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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:35:22 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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In the course I taught, most of the instructors (including me) told our students never to make a statement to the police, not even to speak to them other than to request an attorney.
As a matter of fact, we also told them to get names and addresses/numbers of witnesses, and to give the list to their attorney, not to the cops.
I don't think you'll find many attorneys who disagree with either piece of advice.
Given that you seem to believe the cops are at best incompetent, and probably corrupt racists on top of that, why exactly do you think Zimmerman, himself a minority, should trust them?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 81

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:44:55 AM

Truthiness

Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh, btw...

SANFORD, Fl.a -
Officials have released the full surveillance video on Thursday showing George Zimmerman at the Sanford police station, a little more than 30 minutes after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

Just so you know I wasn't making the 4 hours up:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/6116/george-zimmerman-police-video-shows-no-blood-4-hours-after-trayvon-martin-killing/featured_writer
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc-tv/46894787/#46894787

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 82

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:56:57 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

but it's not normal police procedure.

No, I don't think that would be SOP many places, but he lived in the area, the cops knew they had to have the clothes, maybe a detective was playing "good cop"....
I don't know where Trayvon was hit, but from Z's account, a .9mm (hollowpoint?), probably to the gut, pointblank... it seems to me he should have looked like he spent a shift at an abattoir.

I checked the paper. According to the AP article, the time stamp at the beginning of the video was 7:52 PM. This is approximately 30 minutes after the shooting. IMO, that isn't sufficient time to do on site questioning, be taken home, clean up, change clothes, get back in the car and get to the police station.
He also supposedly had a broken nose and scalp lacerations that needed stitches. Both of those type injuries bleed like a stuck pig.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 83

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:58:10 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh, btw...

SANFORD, Fl.a -
Officials have released the full surveillance video on Thursday showing George Zimmerman at the Sanford police station, a little more than 30 minutes after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

Just so you know I wasn't making the 4 hours up:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/6116/george-zimmerman-police-video-shows-no-blood-4-hours-after-trayvon-martin-killing/featured_writer
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc-tv/46894787/#46894787

I saw the same article you did and I was wondering how it could take that long.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Truthiness)

Post #: 84

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 7:01:39 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
He also supposedly had a broken nose and scalp lacerations that needed stitches. Both of those type injuries bleed like a stuck pig.

In fact, a lot of self defence courses advise to try and cut the scalp, as blood in the face might dissuade somebody from beating the shit out of you, don't they?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 85

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 7:05:41 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
He also supposedly had a broken nose and scalp lacerations that needed stitches. Both of those type injuries bleed like a stuck pig.

In fact, a lot of self defence courses advise to try and cut the scalp, as blood in the face might dissuade somebody from beating the shit out of you, don't they?

It's the blood flowing into the eyes that makes it hard to see. If your opponent can't see you, it makes it a lot easier to get the hell outa Dodge. I've also heard that the Samurai would also try to cause scalp cuts for the same reason. If their opponent couldn't see well, it was easier to close the deal so to speak.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 86

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 7:14:57 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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Yeah, there's definitely some problems with the timeline.
The original stories said 4 hours?
I'm going to go with a bad timestamp for now... Occam's Razor

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 87

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 7:18:05 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

The question was raised earlier as to whether or not Trayvon's hoodie showed a gunshot residue pattern consistent with Zimmerman's claim. We don't know. That information hasn't been released.

Kirata, I want to see the autopsy report.

The angle of the bullet wound, powder burns, the presence of Zimmermans blood on his hands... there should be a wealth of evidence in the report. And the only thing that makes sense to me is that the report itself, and the contemporaneous observations of officers on the scene, corroborate Zimmerman's story else he would have long since been arrested.

The officer that questioned him is on record as wanting to arrest him for manslaughter. He was overruled by the DA at about 11PM on a Sunday evening.

Do you thing it is a pure coincidence that Zimmerman's dad is a retired judge and the DA leans on the detective to not place charges?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 88

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 7:26:21 AM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I'm going to go with a bad timestamp for now... Occam's Razor

bad time stamp... rofl

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 89

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 7:28:57 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I'm going to go with a bad timestamp for now... Occam's Razor

bad time stamp... rofl

Bad journalism is a lot more common than bad time stamps on police equipment.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 90

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 7:41:40 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Do you thing it is a pure coincidence that Zimmerman's dad is a retired judge and the DA leans on the detective to not place charges?

I saw the dad described as (if I remember correctly) a "Supreme Court Magistrate Judge". Made no sense at all to me; but I don't think this guy is on a par with, say, Douglas. I have questions about this timeline, too. The DA evidently squashed the arrest the same night as the killing. Was there time for Z to call his dad, the dad to make the calls necessary to find the proper DA, get her home number, call her, and for her to come down to kill the arrest?
I have no idea, really. Maybe, but it seems a stretch.
As does everything with this case.
Assuming there was time, how much influence does Judge Zimmerman have in Florida? Does he have a combination of legal chops and collegial presence sufficient to prevail upon the DA to delay arrest until a more complete investigation can be done? Can he persuade her to wait until the autopsy results come in? A week? Two? I don't know, of course; but "maybe" seems like a reasonable response.
Does he have the means to delay for a month or more a serious, strong manslaughter case? Here the reasonable answer seems more like: "almost certainly not".

The previous arrest of George for "assaulting a police officer" or somesuch? I can easily imagine the judge having a hand there, but I think he would have to route it through the police. Judge Z contacts an old police buddy, asks the friend to enjoy a couple days of Florida sun on him. The cop goes to Florida, makes an entreaty to the arresting officer in Florida, asks him to reconsider, tells the guy what he needs to hear. The Florida officer tells the DA he's reconsidered the events of the night in question, and that while he didn't lie about the facts... well, after he cooled down he can see that maybe he egged it on a little, certainly feels guilty about letting it get outta hand. DA says, well, I don't have too much time or resources invested in it...

But a retired out of state "Supreme Court Magistrate Judge" getting a murder charge squashed indefinitely? I don't really see that.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 91

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 7:43:54 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Bad journalism is a lot more common than bad time stamps on police equipment.

I wouldn't really know.
But that would be true if half the timestamps in America were off

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 92

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 8:57:30 AM

itsSIRtou

Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline

some of u dont seem to understand WHY this has become the "circus" it has been...

The deep south has been a bastile of racial violence of this type where whites allways found SOME excuse for killing Blacks and getting away with it. The people of the area are simply fed up with it. Lets be real here, if there wasnt the NATIONAL outcry about this,... zimmerman would be walking the beat he killed a child on without a care in the world. The additional fact he's a son of a LOCAL judge makes the treatment of this incident well beyond suspect.

WHY? Because many Blacks in the south can point to a member of their family who was a victim of the racial violence of the not-distant-enough past. And they see it starting all over again.... starting with an unarmed Black teen and a "stand your ground" law they feel that if the opposite were true, that EVEN with him having a judge for a relative, if the shooter was Black, he would never of been allowed to walk out of the jail and go home, much less go hide. - he'd be in jail right now still. And that law that has zimmerman out would even then, not be equally applied, he would be convicted of SOME form of homicide in the end.

And for a change, the "circus" that comprises most of the country feels Much the same way.

The man doesnt have nearly the amount of damage He's claiming...not even close, ....nothing on his clothes, his skin, his head....nothing. Ive had My nose broken several times.... I know what the damage should be,... he's got nothing.

Most of u who keep wanting to hold back "pre-judgement" or lament this being a "circus" do not have that track record of history. And are not likely to ever have it to worry about. u be treated like an animal for even a little bit and see what u feel like when the shit hits a member of ur people.... again.

_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 93

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 10:51:00 AM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-case-video-zimmerman-16024564

Judge for yourself. IF Martin and Zimmerman did get in a fight, do Zimmerman's injuries support his claim of being in immediate danger of Great Bodily Harm ( in the specific legal context ) or Death?

I did. But I waited until after the close up stills were available. He has a bloody knot about quarter size on the back of his head. His nose looks broken.

What? You mean you did not wait for the clear close-ups and the facts? I am surprised. Not like you.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 3/30/2012 10:52:26 AM >

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 94

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 10:55:54 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-case-video-zimmerman-16024564

Judge for yourself. IF Martin and Zimmerman did get in a fight, do Zimmerman's injuries support his claim of being in immediate danger of Great Bodily Harm ( in the specific legal context ) or Death?

His nose looks broken.

What do you base that on? I don't know if you've ever been in the same room with a broken nose but they bleed profusely. I've had a few, caused a few and seen even more. Where's the blood? the video was taken about 30 mins after the shooting. If he had a broken nose and scalp lacerations (both of which bleed like the proverbial stuck pig), his shirt would look like he had just finished a shift at the slaughterhouse.

As for the pic with the lump on his head, that's out of a Brit tabloid. I'm really careful about quoting them. They have a habit of retouching photos and making things up. I've been burned more than once quoting them.

If there was any blood, the cops would be wearing gloves as per SOP.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 3/30/2012 10:58:59 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 95

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 11:07:15 AM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

some of u dont seem to understand WHY this has become the "circus" it has been...

The deep south has been a bastile of racial violence of this type where whites allways found SOME excuse for killing Blacks and getting away with it. The people of the area are simply fed up with it. Lets be real here, if there wasnt the NATIONAL outcry about this,... zimmerman would be walking the beat he killed a child on without a care in the world. The additional fact he's a son of a LOCAL judge makes the treatment of this incident well beyond suspect.

WHY? Because many Blacks in the south can point to a member of their family who was a victim of the racial violence of the not-distant-enough past. And they see it starting all over again.... starting with an unarmed Black teen and a "stand your ground" law they feel that if the opposite were true, that EVEN with him having a judge for a relative, if the shooter was Black, he would never of been allowed to walk out of the jail and go home, much less go hide. - he'd be in jail right now still. And that law that has zimmerman out would even then, not be equally applied, he would be convicted of SOME form of homicide in the end.

And for a change, the "circus" that comprises most of the country feels Much the same way.

The man doesnt have nearly the amount of damage He's claiming...not even close, ....nothing on his clothes, his skin, his head....nothing. Ive had My nose broken several times.... I know what the damage should be,... he's got nothing.

Most of u who keep wanting to hold back "pre-judgement" or lament this being a "circus" do not have that track record of history. And are not likely to ever have it to worry about. u be treated like an animal for even a little bit and see what u feel like when the shit hits a member of ur people.... again.

Your comments while well taken and written are opinion. The facts are this is a "circus" because Al Sharpton and Jessie (love child) Jackson and the major media and others are making judgements without facts and doing so in a very media focused way and intentionallyi making this a crazy drama a "circus" and also risking additional conflicts and deaths as a result of stirring up racial confict. While this is going on it is also a fact the authorities continue to do the job they are supposed to do in the background.

I can remember avoiding certain hallways in my high school because it was too dangerous to travel as a white student, in the south. Racial violence cuts both ways my friend in the South, in all parts of the world. I was a victum of Black violence to Whites and that was in the late 60s. So. such racially focused comments while generally real to you does not have a place here and now when discussing a non-white on Black or vice versa incident still under investigation.

Why do you suggest it is otherwise?

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to itsSIRtou)

Post #: 96

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 12:24:32 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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I've read that Zimmerman told the police that, during their fight, Trayvon went for his (that is, Zimmerman's) gun after making a verbal death threat.
That would obviously obviate any need for physical injuries as a justification for the use of deadly force.
Remember that the burden of proof is on the state.
Zimmerman does not have to prove his narrative.
The police have to disprove it.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 97

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 12:26:28 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I've read that Zimmerman told the police that, during their fight, Trayvon went for his (that is, Zimmerman's) gun after making a verbal death threat.

How did he know Zimmerman was carrying a gun?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 98

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 12:38:46 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I've read that Zimmerman told the police that, during their fight, Trayvon went for his (that is, Zimmerman's) gun after making a verbal death threat.

How did he know Zimmerman was carrying a gun?

The prevailing theory of the "Zimmerman was justified" group is that during the fight, his jacket came open and the firearm became visible. If that is true, Zimmerman fucked up by the numbers. Maybe I had a better CC instructor than he did but I was told that when you suspect a problem is going to arise, you never allow the assailant within 2 meters without being ready to fire. Zimmerman should have either had the weapon ready well ahead of time or he shouldn't have carried it. He had plenty of room to draw and hold Martin at a range of 15-20 feet. When an assailant gets within arms length, almost all of your advantage is now gone.
Your most important weapon is your brain. Unfortunately, some folks don't use it.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 99

RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 12:42:06 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

I know just how flimsy and farcical that story looks, Hill: that was one of them rhetorical questions, dig?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 100

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