RE: Amish Jailed (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:40:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And one more...and, again, I dont blame them.

A report in the "Chicago Tribune" says the Amish church in the Illinois counties of LaGrange and Elkhart, where the unemployment rate is 19%, and where much of the state's Amish live, has allowed members to collect unemployment checks.

http://mystateline.com/fulltext-news/?nxd_id=61071

There are several different churches and sects of "Amish", including the Mennonites.  The problems with the triangles are not with Mennonites, but with Old Order Amish.  The article does not make it clear which church the collectors of unemployment belong to, so you can not make the conclusion you do.

Firm



Not to mention the families that had a patriarch who decided with his non ego, that the current church they belonged to didn't fit his view, so he moved his crew to another area to start a new sect. Which it seems is what happened in this instance.

I've grown up around them and I don't even try to keep them straight. Hell, in talking to some, they cannot keep it all straight as far as a national level.

Some only believe in wearing black or dark blue with no visible decorative fasteners on their clothes. Some allow the women to wear pastels. Some only speak their special version of german amongst themselves and others more english. Some are allowed to ride IN a motorized vehicle to do shopping as long as they are not doing the driving and the vehicle hasn't got unnecessary decoration like hubcaps, and others wouldn't be caught dead in one. Some find a battery powered radio okay and you can hear one blaring from a buggy going down a back road and others wouldn't dream of it...........and on and on and on...



Real0ne -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:40:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

thanks for that link it is a perfect example how your gubafia pals FORCE THEIR SERVICES UPON PEOPLE AT THE END OF A BARREL OF A GUN.

or do you mean exchanging your tinfoil hat for a straw wide brimmer?


they do not use any of that shit or at least until your gubafia destroyed the economy they didnt.  It sounds like they are being forceds into it to survive as a result of the thugs controling this joint as if I would be naive enough to think its not by design.



Clickofheels -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:40:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels

(Wonders if anyone realizes that the Amish do not utilize ANY forms of monetary, governmental assistance?
ie. get no SSI benefits, no Medicare benefits, no Disability benefits, NO WELFARE, no Housing Assistance, no Aid to Dependent Children, no Aid to the Elderly, etc.)

They are TOTALLY SELF-SUPPORTIVE of, and within their own communities!

But of course, that's what egotistical people do. (winks)


What does any of that have to do with the subject?


Hello again, Tazzy! (lol)

Oh, it was just in reference to a comment made about them being prideful and egotistical. You know how posters can cover quite a gammet of things under one thread! (LOL) And I sometimes make comments further down the line by the time I get them typed out! (Sorry)

Ms CLick



LaTigresse -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:42:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Like I said I will hgave to talk with them about that.

why dont you explain WHY they have to pay income taxes in CERTAIN situations   Can you?



Because it is the law.



barelynangel -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:46:11 AM)

Let me ask a question regarding this reflective tape because that to me is what they are objecting too..... the objection i see while the ORANGE is part of the issue they are objecting based on this:

quote:

[color=#0000cc size=2]The men have a religious objection to the bright orange signs, which they say are flashy and conflict with their pledge to live low-key and religious lives.



Reflective tape does the same thing, it makes their vehicles flashy so cars can see them when lights reflect off of them.

I mean okay i am not of their mind but to me, how does an orange sign conflict with a low-key life? Reflective tape to me is worse than an orange sign because its more flashy especially when light hits it.


I would even be up to the government compromising and indicating the sign can be white relective and not orange, but how far should a government have to compromise - what are the Amish willing to do to perhaps find a solution?

As many are saying there are many different versions of the religion yes?  So in the end, any solution the government makes is probably going to cause problems wherein some people decide to shun the people for any compromise they make with the government over laws.

So in the end, it seems as if its an internal issue within their community as a whole.

angel



tazzygirl -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:46:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And one more...and, again, I dont blame them.

A report in the "Chicago Tribune" says the Amish church in the Illinois counties of LaGrange and Elkhart, where the unemployment rate is 19%, and where much of the state's Amish live, has allowed members to collect unemployment checks.

http://mystateline.com/fulltext-news/?nxd_id=61071

There are several different churches and sects of "Amish", including the Mennonites.  The problems with the triangles are not with Mennonites, but with Old Order Amish.  The article does not make it clear which church the collectors of unemployment belong to, so you can not make the conclusion you do.

Firm



I was referring to the Amish in general, but that sect is here...

http://amishamerica.com/indiana-amish/

Elkhart-Lagrange

The order I am familiar with is an Older Order, the Swartzentruber Amish. They are very conservative,

Perhaps the easiest way to tell a Swartzentruber church member is by their carriages. Swartzentruber buggies do not carry the SMV triangle, reflecting Swartzentruber beliefs against wordly symbols and emphasis on reliance on God. Swartzentruber buggies also use limited reflective tape and lamp lighting, in contrast to the often very highly illuminated Old Order Amish buggies.

http://amishamerica.com/who-are-the-swartzentruber-amish/



Real0ne -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:47:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR:

When I moved back to Kentucky, I read up on the situation, and several others that are ongoing within the state over the issue.

The government does have a right to "pre-empt" certain religious beliefs, if the religious activity is against "public policy".  However, that being said, in my mind the question is: "Is a compromise available?".

In other words, it is in good public policy to prevent accidents with slow moving vehicles.  I don't think anyone - including the Old Order Amish who are involved in these disputes - will argue against that.

The question is how to prevent such accidents.  The government is requiring a specific mechanism, and even if other perfectly feasible alternatives exist, and are used, the Amish are cited and/or arrested.

The gubafia has spoken who DARE defy the God of gub?

To me, this lack of desire, or inability to attempt to achieve a non-confrontational solution is fully the fault of the government.

BINGO!

I grew up with Mennonite buggies on the roads, and reflective tape works fine.  Very few accidents.

Some counties or towns in Kentucky have decided - for various reasons - to accept this compromise within their jurisdiction, regardless of the state law.  There have been no accidents so far, and no problems.

Some jurisdictions have made it a point to "go after" the Old Order Amish who still use reflective tape, and not the triangles.  That is where the controversy comes from.

Yes gubafia incursion outside legitimate negotiation.

There are problems will both courses of action, but the ultimate source of the problem is a too restrictive law which makes no effort to take into account the citizens who live under it.

Firm


and what is public policy?

Its good ole boy rules!

Has nothing to do with rights!

I do not know that the amish are citizens, I would think not.  They would be foolish to be citizens.


















Clickofheels -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:47:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

But of course, that's what egotistical people do. (winks)


Again, world of difference between a group's philosophy and an individual.

Nor is a single act of pride a characterization of "egotistical," neither for the person nor the community.

If you believe no one Amish is ever capable of any act of pride or ego ever, how nice for you.

If you think believing something about one person of one group, or even a few, constitutes a judgment about the group, you've a lot to learn about both logic and misreading communication.



I was merely adding a reference to your statement that incorporated BOTH the words "pride" and "ego" in one sentence.
Of course people are CAPABLE of doing things...of anything, merely for the fact they are human. I am capable of blowing my neighbor to smithereens, but it doesn't mean I go and do it. (LOL)

And as for taking the acts of one or a handful of Amish and using it to judge an entire sect...isn't that, in fact, what this thread is doing? (Smiles)

Respectfully,
Ms CLick



mnottertail -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:48:42 AM)

They immigrated, they are born here, they are citizens.  funny that you are going off in all directions with this pontification of law (in your mind) and you dont even know if they are citizens?



Musicmystery -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:49:37 AM)

Not by me, and not by you distorting statements into what they neither said nor intended.

I'm not sure how being arrested and made a newspaper story maintains one's plain identity without attracting attention to oneself.

But then, you're the expert.



outhere69 -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:51:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels
(And by the way, most of their settlements are surrounded by gravel roads off a main, black-topped road. There have been many buggy accidents, and even their children walking home from school have been hit by cars going too fast and being out-of-control... in broad daylight, no less.)

Respectfully,
Ms Click

There's a community about 40 minutes from here near De Graff and they drive buggies on roads with 55mph speed limits.  The terrain is rolling hills and several are "blind" - ya don't know what's just over the rise until you're on top of it.

If I see fresh horseshit on the road, I'm real cautious going over the hills.



Clickofheels -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:52:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Well Clickofheels, neither do i.  So does that mean i can decide the rules of the road don't apply to me?

My question is do they pay taxes? 

angel



Pardon me, barely angel.
But I believe if you look further into this thread, I said it's marvelous there are "rules of the road" for both the public AND for the Amish! (Smiles)

And no. They do not pay income taxes, although they DO pay sales taxes to their individual states.
They pay nothing in, but also take nothing out.

Regards,
Ms CLick



Real0ne -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:52:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Like I said I will hgave to talk with them about that.

why dont you explain WHY they have to pay income taxes in CERTAIN situations   Can you?



Because it is the law.



run away while you still have your ass attached LOL



mnottertail -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:54:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Well Clickofheels, neither do i.  So does that mean i can decide the rules of the road don't apply to me?

My question is do they pay taxes? 

angel



Pardon me, barely angel.
But I believe if you look further into this thread, I said it's marvelous there are "rules of the road" for both the public AND for the Amish! (Smiles)

And no. They do not pay income taxes, although they DO pay sales taxes to their individual states.
They pay nothing in, but also take nothing out.

Regards,
Ms CLick


I belive they pay the self employment tax.  and yeah they take out, when they use our roads and our facilities and our economy....



Clickofheels -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:54:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Really?
So these idiots who've just been sent down aren't spending ten days being fed and housed at the taxpayer's expense, then?




By "idiots," I'm assuming you mean the Amish who were jailed? And yes, they ARE being fed and housed at the taxpayer's expense. Of course as a taxpayer, you could demand their release.....



Real0ne -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:54:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Well Clickofheels, neither do i.  So does that mean i can decide the rules of the road don't apply to me?

My question is do they pay taxes? 

angel



Pardon me, barely angel.
But I believe if you look further into this thread, I said it's marvelous there are "rules of the road" for both the public AND for the Amish! (Smiles)

And no. They do not pay income taxes, although they DO pay sales taxes to their individual states.
They pay nothing in, but also take nothing out.

Regards,
Ms CLick


that is my understanding also.

most likely they picked some hybrid situation as usual to pretend  the exception is the rule



Musicmystery -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:55:03 AM)

quote:

And no. They do not pay income taxes, although they DO pay sales taxes to their individual states.


Sorry, but yes they do pay income taxes, and property taxes, and estate taxes.

http://www.frugalconfessions.com/taxes/do-the-amish-pay-taxes.php



FirmhandKY -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:56:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I've grown up around them and I don't even try to keep them straight. Hell, in talking to some, they cannot keep it all straight as far as a national level.

Same here.

I think I grew up with members of the Beachy church, primarily, and then several others have been moving into the area over the last couple of decades.  Kentucky didn't have any Old Order until recently, and they are the ones now in conflict about the triangles.

We have some communities that drive buggies with triangles, some that drive with tape, some that drive only black cars, some that drive only dark color cars, etc.  You never know which church they belong too, but sometimes you can make a good guess.  Until you guess wrong.

We have several schools as well.  Some of the best construction crews are made up of them as well.

One of my oldest son's best friends growing up was a Beachy family who had decided to leave the church and enter the wider world.  They attended the Baptist private school with my son, and he ran a construction company.

Very good people.

Firm



tazzygirl -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:56:14 AM)

Some Amish do work jobs where they pay in, such as manufacturing or construction. Which is why that one church allowed its members to apply for unemployment.



Real0ne -> RE: Amish Jailed (1/14/2012 10:56:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Well Clickofheels, neither do i.  So does that mean i can decide the rules of the road don't apply to me?

My question is do they pay taxes? 

angel



Pardon me, barely angel.
But I believe if you look further into this thread, I said it's marvelous there are "rules of the road" for both the public AND for the Amish! (Smiles)

And no. They do not pay income taxes, although they DO pay sales taxes to their individual states.
They pay nothing in, but also take nothing out.

Regards,
Ms CLick


I belive they pay the self employment tax.  and yeah they take out, when they use our roads and our facilities and our economy....


doooood they do not have a fucking choice, that is NOT their fault nor should they be punished for allowing the rest of you to build those roads they DO NOT NEED except to make you happy in the first place.





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