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RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 2:51:53 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Rant aside, how exactly is addressing piracy "censorship"?


You should know as well as anyone that's not the only thing it will be used for.

And the technical details of implementing the requirements of the bill include installing your own version of the Great Information Wall of China, providing the ability to freely censor the law abiding part of your population. It will have no impact on the primary channels of piracy, or any other illegal activities. It will also have no impact on the outside world.

Do you trust all your future governments with that power?

quote:

As for complete control, the Internet runs of federal infrastructure--it has had complete control from the start, if it wanted/wants; it could turn off in a second.


Do I need to point out explanatory books, or will it suffice to point out that this is incorrect?

I realize few are familiar with the inner workings of the Internet, but the easiest way for the U.S. to turn off the Internet is an upper atmosphere nuclear warhead over every continent. That is also going to give the least fallout (pun intended). I'm not in the field anymore, haven't been for a long time, but even back then, there hadn't been any real U.S. control beyond the level of being able to cause a temporary inconvenience for 10-20 years.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:03:19 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		However, the king and the coffeehouse didn't record the performance and sell it a thousand times for its own profit while the musician was left out of the financial loop and pretend it was a free speech issue.


(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:05:25 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Equivalently, it would be akin to a library having to close its doors becasue a magazine in their possession contained a single pirated article.


This is the best analogy of how this works that I've heard so far. A similar one is shopping malls having to shut down because a candy brand one shop carries has been accused of trademark infringement. Either one will adequately convey how the underlying technology works, in terms comprehensible to the layman, but yours was probably the closest direct analogy, whereas mine more emphasizes the scope.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:07:21 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		As you both know, this is not a case of websites with a single inadvertent second-hand copyright misuse incidence. No one would much care about that, beyond conscientious editors.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/18/2012 3:08:12 PM >

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:09:02 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'd like to work in a country/world where I can produce content and not have it stolen.


I'd like to read it in a world where it hasn't become inaccessible due to crimes neither of us committed (see Ron's library analogy and my mall analogy; it's a technical matter... what you're imagining is a sniper rifle, while what the technology permits is a cluster bomb warhead).

For instance, your blog will go down if another blogger on that service is accused of piracy.

That's assuming they make it as surgical as the technology permits.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:10:12 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Hardly. My blog is completely original material.

I do have commercial websites. They also have original material, including the designs.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:18:42 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
However, the king and the coffeehouse didn't record the performance and sell it a thousand times for its own profit while the musician was left out of the financial loop and pretend it was a free speech issue.

I guess that you are talking about a website selling advertisement space on their website? What is stopping you from starting your own website and selling your own advertisement space?

In fact performers ought to pay such websites for promoting them, just like the paying advertisers do.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:20:01 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'd like to work in a country/world where I can produce content and not have it stolen.


I'd like to read it in a world where it hasn't become inaccessible due to crimes neither of us committed

I'd like to decide for myself whether I charge for it or distribute it free, and which is which.

"Accessible" here means "I take whatever I want without regard for copyright ownership."

"Inaccessible" in this context means, "Sure, I'd be happy to do business with you."

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:22:05 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Hardly. My blog is completely original material.

I do have commercial websites. They also have original material, including the designs.



Let's say for instance that these sort of laws are passed in the UK or elsewhere. Let's further speculate that someone in the UK doesn't like the content of your blog. So they post some infringing content in the comments to a blog post. They immediately file a lawsuit against the DNS providers demanding your blog be removed from the DNS servers. Suddenly your blog is unavailable to most people and you did nothing wrong.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:22:37 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
However, the king and the coffeehouse didn't record the performance and sell it a thousand times for its own profit while the musician was left out of the financial loop and pretend it was a free speech issue.

I guess that you are talking about a website selling advertisement space on their website? What is stopping you from starting your own website and selling your own advertisement space?

In fact performers ought to pay such websites for promoting them, just like the paying advertisers do.


No. I'm talking about duplicating recorded material and selling it without the rights to do so.

That's hardly "promotion" of the artist.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:26:15 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Hardly. My blog is completely original material.

I do have commercial websites. They also have original material, including the designs.



Let's say for instance that these sort of laws are passed in the UK or elsewhere. Let's further speculate that someone in the UK doesn't like the content of your blog. So they post some infringing content in the comments to a blog post. They immediately file a lawsuit against the DNS providers demanding your blog be removed from the DNS servers. Suddenly your blog is unavailable to most people and you did nothing wrong.

That so many of you repeat this like it's a likely scenario is just stunning.

Fine. If that were the environment for real, I'd probably just disable comments.

How about when people loved my work and reproduced it illegally? How about when they rip off my content for their own profit? That's not a hypothetical, and that's a far more real threat than your imagined one.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:34:53 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo

ICANN is under the US jurisdiction. So is IANA and ARIN. Case closed.


The default configuration of the network stack is not.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to RakeAndCo)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:36:53 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
No. I'm talking about duplicating recorded material and selling it without the rights to do so.

That's hardly "promotion" of the artist.

You are wrong: it is promotion of a kind.

However, if someone produces and sells a physical product that a performer contributed to then, depending on the conditions of previous contracts, it seems fair that the performer is recompensed, which may however also have as a consequence, depending on fore-said conditions, that the performer himself may have to recompense other people.

But this does not apply to the sharing of information, which billions of people have done throughout the ages.

The best thing such a performer can do in circumstances as specifically outlined by you, is to alert the media and the public. Christian people will then boycott such entrepreneurs.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:44:09 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Hardly. My blog is completely original material.

I do have commercial websites. They also have original material, including the designs.



Let's say for instance that these sort of laws are passed in the UK or elsewhere. Let's further speculate that someone in the UK doesn't like the content of your blog. So they post some infringing content in the comments to a blog post. They immediately file a lawsuit against the DNS providers demanding your blog be removed from the DNS servers. Suddenly your blog is unavailable to most people and you did nothing wrong.

That so many of you repeat this like it's a likely scenario is just stunning.

Fine. If that were the environment for real, I'd probably just disable comments.

How about when people loved my work and reproduced it illegally? How about when they rip off my content for their own profit? That's not a hypothetical, and that's a far more real threat than your imagined one.

The private enforcement provision is in the laws. The DMCA was abused many times and it is strictly domestic sites only. Consider the travails of dajaz1.com under PRO-IP.

I want protection for my IP just as much as you do but a law that could be used to shut down collarme as well as piratebay is too much.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 3:46:51 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		What an incredible crock.

If you decide, independently, to "promote" me, I've no obligation to you. In fact, please never promote me that way. Ever.

When a performance is recorded, the terms are set in advance. For example, re-broadcast royalties for my symphony work. The same for publishing (Newsday and I, for example, hold joint rights to reprinting). Or not--demos I've recorded for publishers were one shot deals, but with limited use provisions--they can use it to promote their music library, not to compile a "greatest hits" album.

It absolutely DOES apply to COPYRIGHTED information.

And I can tell you that Christian people most assuredly are not boycotting those entrepreneurs. We live in a culture that implicitly condones it. Selfishness is an equal faith opportunist.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 4:01:57 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yep, back to the cassette days would be my guess when it really became bad. Pop one in, and you were set.


Yeah, the RIAA said they would go tits up in a couple of years after the tape recorder popped up.

Instead, it exposed a lot of people to cool new music to buy, and made it possible to listen to what you wanted from some album, rather than the whole album as a single piece. That made me go from occasionally having a listen to a record, to constantly having my own blend of music with me. I attribute at least USD 10.000 worth of purchases on my part to this combination of convenience and free advertising, current rates. YouTube can be credited with a similar amount.

That doesn't cover movies and books, of course, where I've spent substantially more.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 4:02:37 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
If you decide, independently, to "promote" me, I've no obligation to you. In fact, please never promote me that way. Ever.

I rather believe that there is reciprocity in law. Meaning that if the baker is not allowed to steal from the mason, the mason is not allowed to steal from the baker. (For some reason politicians are exempt from that reciprocity principle, I believe.)

Thus if the boss of artists who have sold their soul to him, can send copyright trolls after people who share information without having legally bought such information from that boss, but instead having obtained it in some other way and therefore having no legal obligation whatever to that scam artist, then of course someone may promote you without having a legal agreement with you and reciprocitively subsequently bill you for doing so. Don't throw mud if you do not want to have mud on your own face.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 4:03:47 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		What the fuck are you talking about?

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 4:06:36 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		I am talking about you wanting to sell baked air.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: SOPA and PIPA info - 1/18/2012 4:07:06 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yep, back to the cassette days would be my guess when it really became bad. Pop one in, and you were set.


Yeah, the RIAA said they would go tits up in a couple of years after the tape recorder popped up.

Instead, it exposed a lot of people to cool new music to buy, and made it possible to listen to what you wanted from some album, rather than the whole album as a single piece. That made me go from occasionally having a listen to a record, to constantly having my own blend of music with me. I attribute at least USD 10.000 worth of purchases on my part to this combination of convenience and free advertising, current rates. YouTube can be credited with a similar amount.

That doesn't cover movies and books, of course, where I've spent substantially more.

Health,
al-Aswad.


Alas, you are not the typical consumer.

Even music stores are nearly a thing of the past.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 140
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