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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 6:53:38 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Zimmerman was not "stalking" Martin.  ... The legal definition of stalking can not be met by following someone ONE time.



A very good point.

Let's say, "George Zimmerman HUNTED Trayvon Martin" instead. It's much more accurate.

hunt/hənt/

Verb: Pursue and kill

Noun: An act of hunting

Synonyms:
verb. chase - pursue - shoot
noun. chase - hunting - shooting - shoot - search


I can't say that the stalked him with the intention to kill him. At least not until a whole lot of holes in time are filled in.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 7:07:24 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I don`t believe George intended to kill anyone in his whole life.

Who does?

That`s a moot point though when you chase,follow,pursue,go after,confront,approach,someone with a loaded gun and it goes off and you do end up killing.

I`m sure drunk drivers don`t mean to kill.....either.But when they get into a car and kill someone......who the fuck cares what their intentions were?







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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 7:10:33 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

I can't say that the stalked him with the intention to kill him.


Neither do I. George Zimmerman ONLY wanted Trayvon Martin to stop and wait for the police. But Trayvon Martin rightfully recognized that he DID NOT HAVE TO OBEY GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S INSTRUCTIONS TO STOP.

You can understand how frustrated George Zimmerman might have felt. ALL HE WANTS is Trayvon Martin to STOP AND WAIT FOR THE POLICE.

But Trayvon isn't obeying. WHAT DOES GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DO? How insistent does he get in his demands that Travyon Martin STOP AND WAIT FOR THE POLICE?

Now, from Trayvon Martin's POV, some random nutbag comes running after him screaming orders at him, with no lawful authority.

So, to begin with, we have Trayvon Martin with a reasonable fear for his safety, and George Zimmerman getting frustrated at Trayvon Martin's disobedience.

If Zimmerman's thinking "He's not obeying, I need to escalate along the continuum of force", ( didn't he have some phony-baloney-cop-wannabe-training? ) However can George Zimmerman force Trayvon Martin's obedience?

Oh, yeah. Zimmerman CHOSE ( against all neighborhood watch rules ) to arm himself before pursuing Trayvon Martin ( also against all neighborhood watch rules ).

Wannabe Cop Loser Fails. We have enough situations where REAL cops lose their shit and shoot people holding out their wallets. This scenario is pretty damned likely IMNSHO.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 8:05:41 PM   
playfulotter


Posts: 2195
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		I didn't read all the pages here but you don't look bad at all before you are shot to death...In fact, you can look rather fine...

< Message edited by playfulotter -- 3/29/2012 8:06:25 PM >

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 10:34:19 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

So how did he pull the gun with the kid beating on him? (If he was trying to defend himself it would make it hard. But not impossible)

What happened once he pulled the gun? Did the kid back off him upon seeing it or try and wrestle it out of his hands? ( now most people would take off once they see a gun unless they don't have a chance of getting away)

According to him, he didn't. His claim is that Trayvon went for his gun, and they struggled over it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

What was zimmermans position when he pulled the trigger? Was he still underneath treyvon when he fired? (One witness says they saw zimmerman standing over the kid after the shot)

The question was raised earlier as to whether or not Trayvon's hoodie showed a gunshot residue pattern consistent with Zimmerman's claim. We don't know. That information hasn't been released.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

My guess is if he had not have been armed he would have stayed in that car.

I wouldn't argue against that one.

K.


If the gun went off in a struggle, there would have been blood on Zimmerman in that video.  The lack of it is what makes everything so questionable.

It just that everything seems to point to the fact that Zimmerman did not have no other choice but to fire his weapon.  Even with an altercation, everything points to Zimmerman being able to be far enough away to point and shoot his gun without getting hit with blood spray and then reholstering his weapon.  That is seriously disturbing.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 10:36:11 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Zimmerman was not "stalking" Martin.  You have been spouting off all about Florida Criminal Code (which you really aren't able to fully grasp anyway), but do you even know what stalking is?  The difference between following, tailing, chasing and stalking?

The legal definition of stalking can not be met by following someone ONE time.


I don't think that definition of 'stalking' matters much, LL. The original, and more important, definition - before the legal bods got hold of the word and 'took it as their own' (here, as well as your side of the pond) related to animals. 'Stalking' was, and still is, usually applied to predatory animals pursuing their prey. It could easily be seen to fit re Zimmerman's following of Martin.


Actually my point is that fargle goes out of his way to find the most inflammatory words possible to try to get his point across.  It certainly doesn't strengthen his credibility, his position or anything else.  As I said, it looks like a kid with ADD who has gone without their Ritalin for a couple of days.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 10:59:53 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		One of the bottom lines is this. Zimmerman Fucked up BY THE NUMBERS. Maybe I had a better concealed carry instructor than he did but it was stressed that in a conflict you NEVER allow the assailant to close to within 2 meters. Zimmerman obviously did. At that range, the advantage a firearm gives you is about nullified.

Had I at age 18-35 or so been in Martins shoes, I would have done an E & E. ( I lived in a high crime urban environment at the time). he did the same apparently. Had I been cornered, I would have done what I could to neutralize the threat. If Zimmerman had not had his gun out, he would have died. There is no doubt.

I had interesting sparring/workout partners and they taught me interesting techniques. I feel in that situation, I would have been justified in claiming self defense.

It is my opinion (only an opinion OK) that Zimmerman was the initial agressor and he initiated the conflict by pursuing.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 3/29/2012 11:00:23 PM >

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/29/2012 11:35:23 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

More of your usual bullshit...

My position from the start has been that bad judgment on both sides created this tragedy. I'm sorry you feel that's bullshit, and that you choose instead to defend this out-of-control circus of paranoid hatred and escalating hysteria that can see nothing but a racist who hunted down and killed a black youth like an animal. In my opinion, your choice and your insults say more about you than about me. But at least now our positions are clear.

K.

And my position from the start has been that when a "tragedy" such as this occurs someone needs to answer,in a court of law,as to just how this "tragedy" played out.
Now in most cases that someone will be.and I guess this is because it's easier this way,the guy with the gun standing over the dead body

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 5:05:00 AM   
farglebargle


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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


Actually my point is that fargle goes out of his way to find the most inflammatory words possible to try to get his point across.  It certainly doesn't strengthen his credibility, his position or anything else.  As I said, it looks like a kid with ADD who has gone without their Ritalin for a couple of days.


1) I haven't used ritalin since the 70's, my last 'pharmaceutical script' for it was back in the early 80's, and I've been using a combination of Cognitive Behaviour Threapy and smoking pot daily to work around the little ADHD issues.

But thanks for your concern.


2) While you might disprove of my word choice because they're inflammatory, **I DARE YOU** to provide examples where I am FACTUALLY INCORRECT in my assertions. Being able to understand the point is a required skill for graduating from the kid's table.

My credibility and position are based on FACTS. Not what words YOU find appropriate. Sorry that it's not all about you.

The term HUNT perfectly describes George Zimmerman's actions. Deal with the reality.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/30/2012 5:08:33 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 5:25:04 AM   
Truthiness


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Joined: 11/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


If the gun went off in a struggle, there would have been blood on Zimmerman in that video.  The lack of it is what makes everything so questionable.


Maybe, and I kinda speak from experience here. That video was 4 hours after the shooting according to a news report I'd read (MSNBC IIRC).

I was caught up once in a self defense issue before. No fatalities, but a lot of blood from the steak knife I used to keep a guy twice my size away. I contacted the police, they took me to the station for a couple hours for questioning, I gave them the info to track the guy down, etc.

I was allowed to get pretty well cleaned up before I reached the station though...enough that the remaining blood probably wouldn't have shown up in any similar video.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 5:32:17 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Enough that blood would not show up on a grey shirt? Sorry, not buying that.

Oh, btw...

SANFORD, Fl.a -
Officials have released the full surveillance video on Thursday showing George Zimmerman at the Sanford police station, a little more than 30 minutes after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Sanford-police-release-full-video-of-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/9738686/-/wp6xh4z/-/index.html

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 3/30/2012 5:37:05 AM >

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:10:24 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

smoking pot daily to work around the little ADHD issues


Explains two things at once.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:13:16 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

The question was raised earlier as to whether or not Trayvon's hoodie showed a gunshot residue pattern consistent with Zimmerman's claim. We don't know. That information hasn't been released.


Kirata, I want to see the autopsy report.

The angle of the bullet wound, powder burns, the presence of Zimmermans blood on his hands... there should be a wealth of evidence in the report. And the only thing that makes sense to me is that the report itself, and the contemporaneous observations of officers on the scene, corroborate Zimmerman's story else he would have long since been arrested.

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:18:28 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

smoking pot daily to work around the little ADHD issues


Explains two things at once.


Ad hominum all you want if it makes you feel better about your life.

It's all you got since you're unable to argue against the actual facts I provide.

I do better stoned than you do cold sober apparently. So... Laugh if up...

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/30/2012 6:19:33 AM >

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:19:22 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Ad hominem? Those ARE the actual facts you provided.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:19:32 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

If the gun went off in a struggle, there would have been blood on Zimmerman in that video.  The lack of it is what makes everything so questionable.


It's very difficult to imagine a pointblank shooting with a 9mm that doesn't leave blood on the shooter, especially if the shooter is "pinned" underneath the person shot.
Yet, as I said in a previous post, I consider it nonsensical to believe the evidence does anything but corroborate Zimmerman's narrative. Conundrum?
Nah. I'll entertain wagers the police took Zimmerman to his home on their way to the station, watched him change clothes, and secured the bloody clothes as evidence.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:20:37 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

If the gun went off in a struggle, there would have been blood on Zimmerman in that video.  The lack of it is what makes everything so questionable.


It's very difficult to imagine a pointblank shooting with a 9mm that doesn't leave blood on the shooter, especially if the shooter is "pinned" underneath the person shot.
Yet, as I said in a previous post, I consider it nonsensical to believe the evidence does anything but corroborate Zimmerman's narrative. Conundrum?
Nah. I'll entertain wagers the police took Zimmerman to his home on their way to the station, watched him change clothes, and secured the bloody clothes as evidence.

That would be a possibility but it's not normal police procedure.

ETA wb Truckin, ltns.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:21:51 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ad hominem? Those ARE the actual facts you provided.


Yeah, you're attacking ME rather than my argument against Zimmerman's excuses for not telling his story to a Judge.

That's because you're UNABLE to counter my argument against Zimmerman's excuses.

Because there's nothing to argue against Zimmerman telling his story to a Judge.

Which makes me wonder, Why don't you want George Zimmerman to explain to a Judge why he killed Trayvon Martin?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:23:43 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		You do it to yourself, man. Always trying to slap down the waves.

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RE: How close to getting beaten to death does this guy ... - 3/30/2012 6:27:51 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

but it's not normal police procedure.


No, I don't think that would be SOP many places, but he lived in the area, the cops knew they had to have the clothes, maybe a detective was playing "good cop"....
I don't know where Trayvon was hit, but from Z's account, a .9mm (hollowpoint?), probably to the gut, pointblank... it seems to me he should have looked like he spent a shift at an abattoir.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 80
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