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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:09:29 AM

xssve

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quote:

I would never stay with a Dominant who expected me to work outside the home, who did not work himself, expected me to pay all bills out of my money, cook and clean for him, raise the children, do all yard work, take care of his and my parents, make all social plan AND also submit to him in the bedroom with no expectation of an orgasm or pleasure-inducing pain. I mean, really? Surely the Dominant has to have some responsibilities within the relationship??? (I think every couple is free to determine how to strike the balance, but surely the OP's notion that a submissive should have ZERO expectations from the Dominant whatsoever is false).

Damn.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:10:55 AM

Lockit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Since when do we consider meeting, playing with, dominating or submitting to those we meet, a validation of character, willingness, submissiveness, dominantness, or anything?

It matters when people are asking how to meet someone on the kinky internet, and there have been a lot of posts about that lately.

We all know men and women in real life who are good people but who "have no game" when it comes to dating. Someone who has met a ton of people off CM "has game," but may or may not have character.

Also, there will be men and women who don't want to date someone who meets "too many" people off the net. There is an almost-official status of "professional online dater." Someone who never gets deep in his or her "relationships" because there are always more fish in the online sea. So that's at least one situation in which meeting lots of people off the net can be considered a character flaw.

I look for signs of character online, in the same ways I look for character in someone, offline. Character will prove itself no matter where it is found. The lack thereof would also prove itself no matter where it is lacking. It isn't the game... the amount of action or lack of it, that proves character. I have met people that met lots of people and some that have met very few... but most had character because they have proven it to me in some manner, before I met them. Now, if I see someone that goes to play with lots of people, never settles in with anyone and seems to be playing and having a great time, I still wouldn't think they had no character. I might think they were very active, but unless they have shown that they were dishonest or something of that nature, I wouldn't think badly of what they were doing. I might not make them a partner as we are coming from different places, but it wouldn't be a good tool to make a character assessment. The same thing goes for the person that doesn't meet many or play.

If a person is honest... I don't care how many or how few they have had any type of experience with. I may determine whether they are partner material by it, but I sure wouldn't judge character by it. Their word and how they conduct themselves says far more to me.

Online and offline shouldn't be much different. The way things happen might be different, but judging character or a suitability of a partner isn't different. Its personal, its situational and one size doesn't fit all, but relating to someone shouldn't change by the status of where or how we meet them.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:20:14 AM

RedMagic1

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I agree.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:21:29 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Probably!!

It's never too late.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:28:28 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Since when do we consider meeting, playing with, dominating or submitting to those we meet, a validation of character, willingness, submissiveness, dominantness, or anything? I can see wanting to invalidate a statement made by one who can barely validate himself in any manner most of us would respect, but really, no one has to prove anything here.

IMO, it's actually a validation of compatibility. I'm more than willing to PM people that I like. I'm willing to go to phone conversations with those that I feel a deeper friendship with, and so on. Eventually, like DominantHunger said, I'm willing to have a relationship with those that I have extreme compatibility with.

That said, the odds have been that if the compatibility factor isn't there, it's for other reasons than she's not submissive enough. The exception is people like Lockit and hausboy that I communicate with knowing full well that the D/s, geographic, or gender fit isn't there, but we like each other anyway and we know that a full relationship isn't a possibility but friendship is.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:48:31 AM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Since when do we consider meeting, playing with, dominating or submitting to those we meet, a validation of character, willingness, submissiveness, dominantness, or anything?

It matters when people are asking how to meet someone on the kinky internet, and there have been a lot of posts about that lately.

We all know men and women in real life who are good people but who "have no game" when it comes to dating. Someone who has met a ton of people off CM "has game," but may or may not have character.

Also, there will be men and women who don't want to date someone who meets "too many" people off the net. There is an almost-official status of "professional online dater." Someone who never gets deep in his or her "relationships" because there are always more fish in the online sea. So that's at least one situation in which meeting lots of people off the net can be considered a character flaw.

True, there is also the temptation to reinvent yourself, and even with my limited experience in meeting people off-site (there's like one submissive woman if I search my hometown, and she's 18 and hasn't been on since 2007) I've noticed a discrepancy between the idea I formed from their online persona and what they were like in meatspace - not necessarily better or worse, just... different.

It why I love these profiles that jump out with "never again"! and proceed to lay down the law about what what they will and won't do, this is somebody who has discovered the difference between fantasy and reality, and this profile is no exception.

Reality check time, if the real thing isn't living up to your expectations, then you need to either adjust your expectations or accept that those expectations are too narrow to be easily met, expecting other people to change to suit you is delusional and a certain recipe for frustration.

You've got the right to say it, just don't expect it to change a whole lot, and the Zeitgeist is always cycling, both in here and out there, so today's "that's the way it is", is tomorrows, "so last week".

I try to keep my online personae roughly congruent with my actual one, I really am all over the place, leading to some perception that I'm MPD-Schizo, when I'm just trying to cover all the angles, re: above, things are always shifting and changing, that's the one thing that never changes.

So it kinda goes back to that personae, we constantly make these little cosmetic adustments to stay at the height of fashion, but the underlying truths tend to remain. Like I never actually say "like" this much, like in real life.

I have been known to "talk like a book" until everybody is snoring, just not very often, it being a largely depreciated mode of conversational intercourse in this glib age, so I probably do that more in here than I do out there.

Otherwise, it's a bunch of people with a roughly common interest, but widely varying expectations about how it's all supposed to go down - can it be any different?

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:49:26 AM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantHunger

That's not what I got from his post at all. What I got from it was he didn't want a submissive who was insisting on indulging in having their fantasies played out for them while doing nothing in return for their Dom. Maybe the OP should clarify, but I believe you took the wrong message from his post.

Well the one clarification the OP gave was the following: "Lizi - no, I just find that many submissives here want a "Master" who does everything for them...sometimes when I ask them up front and sometimes it comes out later after they 'commit'"." This was all the clarification he gave.

To me, this suggests someone who has misplaced expectations about BDSM. Although, yes, agreed, he has not yet provided a definition of what he means by "everything". But, surely, he does not actually mean that someone is asking him to do "everything". I am just trying to understand even what he means (my first post on this thread, by the way, actually did ask him to clarify his question - but, of course, he hasn't done so, because I don't think he meant "everything"). What he most likely means is that the submissive women he spoke to had some set of expectations that he did not feel he had responsibility for. In which case, it just begs the question of what is he doing for them, and are their demands truly "excessive", or is the OP just someone who doesn't understand that in any relationship there will be give and take - it is simply a question of how these get defined.

Reading between the lines, I think the OP is talking about something financial. And again, without knowing more, it is impossible to say whether or not the submissive's expectations were reasonable or not. I am only trying to point out to the OP that any relationship, even a BDSM one, has a give and take. And that it is unreasonable for any Dominant to think that a submissive would come into a relationship with zero expectations. Obviously, this person is not communicating well with people (including us), but may also have unreasonable expectations in his own mind. He is clearly encountering this situation of the submissive who demands "everything" repeatedly. Again it just raises a lot of questions about the reasonableness of the OP's assumptions about BDSM to begin with.

I am a self-described "princess", but, of course, I don't expect a Dominant to do "everything" for me. That is ludicrous. But I do expect a mature discussion before entering a serious relationship of what the give and take within the relationship will be. At this stage of my life, particularly being financially self-sufficient, the discussion around give and take is an important one because I don't feel there are obvious answers around how one could choose to divide up tasks and responsibilities. I think there are many ways a couple can divide tasks, depending on the specific circumstances and the individual wants and needs, and still be absolutely a D/s couple. Again, if the OP would define what he means by "everything", I am sure all of us could provide greater insight.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:50:03 AM

searching4mysir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

hahaha....he'd pay someone to see that too! I think he would look at me and wonder who I was. lol

Maybe I should give it a shot though huh? LOL

Do it on April 1st and report back

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:52:22 AM

LadyHibiscus

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I am a dominant princess, and I wouldn't expect anyone to do everything for me. It would be nice if he *wanted* to, though.

And I am the same person that you read here. The people I've met from here tend to be as well. When they've proven to be different, it's a jeckyll/hyde level of different, that they have a shiny exterior and are hollow inside.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 10:58:34 AM

Lockit

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LOL LadyHib... I am a dominant princess wannabe! Last night Knyt asked me if I liked Valentines day. I so suck at this princess thing! I told him I didn't like the holiday... I just screwed myself out of a gift didn't I? Oh well... he does give me just about anything I want on any day... so... one day or holiday lost won't make a big deal.

Do I expect it? Would I expect it were I submissive? You can bet somebodies sweet ass I would! Yet, I wouldn't expect it without being willing to give, take care of, even serve... a partner. Its a give and take world... I am just boss in it. Hehehe

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 11:44:29 AM

xssve

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Well you know if you can live the fantasy, more power to you, if you're living it, it's your reality, and I don't know that any one reality is any better than any other one, all things being equal.

The Journalistic reality, for lack of a better term, ain't that pretty at all - if we couldn't escape it once in a while, even if just for a little while, we'd all go truly insane I suspect, denial is a survival mechanism.

But even on Gor, things aren't always what they seem, just sayin'.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 11:46:13 AM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

LOL LadyHib... I am a dominant princess wannabe! Last night Knyt asked me if I liked Valentines day. I so suck at this princess thing! I told him I didn't like the holiday... I just screwed myself out of a gift didn't I? Oh well... he does give me just about anything I want on any day... so... one day or holiday lost won't make a big deal.

Do I expect it? Would I expect it were I submissive? You can bet somebodies sweet ass I would! Yet, I wouldn't expect it without being willing to give, take care of, even serve... a partner. Its a give and take world... I am just boss in it. Hehehe

Yepper. I hate V-Day. But the day after I can get chocolate on sale, so HEY! Win.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 11:59:14 AM

xssve

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And, a more charitable interpretation might be that he expects to do something, just not "everything".

He just didn't word that in a way that was calculated to divert attention from himself in the way he might have expected.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 7:09:32 PM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PurrfectPleasure

everyone has differant defination so hard to say as I say im dif may try to bend his way if right man

There ya go.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 7:27:50 PM

DominantHunger

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I still don't get where you think he's saying the Dom should do nothing and the sub everything. He specifically stated a willingness to do things for the submissive. He just stated not wanting it to be a one way street. You're also saying the relationship shouldn't be a one way street. Reading between the lines of your post, I believe you are dealing with some unresolved and misplaced anger... but that's just my take on it.

There most certainly are "subs" posting on the personals side asking for a Dom who does literally everything - all they are willing to do is be a fuck toy. The OP is not off base at all in claiming those types exist. My critique of the OP is he makes it sound like those types are far more common than they really are. In my experience, once you exclude the pure con artist and game players from CM, the majority are looking for legitimate two way exchanges in the form of either relationships or casual play sessions.

< Message edited by DominantHunger -- 2/2/2012 7:37:46 PM >

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 7:31:21 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brder

It's been my experience here that submissives here often are looking for the one WHO DOES EVERYTHING FOR THEM. Is this really submission???...it seems more like vanilla world-- female domination to me than submission. I'm not saying I wouldn't do many things for a submissive I cared for, but I just don't have a feeling here that submission means submission.

Relationships are defined by the people in them.

I am a slave.
I am guessing you might be horrified to learn that yesterday my Master brought me to His house and did my laundry: 3 loads, washed and dried.

Would you care to know that I have been battling Shingles?

I serve my Master well.
When I especially please him I am rewarded.

Sometimes I am rewarded by getting to take a bath in His Jacuzzi bathtub.
Sometimes I am rewarded with spankings.

Sometimes I am rewarded by having my hair brushed.

These are all privileges that we both enjoy.

He loves to reward great service and devotion.

Do not mistake this for a cushy arrangement.
I am not a pillow-princess.

I am just a devoted slave who pleases Him more often than not.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/2/2012 7:37:41 PM

xssve

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My Mom has shingles.

Guess it's not that much fun apparently.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/3/2012 6:42:57 AM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantHunger

There most certainly are "subs" posting on the personals side asking for a Dom who does literally everything - all they are willing to do is be a fuck toy. The OP is not off base at all in claiming those types exist.

My quibble is with the word "everything". If the Dom is, as you say, doing "literally everything", then the submissive is doing absolutely nothing (by definition). Therefore, she is not even willing to be a fucktoy. I'm not saying anything very complicated here (and hardly being defensive) - I think you are reading much more into my answer than there is. The issue is the word "everything". In my dictionary, everything really means everything. A submissive who is being a fucktoy, is, in fact, doing "something". It may not be enough for a particular Dominant - but that is up to the two people involved to negotiate. I am only asking the OP to define what he means by "everything", because, surely, that is not actually what he means (because the implication of that is that the submissive is literally doing nothing - not even play). Just to be clear, the OP did not say "everything financially" or "everything sexually" or "everything emotionally" or "everything around the house" - he just said "everything".

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 2/3/2012 7:01:21 AM >

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/3/2012 6:48:27 AM

searching4mysir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

My Mom has shingles.

Guess it's not that much fun apparently.

Nope...not fun in the least. When I had shingles many moons ago, it was stress that brought it on. It was like localized chicken pox with a fever and a rash that started near my spine and wrapped around to the front of my torso that itched and was painful. I was given an anti-viral but was not allowed to return to work (for 1 week) since one of the men I worked with had never had chicken pox.

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RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? - 2/3/2012 6:59:09 AM

fucktoyprincess

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p.s. I also want to say that I am one of those people in BDSM who does not believe that there is any "natural" way to divide outside the bedroom tasks. The specific circumstances of the two individuals involved will influence more how tasks are divided up then any fixed definition of what a Dominant or a submissive is supposed to do.

I know several submissive women who work at careers where they both earn a lot of money, and work long hours. They still enjoy bedroom submission. Often in their relationships they have earned more than their partner. So they are not about to quit their job to stay at home and do all the housework. For the couple as a household, that would make no economic sense. So the nature of a D/s relationship like that is obviously going to be specific to that couple and the specifics around finances, free time, etc. that they each have, and how it makes sense for them as a couple to divide tasks.

I think it is interesting that many on this thread seem to assume that submissive female automatically equals housekeeper and cook - I don't see that as something that is fixed into the definition of submission. And like I say, I know women for whom that would make no sense given their professional lives and commitments. So, at the end of the day, this is all about give and take between two people.

I've had long term relationships with Dominants who loved to cook, and although I'm a very good cook myself, they really loved taking the lead on cooking. Does this make them less Dominant?

I think the OP is someone who has a fixed definition of what Dominance means and what submission means. Then he should continue to search for someone who matches what he seeks. But underlying some of this discussion has been a sense that there is only one real definition of D/s. To which I say, categorically, no.

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