RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate

RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (Full Version)

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Raiikun -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:18:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You seem to be saying that it is ok for the Catholics (or anyone else for that matter) to force another to follow the tenets of their religion. Strawman. I've said very much the opposite.

xssve -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:21:28 AM)
Didn't you know? Lying is the new truth: it's ok to lie to sinners in the name of John Calvin, our enabler. You just keep hammering on it till it seems "truthy".

tazzygirl -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:23:01 AM)
quote: Lame weak non-response...... Its all he's got when he is caught.

Raiikun -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:23:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Lame weak non-response...... No other response needed when your post was a logical fallacy. I'm dealing with several people trying to claim I said something I didn't at once, it's tiresome to have to correct every instance.

tazzygirl -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:24:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You seem to be saying that it is ok for the Catholics (or anyone else for that matter) to force another to follow the tenets of their religion. Strawman. I've said very much the opposite. No, you didnt.

Raiikun -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:27:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl No, you didnt. Yes, I have. I've stated I'm not against BC, and on page one of this thread, I've said: quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun To be fair, fighting against the HHS mandate isn't about trying to control reproductive lives. That is very much not: quote: You seem to be saying that it is ok for the Catholics (or anyone else for that matter) to force another to follow the tenets of their religion.

tazzygirl -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:33:05 AM)
Too many posts show that your "page one" post is a lie.

xssve -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:33:12 AM)
Nah, you're just arguing that people taking federal tax dollars to provide services should get to cherry pick what services they want to provide. You want to make your own laws, based on your religious beliefs, and make everybody else obey them, why that''s totally different. Like I said, just don't take the money, you can do whatever the hell you want: prayer, exorcisms, whatever voodoo you think is best - that's not going to protect you from the inevitable malpractice suits, but it is religious freedom.

farglebargle -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:36:44 AM)
If your religion says 'Fast', then go ahead and fast. But don't go telling anyone they need to shut down the cafeteria. Keep it to yourself.

Raiikun -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:38:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Too many posts show that your "page one" post is a lie. Feel free to demonstrate.

xssve -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:47:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: xssve You realize you're equating birth control with heroin? No, I'm not. You realize that's just an analogy? Yeah, like you just picked that at random. [;)]

tazzygirl -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:47:35 AM)
quote: Or maybe it's that they can't in good conscience let a service they provide be an enabler of "immoral" behavior. Advocating the right of others to decide what is moral or is not. quote: Probably the same difference in their eyes as an employer compensating his employees with heroin, or the employees taking their salary and going out to buy that heroin. Comparing the prevention of something legal with the belief that its a co-dependent behavior. quote: I don't believe it does encumber the free exercise of conscience of anyone. Their right to obtain contraceptives would not be tread upon, nor their right to choose a provider that covers the contraceptives if they want it covered rather than paying the 15-50 dollars themselves. When women cant pay for the rent, food, power, water, clothing, supplies and other bills that pop up with motherhood, that 15- 50 a month is a god send they dont have to pay for out of pocket. 50 dollars is a Dr visit co pay for many policies. quote: I'm just also equally for giving the choice whether or not it should be covered when not used to treat medical conditions, and ideally for the consumers being able to have the choice of what services they are willing to pay for. Being pregnant is a medical condition. Many things are prescribed to prevent medical conditions And this is just this thread alone. You pay lip service to the issue by claiming you are all for bc being available. yet determine that employers should be able to decide who is eligible for what service. Its discrimination because this is an issue that does not affect men, yet it is men who are making this very medical decision for women.

Raiikun -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:53:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Advocating the right of others to decide what is moral or is not. Wrong. It was about paying for it, not make them decide what is moral. quote: Comparing the prevention of something legal with the belief that its a co-dependent behavior. Wrong. It was an analogy; as explained before. quote: When women cant pay for the rent, food, power, water, clothing, supplies and other bills that pop up with motherhood, that 15- 50 a month is a god send they dont have to pay for out of pocket. 50 dollars is a Dr visit co pay for many policies. Different and valid issue for another discussion. It certainly doesn't prove my statement on page 1 is a lie. quote: And this is just this thread alone. Feel free to do the same with other threads, since you've failed to provide one actual example to make the claim I was lying on page 1.

Owner59 -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:55:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Lame weak non-response...... No other response needed when your post was a logical fallacy. I'm dealing with several people trying to claim I said something I didn't at once, it's tiresome to have to correct every instance. Go elsewhere with the lame non-responses.......then.

tazzygirl -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:58:20 AM)
quote: Wrong. It was an analogy; as explained before. And the analogy is faulty as hell. There is no comparing a co-dependent behavior for addiction with the prevention of something else when that prevention is perfectly legal. You compared obtaining birth control without a co-pay as being able to obtain heroin. And there is your true belief. That birth control is enabling an addiction to sex. Your true moral belief. Stated quite plainly, no matter how you try to deny it now. quote: Different and valid issue for another discussion. It certainly doesn't prove my statement on page 1 is a lie. As the one above, goes to state of mind. If I state I am all against murder, yet do not report one, then my statement is a lie. The same as yours. quote: Feel free to do the same with other threads, since you've failed to provide one actual example to make the claim I was lying on page 1. I proved it quite sufficiently. The fact that you want to try and deny that doesnt make it any less true.

farglebargle -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 10:58:46 AM)
The insured or her insurer pays for it.

Raiikun -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 11:00:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And there is your true belief. That birth control is enabling an addiction to sex. Your true moral belief. Now you are the one lying, unless your understanding of what an analogy is really is that lacking. I've said NOTHING to imply that I believe birth control is enabling an addiction to sex, that is entirely your construction. quote: There is no comparing a co-dependent behavior Do you know what my "comparison" here is? Two things that a Catholic organization might find morally wrong. That's it, nothing more.

xssve -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 11:05:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice I find myself thinking it's a bit, well, creepy for an all-male, all-unmarried elite to be so hellbent on controlling other people's reproductive lives. To be fair, fighting against the HHS mandate isn't about trying to control reproductive lives. It's about not wanting to pay for it. quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: xssve Look, if you're getting federal funds, you have to comply with federal law, that's it, you don't want to comply with federal law? Don't accept federal funds. The debate is kinda about what federal law should be. No, it's about what the federal law is, and it's called equal protection under the constitution. You all stepped in this shit when you decided it was a great idea for the taxpayers to subsidize your religion, when you already tax free - which itself constitutes a subsidy. A lot of religious people saw this coming, and said as much at the time - didn't seem slow you down any right then though. Reminds me of an Easter Egg hunt the city put's on every year, and every year, busloads of Baptist kids from out of the county, even out of state shows up like a swarm of locusts - it ain't god providing for you baby.

tazzygirl -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 11:05:44 AM)
An analogy... 1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump. 2. similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine. Now, show an analogy between heroin use and preventing a pregnancy.

Musicmystery -> RE: Catholic Bishops' Fight Against HHS Mandate (3/18/2012 11:06:22 AM)
quote: I've said NOTHING A simple summary. Though you've reacted a lot.

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