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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

SO, your morals are more important than any mere woman's? They're 'defective' and unable to do what's in their best interest?

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ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

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ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

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ORIGINAL: hlen5

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


You cannot be pro life if you advocate abortions even in a limited number of curcumstances

No one who is pro-choice is an ADVOCATE of abortions. They advocate the woman's right to choose.

You're wrong I Love Abortion: Implying Otherwise Accomplishes Nothing for Women's Rights by Jessica DelBalzo

That's a great article, and I completely agree with her. Thanks for the link!

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

.......Even the "Morning After" or "Plan B" pill is preferable to the brutality and heartless violence that some people continue to support.

I would fully support a program to provide free birth control (including "Morning After") to any woman (over the age of 16 without parental consent) who asks for it if people would stop be so damned blood thirsty and limit fetus-rending to 12 weeks or under.

We have methods that are far superior to the ones that were available to women almost 40 years ago. A woman doesn't need to miss two periods, go to the doctor, pee in a cup, wait three days and see if a rabbit dies. We have home tests that are as accurate as any test that a doctor can give. We don't need to allow abortions to happen so late-term.

..Let's let "choice" mean that women can avail themselves of methods that are not so psychologically debilitating (for so many) and let's put a stop to infanticide.

Peace and comfort,



Michael[/color]

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I should have mentioned that I was talking about abortion as a form of birth control. Rape/incest/mother's health are always exemptions in my book.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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ORIGINAL: Truthiness

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And again, these "I continue to believe that every life begins at conception" retards don't even know enough science to know that the egg and sperm are both alive BEFORE conception.

I think most understand that the sperm and egg are both alive before conception. They're just using the word "life" in a different context. I don't think I would be willing to say I was "alive" before I was conceived, but would say I was alive after. That's a distinct difference in meaning from a group of cells being alive.

But yeah...my mother, grandmother, aunt, two cousins, half sister, and fiance are all anti-abortion. Somehow I suspect it's not because they "hate women."

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ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

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ORIGINAL: Truthiness

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And again, these "I continue to believe that every life begins at conception" retards don't even know enough science to know that the egg and sperm are both alive BEFORE conception.

I think most understand that the sperm and egg are both alive before conception. They're just using the word "life" in a different context. I don't think I would be willing to say I was "alive" before I was conceived, but would say I was alive after. That's a distinct difference in meaning from a group of cells being alive.

But yeah...my mother, grandmother, aunt, two cousins, half sister, and fiance are all anti-abortion. Somehow I suspect it's not because they "hate women."

This is a statement so ignorant it defies understanding. In the debate, we refer to human life, not cellular. Is every menstruation a death worth mourning?

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ORIGINAL: Truthiness

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ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

But the "pro-life," set would rather women use coat hangers than go to an abortion clinic...

Ever notice how most pro-life people are also pro-death penalty and anti-welfare, anti-public education, anti-infrastructure, anti-government, anti-taxes, etc., etc. They don't want government to do anything except tell other people how to live their lives.


Actually I have a suspicion that the "pro-life" set would rather that particular use of coat hangers be as equally illegal as they want abortion clinics to be.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
the fetus has full pain response (except the back and top of the head) at 14 weeks.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
the fetus has full pain response (except the back and top of the head) at 14 weeks.

That's completely untrue.

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama

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I'm not against women having access to abortion where it is legal. I don't want to pay for everyone's abortion anymore than I want to pay for their groceries.

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You don't understand how taxes work?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/myths-and-facts

Myth - Health insurance reform will use my tax dollars to fund abortions.

Fact - No. The health insurance reform legislation maintains the status quo of no federal funding for abortions, except in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the woman is endangered. A federal judge recently wrote "the express language of the [Affordable Care Act] does not provide for taxpayer funded abortion. That is a fact and it is clear on its face."

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Try as you like to PRETEND you're in favor of freedom for woman, the truth is that you do NOT believe in UNFETTERED ACCESS TO FAMILY PLANNING SERVICES.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
the fetus has full pain response (except the back and top of the head) at 14 weeks.

That's completely untrue.

No. It isn't but, you keep telling yourself that.

Do a search for: "OB-GYNs defend Reagan" (1986, I think). Then, get back to me.

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In 1984 President Reagan said: "When the lives of the unborn are snuffed out, they often feel pain, pain that is long and agonizing." President Ronald Reagan to National Religious Broadcasters, New York Times, Jan. 31, 1984

This provoked a public reaction from pro-abortion circles and a response from an auspicious group of professors, including pain specialists and two past presidents of the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology.

They strongly backed Mr. Reagan and produced substantial documentation. Excerpts of their letter (2/13/84) to him included:

"Real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG (electrocardiogram) and fetal EEG (electroencephalogram) have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound. That the fetus responds to changes in light intensity within the womb, to heat, to cold, and to taste (by altering the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed by the fetus) has been exquisitely documented in the pioneering work of the late Sir William Lily — the father of fetology."

We state categorically that no finding of modern fetology invalidates the remarkable conclusion drawn after a lifetime of research by the late Professor Arnold Gesell of Yale University. In The Embryology of Behavior: The Beginnings of the Human Mind (1945, Harper Bros.), Dr. Gesell wrote, "and so by the close of the first trimester the fetus is a sentient, moving being. We need not speculate as to the nature of his psychic attributes, but we may assert that the organization of his psychosomatic self is well under way."

Mr. President, in drawing attention to the capability of the human fetus to feel pain, you stand on firmly established ground. Willke, J & B, Abortion: Questions & Answers, Hayes, 1991, Chpt. 10

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CONCLUSIONS

Numerous lines of evidence suggest that even in the human fetus, pain pathways as well as cortical and subcortical centers necessary for pain perception are well developed late in gestation, and the neurochemical systems now known to be associated with pain transmission and modulation are intact and functional. Physiologic responses to painful stimuli have been well documented in neonates of various gestational ages and are reflected in hormonal, metabolic, and cardiorespiratory changes similar to but greater than those observed in adult subjects. Other responses in newborn infants are suggestive of integrated emotional and behavioral responses to pain and are retained in memory long enough to modify subsequent behavior patterns.

None of the data cited herein tell us whether neonatal nociceptive activity and associated responses are experienced subjectively by the neonate as pain similar to that experienced by older children and adults. However, the evidence does show that marked nociceptive activity clearly constitutes a physiologic and perhaps even a psychological form of stress in premature or full-term neonates. Attenuation of the deleterious effects of pathologic neonatal stress responses by the use of various anesthetic techniques has now been demonstrated. Recent editorials addressing these issues have promulgated a wide range of opinions, without reviewing all the available evidence.197-201 The evidence summarized in this paper provides a physiologic rationale for evaluating the risks of sedation, analgesia, local anesthesia, or general anesthesia during invasive procedures in neonates and young infants. Like persons caring for patients of other ages, those caring for neonates must evaluate the risks and benefits of using analgesic and anesthetic techniques in individual patients. However, in decisions about the use of these techniques, current knowledge suggests that humane considerations should apply as forcefully to the care of neonates and young, nonverbal infants as they do to children and adults in similar painful and stressful situations.

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ORIGINAL: Truthiness

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Try as you like to PRETEND you're in favor of freedom for woman, the truth is that you do NOT believe in UNFETTERED ACCESS TO FAMILY PLANNING SERVICES.

family planning 
noun
1.
the concept or a program of limiting the size of families through the spacing or prevention of pregnancies, especially for economic reasons.
2.
(loosely) birth control.

I'm all for that. Therefore I am pro-family planning, and your "anti-family planning" bullshit is just that: bullshit.

Just because you want to make up your own definitions and try and apply them to viewpoints you don't like to try and spin them as a negative doesn't mean the more reasoned of us has to take your fabrications seriously.