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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 9:22:00 AM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Why is it people arent putting up a noise against having to pay for rapists, murderers, molesters, pedes, abusers? killers who drive drunk and kill...name your favourite crime...paying for them to be housed, fed, for their terms, but wont pay for birth control?let alone abortion. I understand the moral issue, I dont agree with it, but I understand it. They made their choices. why should crims get a pass. Why is it morally wrong to support birth control, but not feeding killers of people who have lives????
Murder is illegal, Abortion is legal.
It has NOTHING to do with money, it has to do with controlling women and their inner organs, EOS

Well, gee, Lucylastic, perhaps it hasn't been germane to the thread to post my views on the Death Penalty and Life Sentence with no possibility of parole. If you'd like to know them, please do start a thread about them.

When there are almost a 10 laws pertaining to deletion of rights for prisoners, purely for moral and tax reasons. I will. I dont need a thousand various types of bill...
Morality is sexist it seems to me right now.. Wanting to be able to take "personal responsibility" for herself, a woman that wants to be protected against pregnancy and disease, so she uses birth control, but NOW its getting harder and harder for women without insurance, the poor, etc the help to do just that...
But you continue to liken half the population to a kosher deli
Thats such a lovely analogy
From Women who WANT to be responsible but having the inability to do it with all these bills coming out against PP, abortion, and having to live by someone elses moralising, I thankyou from the heart of my bottom!

Nice spin tho. Ignore the point.
Thankyou for playing , its what I expected sadly.

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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 9:54:01 AM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

I wonder how the little woman survived on her own without any of those government 'entitlements'...

She got married to a man.

Since humans began (almost) men and women have been involved in a contractual situation.

Men (generally) have a surplus of "strong back". They hunted and fought off invaders etc. If they weren't successful at these things ...

Women had the market cornered on reproduction. They sought out the man that could take care of them to the standard they expected and, when they found that man, she allowed him to reproduce with her and thus, ensure the continuation of his line.

If a man hunted well and protected his woman well, he was rewarded with sex (children). If a woman gave a man sex (children), she was rewarded with food and security.

In the 60s and 70s, this all changed. Women demanded (and got) the ability to begin to start competing with men for "mans' jobs". Eventually, their salaries increased to start becoming competetive with men's salaries. In fact, in major cities, women, under 30 make 8% more than their male counter-parts.

So, what it comes down to is: Men, in some peoples' view, are no longer necessary. They've become disposable. They can be treated like shit and become new castrates because there's no negative ramification to doing otherwise.

Women are still in control of reproduction and men no longer have the market cornered on "strong backs".

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Ain't evolution a bitch.

'Course in this case, it mostly due to Reaganomics cutting variable costs through policies that slashed salaries (mostly men's) and family income, driving women en masse into the workforce.

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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 2:11:44 PM

erieangel

Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

Huh? Who am I asking to pay for my meds?

My point exactly.....
Who are these "womens" asking to pay for their medications......?
It`s not you or the tax payer so mind you own business.
Capiche?

Reeaallyy?

Does Medicaid cover birth control? I do believe that would be "yes." In that case, it is me and the taxpayers.

I have absolutely no problem with women getting what they need, or what they want. Okay, I do have one little problem. I don't believe I should be paying for them. Let me pay for mine. You pay for yours. that's all I'm saying.

Medicaid also pays for prenatal care as well as labor and delivery. And if the woman on Medicaid is also on cash assistance, the baby will be--you will be paying for all of that via your taxes.

So...which is cheaper, paying for birth control or paying for the pregnancy and then for the child possibly until that child is 18 years old?

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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 2:22:07 PM

Owner59

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The who`s paying argument dissolves instantly when you explain that it`s cheaper.

But most cons aren`t driven by 'financial' conservatism.The few that are are the party`s moderates.

The know-it-alls pushing this agenda couldn`t care less if something cost more.......as long as they get their 'social' conservative way.

This is why they`re called "neo-conservatives"....because their gov.in your bedroom crap certainly isn`t conservative and bush&Co. proved

neo-cons aren`t financially conservative either.

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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 7:19:06 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Why is it people arent putting up a noise against having to pay for rapists, murderers, molesters, pedes, abusers? killers who drive drunk and kill...name your favourite crime...paying for them to be housed, fed, for their terms, but wont pay for birth control?let alone abortion. I understand the moral issue, I dont agree with it, but I understand it. They made their choices. why should crims get a pass. Why is it morally wrong to support birth control, but not feeding killers of people who have lives????
Murder is illegal, Abortion is legal.
It has NOTHING to do with money, it has to do with controlling women and their inner organs, EOS

Well, gee, Lucylastic, perhaps it hasn't been germane to the thread to post my views on the Death Penalty and Life Sentence with no possibility of parole. If you'd like to know them, please do start a thread about them.

When there are almost a 10 laws pertaining to deletion of rights for prisoners, purely for moral and tax reasons. I will. I dont need a thousand various types of bill...

Huh? So,you are in my face about my posts being about sex and sex-related issues, but have no problem ignoring non sex-related issues?

quote:

Morality is sexist it seems to me right now.. Wanting to be able to take "personal responsibility" for herself, a woman that wants to be protected against pregnancy and disease, so she uses birth control, but NOW its getting harder and harder for women without insurance, the poor, etc the help to do just that...

If you recall, I do expect a male to be responsible for himself, which would include purchasing his own BC. If you want to negotiate and have him pay for part or all of your BC, then by all means.

quote:

But you continue to liken half the population to a kosher deli
Thats such a lovely analogy

And you've interpreted it quite incorrectly, too. My kosher deli anecdote was in response to DaddySatyr's hypothetical of a kosher deli being forced to provide ham sammiches to it's employees. How you get "women are just like a kosher deli" out of that, I'm not sure. But, I would like to know what you thought was the equivalent to a kosher deli losing its certified kosher status, if we go with the assumption (even though it is dead ass wrong) that a kosher deli is like a woman.

quote:

From Women who WANT to be responsible but having the inability to do it with all these bills coming out against PP, abortion, and having to live by someone elses moralising, I thankyou from the heart of my bottom!

Nice spin tho. Ignore the point.
Thankyou for playing , its what I expected sadly.

Well, even though I didn't really ignore the point, at least I knew what the point was. Is BC unavailable if PP goes under? That answer is, "no." Having someone else pay for it just got harder, though.

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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 7:23:43 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
The who`s paying argument dissolves instantly when you explain that it`s cheaper.
But most cons aren`t driven by 'financial' conservatism.The few that are are the party`s moderates.
The know-it-alls pushing this agenda couldn`t care less if something cost more.......as long as they get their 'social' conservative way.
This is why they`re called "neo-conservatives"....because their gov.in your bedroom crap certainly isn`t conservative and bush&Co. proved
neo-cons aren`t financially conservative either.

Did you answer my question as to whether or not it would just be cheaper to ship them to Switzerland? It isn't necessarily about "cheaper." It's about taking responsibility for your actions. If I make a mistake, do I expect you to cover my ass? Certainly not. I expect that a decision I make will lead to consequences (both good and bad) for me.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 7:30:37 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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Let's play Platitudes versus Reality:
Platitiude: Both partners are equally responsible for Birth Control
Reality: Most of the time, it ends up being the woman's responsibility.

Platitude: Both partners are equally resposible for rearing children (in or out of marriage)
Reality: Women end up with the responsibility for child rearing almost all of the time (in or out of marriage)

DS can mouth all the platitudes he chooses to. We all know that it won't make the slightest difference in reality. Women will end up having to pick up the pieces while the men are off in the pub comparing dick sizes and having pissing contests, and every now and then, beating up a queer or two to prove their masculinity. Just like it has been since time immemorial.

The choice then is between platitudes and reality. With children's lives at stake. For anyone who has to live with the consequences of their choices, that's a very easy choice.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/18/2012 7:34:21 PM >

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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 7:34:33 PM

farglebargle

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Actually, given the relative risks, men should bear about 39 Million times the responsibility as women. For each potential egg, there's that many sperm, right?

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RE: Don’t Tread on Us....... - 3/18/2012 9:58:37 PM

tweakabelle

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That's one way of assessing the relative responsibilities. In terms of consequences, there is one unfortunate and all encompassing fact that all the platitudes in the world ignore, and can't change even if they didn't ignore it in the first place.

The reality is that women are forced to live with the consequences - children. Men have choices. Many men do the right thing and try to live up to their responsibilities as best they can. Some men don't. All the platitudes in the world are useless when it comes to a single impoverished mother trying to feed, educate and raise her child(ren) as best she can. This is the reality that the looney Right/moral/libertarian-type perspectives ignore. We can indulge ourselves by talking about a perfect world where everyone does the right thing all the time, but we all know that is pure self-indulgence, a fantasy that will never materialise.

Of course there are irresponsible mothers too. As long as we allow all adults an unlimited right to reproduce whenever they like, we must accept that there are going to be irresponsible parents out there. It is inevitable.

The solution in such cases is not to penalise or punish the mother (as the looney Right/moralists/libertarians would have us do), but to support her appropriately. If we don't, the inevitable consequence of our failure to provide appropriate support is that the children end up suffering for their parents' and society's failings and incompetence. As those children mature into disadvantaged resentful adults, with all the predictable flaws we know eventuate from such childhood environments, we all end up paying the price anyway.

Cold cynical hearts and heads beget cold cynical hearts and heads. Where is the sense in perpetuating this cycle of abuse?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/18/2012 10:38:45 PM >

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