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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 3:42:04 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

pushing people who simply want Zimmerman to face a jury in with fringe nuts calling for other things.

I'm not pushing them in, they're jumping in on their own. When I cite #KillZimmerman, and you react like I was talking about you, I have to figure you know better than me. But hey, thanks for your candidness.

K.

No, you're doing the usual guilt by association crap that is SOP for cons until it is turned around on them and then it's whine, whine, whine.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 3:43:30 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Honestly, I don't think race had much to do with this. He was dressed the way the majority of teenage boys dress these days. I think that George Zimmerman, who want to be a police officer, but never passed the test or was accepted in the academy (forget where I read that) was determined to be the most diligent neighborhood watch "captain" ever. I think he was over zealous and determined to become a "hero" however he could.

I think that's probably pretty much on the mark. And given that Trayvon appears to have confronted him in a challenging way, there requires only to add testosterone, shake well, and serve.

K.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 3:44:38 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No, you're doing the usual guilt by association crap that is SOP for cons until it is turned around on them and then it's whine, whine, whine.

You and Owner sharing a rock now, eh? How's that working out?

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 3:51:11 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
My position from the start has been that bad judgment on both sides created this tragedy.

Really? Confronting somebody who's been following you about rather than leading them to your home is bad judgement?

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 3:59:42 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Honestly, I don't think race had much to do with this. He was dressed the way the majority of teenage boys dress these days. I think that George Zimmerman, who want to be a police officer, but never passed the test or was accepted in the academy (forget where I read that) was determined to be the most diligent neighborhood watch "captain" ever. I think he was over zealous and determined to become a "hero" however he could.

I think that's probably pretty much on the mark. And given that Trayvon appears to have confronted him in a challenging way, there requires only to add testosterone, shake well, and serve.

K.


I don't consider turning around and asking someone why they are following them to be "confronting them in a challenging way."  Yes, it is a confrontation, but think about what we teach our children.  We teach them to keep walking, but we also teach them to scream for help when facing danger.  

Let's face it, teenagers in general, and especially teenage boys don't tend to have the best judgement.  Still, when asked "why are you following me," the fact seems to be that Zimmerman did not respond like an adult or a neighborhood watch volunteer would normally or correctly respond.  If anyone is wondering, that response should have been, "I'm part of the neighborhood watch and I don't recognize you as living here.  We have had some breakins recently, so the neighborhood is a bit concerned about people we don't know being in the neighborhood."  Even if this statement was made to some kid "casing the neighborhood," it would not have likely provoked an attack, it would have caused the kid to either run or make up some lie about visiting a friend of a friend.  While crime happens everywhere, burglary is not a big crime in the area, which would imply that when it happens, it is usually kids.  There also doesn't seem to be a very large gang influence in the area, so that's out.

It's easy to say that both parties played some part in the tragic event.  Isn't that true for nearly everything that is like this?  However, at the end of the day, adults are supposed to be a bit more responsible and neighborhood watch volunteers should not conduct themselves as if they and they alone are going to take a bite out of crime in their neighborhood.

There are still far too many inaccuracies to Zimmerman's claims to make what he did legit.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 4:04:53 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Honestly, I don't think race had much to do with this. He was dressed the way the majority of teenage boys dress these days. I think that George Zimmerman, who want to be a police officer, but never passed the test or was accepted in the academy (forget where I read that) was determined to be the most diligent neighborhood watch "captain" ever. I think he was over zealous and determined to become a "hero" however he could.

I think that's probably pretty much on the mark. And given that Trayvon appears to have confronted him in a challenging way, there requires only to add testosterone, shake well, and serve.

K.


Since Zimmerman was stalking Martin at night while armed, if Martin felt threatened by the stalker he was legally justified in using force against Zimmerman.

And since all the evidence points to Zimmerman starting the confrontation, ( If Zimmerman wasn't looking for trouble, why arm himself and hunt after Trayvon Martin in the first place? ) by default the right of self-defense is Martins UNTIL Zimmerman can prove otherwise.

DO NOT STALK STRANGERS AT NIGHT. They have the legal right to defend themselves from your stalking.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/29/2012 4:06:45 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 4:32:27 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Honestly, I don't think race had much to do with this. He was dressed the way the majority of teenage boys dress these days. I think that George Zimmerman, who want to be a police officer, but never passed the test or was accepted in the academy (forget where I read that) was determined to be the most diligent neighborhood watch "captain" ever. I think he was over zealous and determined to become a "hero" however he could.

I think that's probably pretty much on the mark. And given that Trayvon appears to have confronted him in a challenging way, there requires only to add testosterone, shake well, and serve.

K.


Since Zimmerman was stalking Martin at night while armed, if Martin felt threatened by the stalker he was legally justified in using force against Zimmerman.

And since all the evidence points to Zimmerman starting the confrontation, ( If Zimmerman wasn't looking for trouble, why arm himself and hunt after Trayvon Martin in the first place? ) by default the right of self-defense is Martins UNTIL Zimmerman can prove otherwise.

DO NOT STALK STRANGERS AT NIGHT. They have the legal right to defend themselves from your stalking.


Ok, I've pretty much ignored your posts because while it is admirable that you stand by your beliefs, your presentation is just annoying and arrogant.

Zimmerman was not "stalking" Martin.  You have been spouting off all about Florida Criminal Code (which you really aren't able to fully grasp anyway), but do you even know what stalking is?  The difference between following, tailing, chasing and stalking?

The legal definition of stalking can not be met by following someone ONE time.

Please if you are going to continue to argue everything everyone says like an ADD child who hasn't gotten his ritalin, could you at least get an understanding of the vocabulary you are going to use?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 4:38:59 PM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
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Status: offline 		"Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head."

- Officer Timothy Smith in his police report

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 5:28:33 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Confronting somebody who's been following you about rather than leading them to your home is bad judgement?

That's a false dilemma. Yes, confronting them is probably bad judgment. But "leading them to your home" it not the only alternative. And if you do confront them, and discover that their concern is what reason you have for being there, refusing to answer them would be your second bad judgment.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/29/2012 5:31:29 PM >

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 5:33:49 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

can see nothing but a racist who hunted down and killed a black youth like an animal


Isn't that motive just as plausible as Zimmerman's story? In fact there's a lot more facts to support this hypothesis than any other.

What really sells me on the premeditation aspect is Zimmerman's 9-1-1 call, where he says the "They always get away" line.

He wasn't going to let Martin get away. All he wanted was for Martin to stop and answer to the cops, and Martin wouldn't listen.

And when Zimmerman tried to make Martin stop, and wait, things got out of hand.

Zimmerman had to make him stop, and Martin fought back. And he was getting away.

In Zimmerman's mind, this is all Martin's fault - because he wouldn't stop, because he wouldn't listen, because he was going to get away. And Zimmerman's entire story is constructed to get everyone to buy into that narrative.


I don't think this was a "hate crime" in the same way as a burning cross is. I think it's more a combination of casual racism, machismo, and idiocy combined with access to too much firepower and free time.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 5:38:27 PM   
Kirata


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It's really disgusting to see you use the word "facts" in your posts. You wouldn't know one if it bit you.

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 5:41:19 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Fact 1: George Zimmerman, while armed with a Kel-Tec 9mm handgun, expresses frustration that "they always get away" before starting to hunt Trayvon Martin.

Fact 2: Travyon Martin is dead.

Fact 3: George Zimmerman killed him.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 5:42:00 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

"Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head."

- Officer Timothy Smith in his police report


Now that is very interesting.

So how did he pull the gun with the kid beating on him? (If he was trying to defend himself it would make it hard. But not impossible)

What happened once he pulled the gun? Did the kid back off him upon seeing it or try and wrestle it out of his hands? ( now most people would take off once they see a gun unless they don't have a chance of getting away)

What was zimmermans position when he pulled the trigger? Was he still underneath treyvon when he fired? (One witness says they saw zimmerman standing over the kid after the shot)

And right now I'm trying to picture the frame of mind you have to be in to shoot a kid, stand over him and then to put the gun into your waistband. Most people would drop the gun after something like that. And the cops arrived shortly after and he had it in his waist.

And after watching the video of him at the precinct, he seemed to be pretty clear-headed. According to the report he had blood coming from his nose and the back of his head. It's likely since the cop in the video did seem to examine his head for a few seconds. But none of those seemed anywhere near life-threatening. It's starting to look like a guy who either couldn't or simply wouldn't take an ass-whipping.

My guess is if he had not have been armed he would have stayed in that car.

< Message edited by blacksword404 -- 3/29/2012 5:49:27 PM >

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(in reply to Truthiness)
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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 5:54:04 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

So how did he pull the gun with the kid beating on him? (If he was trying to defend himself it would make it hard. But not impossible)

What happened once he pulled the gun? Did the kid back off him upon seeing it or try and wrestle it out of his hands? ( now most people would take off once they see a gun unless they don't have a chance of getting away)

According to him, he didn't. His claim is that Trayvon went for his gun, and they struggled over it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

What was zimmermans position when he pulled the trigger? Was he still underneath treyvon when he fired? (One witness says they saw zimmerman standing over the kid after the shot)

The question was raised earlier as to whether or not Trayvon's hoodie showed a gunshot residue pattern consistent with Zimmerman's claim. We don't know. That information hasn't been released.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

My guess is if he had not have been armed he would have stayed in that car.

I wouldn't argue against that one.

K.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 5:55:11 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Zimmerman was not "stalking" Martin.  You have been spouting off all about Florida Criminal Code (which you really aren't able to fully grasp anyway), but do you even know what stalking is?  The difference between following, tailing, chasing and stalking?

The legal definition of stalking can not be met by following someone ONE time.


I don't think that definition of 'stalking' matters much, LL. The original, and more important, definition - before the legal bods got hold of the word and 'took it as their own' (here, as well as your side of the pond) related to animals. 'Stalking' was, and still is, usually applied to predatory animals pursuing their prey. It could easily be seen to fit re Zimmerman's following of Martin.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 3/29/2012 6:21:15 PM >

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 6:07:16 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Zimmerman was not "stalking" Martin.  ... The legal definition of stalking can not be met by following someone ONE time.



A very good point.

Let's say, "George Zimmerman HUNTED Trayvon Martin" instead. It's much more accurate.

hunt/hənt/

Verb: Pursue and kill

Noun: An act of hunting

Synonyms:
verb. chase - pursue - shoot
noun. chase - hunting - shooting - shoot - search

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/29/2012 6:08:21 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 6:20:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Zimmerman was not "stalking" Martin.  ... The legal definition of stalking can not be met by following someone ONE time.



A very good point.

Let's say, "George Zimmerman HUNTED Trayvon Martin" instead. It's much more accurate.

hunt/hənt/

Verb: Pursue and kill

Noun: An act of hunting

Synonyms:
verb. chase - pursue - shoot
noun. chase - hunting - shooting - shoot - search


Well . . . Some chunky bloke, 70 pounds bigger than me, following me with a gun; older, presumably more street-savvy . . . and, say I'm stoned (which makes most people less aggressive but more nervy, in my experience) . . . .the word 'stalking', definitely; the word 'hunting', maybe, too.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 6:24:06 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Let's say, "George Zimmerman HUNTED Trayvon Martin" instead. It's much more accurate.

Well, unh, no... he'd already found him. I'd say he was following him.

(Radical, I know.)

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 6:38:20 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		He was pursuing the kid......hoping to capture,detain,close ground,confront him.

"these ass-holes always get away"

George`s words........ that betray what he was doing and what his intent was.

Then there`s a dead body and George is holding the smoking gun.

Then there`s a steady stream of bullshit flowing from him.

And we start to see that...........as his bullshit stories unravel.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/29/2012 6:39:02 PM >

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 6:48:52 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I mentioned it before, but to amplify your sentiments. The "These assholes always get away." thing is really what it all revolves around.

Zimmerman decided that Trayvon Martin WAS NOT GOING TO GET AWAY. So he hunted after him, found him and....

Trayvon Martin didn't get away, did he?

I think THAT is the delay with the state charges. THAT is premeditation. Murder 1. Zimmerman, have a seat right here on Old Sparky. And the prosecutors looking at it now are thinking, "we could go for the slam-dunk manslaughter charge, but if we do our homework, we could execute Zimmerman for murder" Of course, the rest is up to a Jury, but I understand their desire to cross every T going forward.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 60
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