucylastic -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:19:02 PM)

well according to some, whatever people of the same political persuasion say, is the leaders responsibility.

It seems to be a popular meme, until it comes down to their own responsibilities.




Moonhead -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:20:21 PM)

Like the chimp did when he first started removing your basic constitutional rights after the al queda urban rennovation project in New York, you mean?
I don't remember any of you lads whining about that one like you are about teh Kenyan carrying on the same way. Quite the contrary, in fact: back then, anybody who pointed out that constitutionally defended rights were being repealed in the name of paranoia hated America and wanted to see the terrorists win...

(edited for a typo)




Moonhead -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:24:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont think it came from her camp... at least not the close one. However, as has been shown in the Huntsman ad this year, it wouldnt be surprising if someone wanted Hillary to win so badly they started this on their own.


It came from one of her employees. Not quite inner circle, but Hilary has enough wit to recognise that a claim like that would have to be deniable, so that shouldn't really let her off the hook.




tazzygirl -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:34:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont think it came from her camp... at least not the close one. However, as has been shown in the Huntsman ad this year, it wouldnt be surprising if someone wanted Hillary to win so badly they started this on their own.


It came from one of her employees. Not quite inner circle, but Hilary has enough wit to recognise that a claim like that would have to be deniable, so that shouldn't really let her off the hook.



All I could find is that it was one of her supporters.




Moonhead -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:39:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
All I could find is that it was one of her supporters.

Fair enough. An anonymous supporter is far more deniable than an employee, I suppose.
I'm enough of a cynic to doubt that this would be beyond her given a few of the other dirty tricks she pulled electioneering.
(And, of course, the notion of a neocon meme like the birther fallacy being sourced by their biggest bogeyman before the election of the Kenyan is gold to my hypertrophied sense of irony...)




tazzygirl -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:41:39 PM)

I put nothing beyond a politician.




Moonhead -> RE: RE:Bigotty bonkers birthers are baaa-aack. (1/8/2012 12:48:30 PM)

You shouldn't.




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