RE: SOPA and PIPA info

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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/22/2012 9:32:59 PM

SilverBoat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Several quite successful bands encourage their fans to video shows with cellphones and post those on the web.

Yes. And that's the ARTIST'S choice.

Some people let their neighbors borrow their car. But I wouldn't suggest "borrowing" one without permission.

Yeah, I'd agree, that what an 'artist' produces, and transfers to others with permission to use, all that's fairly straightforward.

Where I'd suggest, though, is that in ethics and practicality, technology has been rapidly blurring the boundaries of 'possession' between what an artist produces and the observer experiences. Within a decade or so (or less), high-quality audio and video recording devices small enough to be implanted will be on the market, which raises the question of whether anybody other than the implantee can reasonably 'own' the infomation that's been acquired and stored completely within their body. (The complete 'sensorium' recording stuff, such as in the Gibson tales, seems a long way off, but ya never know.)

I'd readily grant that an exact digital copy of an audio or video track could reasonably be defended as copyrighted. What about a redigitized recording made from stereo-mike taped to a car's console? There will be enough of the original waveform remaining for smart-phone apps to identify the original track, thanks to some fancy FFT and database registries. But where is the copyright boundary between sharing that recording freely, and say, getting garage-band buddies together to cover it (maybe clumsily), or maybe parody it quite wittily? And where might the boundary be in a decade, when half the freaks at a concert might have i-pods built into their noggins so they can download and replay their personal experience? An x-ray machine at the door, that keeps the coolest, hippest, latest-gear trend-setting demographic out of the concert, might be a fast route to touring oblivion.

I dunno what the optimal answers are to all of that, but ethics, like laws, have to be practical to explain, consense (if that's a verb) and enforce. And that's where SOPA etc are headed, as usual a few decades behind the curve. Yeah, I'm a good enough musician to land occasional paying gigs, and it'd be nice to soak up some residuals, but I'm trying to look downrange aways, and aim for realistic paradigms. It might be that rapport between performers and audience would do better without megacorps trying to leverage profits between both sides. A million downloads at $.10ea is $100k, and maybe easier than dealing with finding a 'good' recording amid the blitz of crap at 'sharing' sites.

Again, I dunno for sure, but the scope at which the personal audio tech will probably level out seems reasonably predictable. That's where the musicians should thinking, discussing, etc, transparently with their audience. And the less that the laws get involved, probably the better.

...

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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/22/2012 9:39:17 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

I'd readily grant that an exact digital copy of an audio or video track could reasonably be defended as copyrighted. What about a redigitized recording made from stereo-mike taped to a car's console? There will be enough of the original waveform remaining for smart-phone apps to identify the original track, thanks to some fancy FFT and database registries. But where is the copyright boundary between sharing that recording freely, and say, getting garage-band buddies together to cover it (maybe clumsily), or maybe parody it quite wittily?

None of these are grey areas--they are all quite explicit in existing law.

The copies are all illegal. The cover is not; the venue's licensing covers the royalties. If the band records the cover, the band is liable for licensing. The parody is fair use.

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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/22/2012 9:45:39 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Ummmm, musicmystery, give me permission to monetize your works, and I will take 30% and give you 70%.

I don't understand how you can't be making money from your music catalog, really, youtube, pays you via adsense for views, if you have any significant demand for it, you could easily monetize it, also, by making it available in a very convenient manner their is little point to others pirating it.

So, I'm really not buying this whole music downloads is a problem thing, Movies, yeah, I get that to some degree, but even then it's the Movie industries refusal to make their product available in a modern format that causes most of their problems as well.

IMO.

Sure, piracy isa problem, but it's funny that when viacom sued youtube, viacom had lost track of videos it had uploaded to youtube under fake accounts to create an interest in their content, and actually filed against videos they had uploaded. LOL. So, it's not so far fetched to believe that fake takedowns will occur whether intentional or not.

Anyway, the solution isn't to force the present model of CD's, movie theaters, etc... the solution is to make avialable the content in a form much easier to consume than stealing it. At present it's far easier to download a movie than go buy the dvd. That's a big portion of the problem.

Aside from the bizarre take on ethics--you can readily buy that movie download on iTunes, or jump on Amazon for the DVD--and your apparent stance that piracy is fine as long as you're making money elsewhere (?!)--your grasp of the reality of the industry is...missing. People can readily buy songs for .99 cents on iTunes, download albums...how easy is that! Still they take the pirated ones. Go figure.

Your understanding of Adsense numbers is also shaky. But tell you what--if you want to put in the time, sure, I'll take you up on your deal. Cmail me and we'll set it up.

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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/22/2012 9:59:03 PM

Rule

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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Ummmm, musicmystery, give me permission to monetize your works, and I will take 30% and give you 70%.

But tell you what--if you want to put in the time, sure, I'll take you up on your deal. Cmail me and we'll set it up.

I think that you take an awful lot, NTUY. But so be it. I wish the both of you prosperity in your endeavors.

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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/22/2012 10:04:03 PM

Icarys

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I'm not condoning SOPA/PIPA in the least but I can understand where people would want to protect their interest but infringing in that way is not even an option. They have courts and so on for that, just like the rest of us. Giving corporate power over the internet or any entity for that matter in such a sweeping way will result in far too many abuses of that power.

I say they continue the way they have been and shore up their interest like all of us would.

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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/22/2012 10:47:47 PM

SilverBoat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

None of these are grey areas--they are all quite explicit in existing law.

The copies are all illegal. The cover is not; the venue's licensing covers the royalties. If the band records the cover, the band is liable for licensing. The parody is fair use.

Existing law, yes. I know the existing law. I've been around pro-am music and theatre for a while, heck, I'm in the movie database too.

The point is that existing law has become, due to technology, impractical to administer with anything resembling uniform and equitable effect.

To draw a parallel, current copyright laws are trying to apply horse-n-buggy highway rules to aircraft traffic control, while everybody is about to get personal flying belts. Technology is adding dimensions to the situation, and reducing the granularity scale. We've already had the equivalent of joyriding kids carousing into jetliner flightpaths, and major carriers claiming eminent airspace domain because their profits are in the public interest.

The old paradigm, expressed as the existing laws, ain't even close to detecting a tiny fraction of what it defines as violations, much less enforcing them in reasonably just manners. I completely understand that people who make money from music may not want to revisit all of that, but within a decade, short of policing the insides of peoples' heads ...

...

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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/22/2012 11:02:02 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
People can readily buy songs for .99 cents on iTunes, download albums...how easy is that! Still they take the pirated ones. Go figure.

I can't use iTunes, fucking format wars. I've used Rhapsody and Yahoo! music, the quality wasn't there in my opinion. So it was back to buying cd's for me so I can stick them in the computer once and then toss them in the closet like I'm living in the Dark Ages.

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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/22/2012 11:27:12 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Ummmm, musicmystery, give me permission to monetize your works, and I will take 30% and give you 70%.

I don't understand how you can't be making money from your music catalog, really, youtube, pays you via adsense for views, if you have any significant demand for it, you could easily monetize it, also, by making it available in a very convenient manner their is little point to others pirating it.

So, I'm really not buying this whole music downloads is a problem thing, Movies, yeah, I get that to some degree, but even then it's the Movie industries refusal to make their product available in a modern format that causes most of their problems as well.

IMO.

Sure, piracy isa problem, but it's funny that when viacom sued youtube, viacom had lost track of videos it had uploaded to youtube under fake accounts to create an interest in their content, and actually filed against videos they had uploaded. LOL. So, it's not so far fetched to believe that fake takedowns will occur whether intentional or not.

Anyway, the solution isn't to force the present model of CD's, movie theaters, etc... the solution is to make avialable the content in a form much easier to consume than stealing it. At present it's far easier to download a movie than go buy the dvd. That's a big portion of the problem.

Aside from the bizarre take on ethics--you can readily buy that movie download on iTunes, or jump on Amazon for the DVD--and your apparent stance that piracy is fine as long as you're making money elsewhere (?!)--your grasp of the reality of the industry is...missing. People can readily buy songs for .99 cents on iTunes, download albums...how easy is that! Still they take the pirated ones. Go figure.

Your understanding of Adsense numbers is also shaky. But tell you what--if you want to put in the time, sure, I'll take you up on your deal. Cmail me and we'll set it up.

I'll admit I'm not embedded in the music or movie industry, but as far as adsense, I know all about adsense, and EPN. I spent easily the time it would take to get a degree figuring adsense out. While I'm new to trying to monetize youtube, I'm not new to the adsense angle. So, question my knowledge on the music industry I'm fine with that, I just know a portion of the people wouldn't steal if more content was supported by advertising as opposed to direct cost. And when I spoke of movies I didn't mean old movies I meant new releases at the theater, and even with "old" movies they generally release them on dvd well before they allow downloads. They are starting to do that better, I own a few movies in purely digital form on amazon, that I can watch anytime from anywhere if I have internet like the godfather, and forest gump (I watch those again ever now and then), and really anywhere I'd watch a movie I have internet so it works for me. I won't buy dvd's anymore, because I always scratch them, lose them, or whatever. I want instant Permanent access from anywhere, and I will pay for that, but they don't allow it, except for older stuff, but they are getting better, I'll give them that.

And for the record, I haven't downloaded anything illegal in years, I did at one point in time, when I got my first hi speed connection, I went nuts, but with hulu, netflix, and the beginning ability to buy movies in purely digital streaming form, and the shear lack of movies that I'd want to watch to begin with, there is little need to download illegally. However, given the situation that there are people like me, that simply will not buy a dvd or cd, or whatever scratchable media, and also will only buy instant streamable content, they are leaving a lot of money on the table. I know I'd spend at least a couple hundred more a year, if more were available sooner. I had an account at lala.com wich allowed you to buy and stream your music from the internet legally, and I probably spent 60 bucks there collecting my favorite songs, in the couple of months before Apple decided to buy it, and shut it down, and since then I've spent exactly zero dollars on music. I've not downloaded them illegally either, Almost all of them are on youtube, and I just make a playlist, and listen on random playback, and I'd guess about 70% of the songs are there from the actual record companies the others probably illegally uploaded. So, 30 percent aren't getting revenue they could be getting. That's not saying it's right for people to upload them, but you will never control 100% of the population, especially teenyboppers, that want everything now.

Anyway, I'll put your stuff on youtube, and attempt to monetize it if you are serious, and I'll even viciously track down those serving duplicates, I won't track people that are offering something that you aren't allowing on the web though, but hey if your stuff is just sitting there, not making you money even if it only made a 1.00 well, it would be worth the experiment. I like experiments, lol. I can't make people view your stuff though. So, how knows, hopefully you are a member of pink floyd or Ringo Star, and I'll be rich.

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