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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

As a Vietnam combat veteran, I am in favor of a military draft for all children aged 18 to 50 of any member of Congress who votes "Yes" on a declaration of war, with those Congressmen's children to report for basic training within 48 hours of their parent voting "Yes" on a declaration of war.

Further, it should be written into such a draft law that those children of those members of Congress voting "Yes" on a declaration of war be only allowed to serve in a combat arm (Infantry, Armor, Artillery or Combat Engineer) and only as an enlisted service member or a non-commissioned officer.

Further, a similar draft be mandated for the children of the President, Vice President and all members of the Cabinet.

If Julie and Tricia Nixon had been drafted into the U. S. Army Infantry as privates the day their father "Tricky Dick" Nixon was sworn in as President - the Vietnam war would have ended in a negotiated peace in 1968.

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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

As a Vietnam combat veteran, I am in favor of a military draft for all children aged 18 to 50 of any member of Congress who votes "Yes" on a declaration of war, with those Congressmen's children to report for basic training within 48 hours of their parent voting "Yes" on a declaration of war.

Further, it should be written into such a draft law that those children of those members of Congress voting "Yes" on a declaration of war be only allowed to serve in a combat arm (Infantry, Armor, Artillery or Combat Engineer) and only as an enlisted service member or a non-commissioned officer.

Further, a similar draft be mandated for the children of the President, Vice President and all members of the Cabinet.

If Julie and Tricia Nixon had been drafted into the U. S. Army Infantry as privates the day their father "Tricky Dick" Nixon was sworn in as President - the Vietnam war would have ended in a negotiated peace in 1968.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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If everyone, chickenhawks included, had loved ones called up to serve, we would see how long it would take to find an end to this slaughter (US military AND Afhgan/Iraqi civilians).

We had a draft during the Vietnam War and that lasted longer than WW 2. I'm afraid your premise is faulty, unless of course, unlike the Vietnam Draft, no exemptions are allowed for strategic occupation, University enrollment, and gender. That might have the effect you desire.

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ORIGINAL: hlen5

The point of me starting this thread was the burden of fighting has rested on far too few shoulders for far too long.

The draft should have been called long ago to not make so FEW bear the burden of these un-needed wars.

A draft with NO special treatment of the wealthy and well-connected would be more fair.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

To be fair, your administration is working on the assumption that they can fight wars without an army.
(I don't see why a draft would be a problem, anyway. The elite's kids can claim that they're 4f because they've got a wart on their arses or go awol from the national guard, and the untermensch can go and get shot to make sure that they won't end up on welfare.)

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ORIGINAL: mynxkat

I only skimmed most of the posts in this thread. One idea I've supported since I came across it is the idea of earned citizenship.

In order to vote or be eligible for any sort of government office, elected or appointed, you MUST be a citizen.

To earn citizenship, you MUST serve in the military, any branch, and be honorably discharged.

For this to work, however, anyone who chooses to serve in the military MUST be accepted, there can be no refusal based on physical disabilities or any other reason.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: mynxkat

I only skimmed most of the posts in this thread. One idea I've supported since I came across it is the idea of earned citizenship.

In order to vote or be eligible for any sort of government office, elected or appointed, you MUST be a citizen.

To earn citizenship, you MUST serve in the military, any branch, and be honorably discharged.

For this to work, however, anyone who chooses to serve in the military MUST be accepted, there can be no refusal based on physical disabilities or any other reason.

Would people who refuse to serve no longer be citizens? I mean would they go from "auxilliary" (as children under their parents' citizenship) right to non-citizen, if they refused to serve?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I think what FD is trying to express is a belief that our elected representatives would be far more reluctant to commit our forces, if they knew their own offspring would be on the front lines.

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ORIGINAL: mynxkat
In this set up, military service is entirely voluntary, with only one or two reservations (but those are doozies, I'll get to them in a moment). No one is required to volunteer for service, so it's entirely possible to have a family where the parents are NOT citizens, but one or more of the offspring are.

There is absolutely NO inherited citizenship in this set up, either, you either serve and earn your citizenship or you don't and you remain a resident, but not a citizen.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
As a Vietnam combat veteran, I am in favor of a military draft for all children aged 18 to 50 of any member of Congress who votes "Yes" on a declaration of war, with those Congressmen's children to report for basic training within 48 hours of their parent voting "Yes" on a declaration of war.

Further, it should be written into such a draft law that those children of those members of Congress voting "Yes" on a declaration of war be only allowed to serve in a combat arm (Infantry, Armor, Artillery or Combat Engineer) and only as an enlisted service member or a non-commissioned officer.

Further, a similar draft be mandated for the children of the President, Vice President and all members of the Cabinet.

If Julie and Tricia Nixon had been drafted into the U. S. Army Infantry as privates the day their father "Tricky Dick" Nixon was sworn in as President - the Vietnam war would have ended in a negotiated peace in 1968.

Obviously an excellent point and a more than valid one, coming from whence it does.
Do you disagree that young people can benefit from the discipline and uniformity the military provides?

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Do you disagree that young people would be more "rounded" individuals if they spent some time with young people from other areas of the country; instead of their own little neighborhoods?

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Do you disagree that the structure of military life would be an advantage to just about anyone that's been exposed to it?

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm just excited about not having to pay federal taxes! That's a great idea.

Not really, no. I wasn't really trying to mock you but, do you see any issue with making citizenship conditional?

I don't know which amendment to start with but, I'll start with 5.

In your scenario ...

... achild is born. That child is not a citizen. That child attains the age of 18 and in order to be allowed to vote, hold public office, or be given a non-elected government job (mailman, police officer, firefighter, tax collector, surveyor, civil engineer, etc.) they have to enter a military where they will be forced to follow the orders of someone they had no voice in electing (The president being commander-in-chief of the armed forces)? Seriously?

Now, let's not even go to a (discernable) constitutional issue:

Your system would set up a class system such as none of us alive, right now have ever seen. We would truly be a society of the "Have"s and "Have not"s.

Oy! No thank you.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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ORIGINAL: mynxkat
I will also grant that the period of transition from our current government to a system such as I describe would be horrendously complicated, and likely take at least a decade to complete.

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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

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ORIGINAL: mynxkat
I will also grant that the period of transition from our current government to a system such as I describe would be horrendously complicated, and likely take at least a decade to complete.

You do recall, since your idea was influenced by Sci-Fi writer Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers, that the transition in the book came out of armed civil war, which Heinlein refers to in the book as the "Veteran's Revolt"?

I sincerely doubt that such a drastic governmental change could be made wthout violence.

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ORIGINAL: mynxkat
With all due respect, I disagree.

The type of government I'm describing would require ALL of the lawmakers, congress members, the President, and everyone else making policy decisions about the nation to have already demonstrated a willingness to put the welfare of that nation ahead of their own. Our current government (in the U.S., at any rate) has become so bogged down by corruption at every level and lawmakers and policy makers looking out for only their own special interests that frankly, it's time to scrap it and start fresh.

I will grant that the form of government I'm espousing is not viable with the Constitution and Amendments that currently (supposedly) form the basis of the United States government. I will also grant that the period of transition from our current government to a system such as I describe would be horrendously complicated, and likely take at least a decade to complete.

Cynical? Perhaps.