RE: What's with this great divide?

RE: What's with this great divide? (Full Version)

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ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 7:12:03 AM)
I didn't realize you responded specifically to me, in any case I found you were getting good responses from others. Also, she specifically said a group of people were inferior, which you did not do (you merely implied it).

Bhruic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 7:53:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I didn't realize you responded specifically to me, in any case I found you were getting good responses from others. Also, she specifically said a group of people were inferior, which you did not do (you merely implied it). Oh... I figured you would have realized, since I quoted your specific challenge in my specific Answer to it. With 4 paddles, I didn't take you for someone who fires a shot, then runs away.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 10:58:48 AM)
Ah here we go; I remember now, I saw this response and say well dang. You have decided your opinion is empirical fact. Hard to argue with empirical fact, but I'll give it a shot. Let's review, shall we? You said this: My personal opinion is - and common sense dictates - that someone who explores both sides of a coin has more understanding of the whole coin than someone who only looks at one side. The I responded with this: In theory, that statement sounds great, most especially since I am a switch myself. In the reality of practical application, sorry, the people I know are far too complex and variable to make your hypothesis worthwhile. _____________________________ You came back with this: I'm not sure which hypothesis you are referring to? If I am expounding any particular single idea, it is that the broader ones spectrum of experience, the greater ones knowledge and understanding. I wouldn't call that a hypothesis though. It is borne out in human experience as an empirical fact. First you said it was your opinion, then you decided your opinion was "empirical fact." I happen to disagree when you are speaking of a broad spectrum of experience as it applies to humans. Why? B/c in my never humble opinion, everyone is a switch, IF a switch can be defined as someone with both dominant and submissive aspects to their personality. And since I think everyone has both sides to them, (just as everyone has a male side and a feminine side), to my mind everyone already possesses that broad spectrum of experience. Now, before I get majorly flamed for calling everyone switches, let me say, I would NOT define a switch that way. To be, a switch is a very dual natured person who forms variable responses to people based on if they perceive a person as being more dominant, or less. These responses may be primarily sexual, although (as in my case) that is not necessarily so, (I tend strongly toward being sexually submissive). Sexually, I far prefer a dominant male, and my primary relationships are with dominant males. But I also have (secondary) relationships with submissive males, that are power based, not sex based. To stir the pot just a tad more, and touch on what I said about people having both a male and female side, I consider myself bi. This is b/c I will have sex with a female I am attracted to. I specifically want to sexually dominant her. I do not want a relationship, just sex. (Note this is the polar opposite of how I react to sub males.) Although you certainly have the right to expound on your opinions, and to claim whatever you wish as an empirical fact to you, when you are talking about human behavior, your empirical fact and mine may be quite different. I think people are wired how they are wired. Can a person get some benefit from exploring the other side? That depends on the person. Not everyone needs to be the uber dom of the universe, and not everyone needs to be empirically right. Edited b/c my easy to read color scheme got all botched up.

Karmastic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 12:23:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic the reality is that me being here is a testament to NOT being afraid of my desires. What you need isn't something that can't be found here, and you won't achieve it verbally. You need to see a welt rise on a woman's body because you struck her, and to watch the fluid of arousal drip from her vaginal lips, and run slowly down her leg. You're not going to "get it" until you have experiences that primitive and visceral. i take your point, although I'm not a sadist. I have explored viscerally already. But I think it's wise to also learn verbally (esp if one wants to explore more), and that's what I'm doing. Your belief that I'm afraid of my desires was hilarious.

Bhruic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 12:25:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I happen to disagree when you are speaking of a broad spectrum of experience as it applies to humans. Why? B/c in my never humble opinion, everyone is a switch, IF a switch can be defined as someone with both dominant and submissive aspects to their personality. I understand your point now... but I don't think it relates directly to what I was trying to say. I understand what you are saying about everyone is a switch... the whole animus/anima thing, where we all have, to some degree, both sides of any given personality type within us. But I was specifically talking about experience, not personality potential. I have to say, I still hold to my position that the idea that experience leads to understanding is an empirical fact. And I think it applies to every situation in human experience. I cannot, myself, think of an example in any sphere where a broader spectrum of experience led to less understanding. Perhaps, in the example of domination and submission, the only greater understanding a Dom may receive from experiencing submission is to clarify for them that they do not like submission and are wholly Dominant. But I would still say that Dom has a deeper understanding of their Dominance than a Dom who, for whatever reason (and the reasons here are the really interesting point) would never consider looking at the other side of the coin. In truth, I have to admit that I DO - in fact - regard with some suspicion Doms AND subs who refuse, with almost religious zeal, to entertain anything but the stance they have chosen for themselves. I admit that probably comes out in my communications publicly, and I have no doubt that some would take umbrage to it. It is, however, just my opinion. I would say though - and I apply this to myself regularly - that when one decides to take a hard line on a contentious issue (especially on the topic of human interaction), it is worth looking inward and asking oneself why one is doing that. (And once again... I am addressing more than just the posts between us :)

Karmastic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 12:32:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt Ah here we go; I remember now, I saw this response and say well dang. You have decided your opinion is empirical fact. Hard to argue with empirical fact, but I'll give it a shot. Let's review, shall we? You said this: My personal opinion is - and common sense dictates - that someone who explores both sides of a coin has more understanding of the whole coin than someone who only looks at one side. The I responded with this: In theory, that statement sounds great, most especially since I am a switch myself. In the reality of practical application, sorry, the people I know are far too complex and variable to make your hypothesis worthwhile. _____________________________ You came back with this: I'm not sure which hypothesis you are referring to? If I am expounding any particular single idea, it is that the broader ones spectrum of experience, the greater ones knowledge and understanding. I wouldn't call that a hypothesis though. It is borne out in human experience as an empirical fact. First you said it was your opinion, then you decided your opinion was "empirical fact." I happen to disagree when you are speaking of a broad spectrum of experience as it applies to humans. Why? B/c in my never humble opinion, everyone is a switch, IF a switch can be defined as someone with both dominant and submissive aspects to their personality. And since I think everyone has both sides to them, (just as everyone has a male side and a feminine side), to my mind everyone already possesses that broad spectrum of experience. Now, before I get majorly flamed for calling everyone switches, let me say, I would NOT define a switch that way. To be, a switch is a very dual natured person who forms variable responses to people based on if they perceive a person as being more dominant, or less. These responses may be primarily sexual, although (as in my case) that is not necessarily so, (I tend strongly toward being sexually submissive). Sexually, I far prefer a dominant male, and my primary relationships are with dominant males. But I also have (secondary) relationships with submissive males, that are power based, not sex based. To stir the pot just a tad more, and touch on what I said about people having both a male and female side, I consider myself bi. This is b/c I will have sex with a female I am attracted to. I specifically want to sexually dominant her. I do not want a relationship, just sex. (Note this is the polar opposite of how I react to sub males.) Although you certainly have the right to expound on your opinions, and to claim whatever you wish as an empirical fact to you, when you are talking about human behavior, your empirical fact and mine may be quite different. I think people are wired how they are wired. Can a person get some benefit from exploring the other side? That depends on the person. Not everyone needs to be the uber dom of the universe, and not everyone needs to be empirically right. Edited b/c my easy to read color scheme got all botched up. if i may add my two cents here... i think both you guys are very intelligent, and are both right, just arguing apples and oranges. Bhruic stated a truism about sides of a coin and general statements about human learning. that doesn't conflict with your rebuttal about individualism dictating what's best for any individual. but if u guys wanna fight, lemmie grab some popcorn ;) ps edit: i think you're spot on re (paraphrasing) there being a spectrum that we all fall on, and we're not so static on where that falls, based on situation or whatever. e.g., it's silly for a dom to suggest he's never in the sub position at least in some aspect, unless he's the dictator of the world and controls every1 and everything. nor is a sub being a sub when they're caring for their children. it also makes me think twice when someone doesn't get that concept, that there are different sides to all of us, that come out in different situations, around different people, for all sorts of reasons. while it's totally foreign to me to want to switch and be a sub, i totally get that the switch is taking that other side to a greater degree than i am - more power to them and their partners for that. pss - as a dom, i would certainly not reject a switch who wanted to be my sub. my only trepidation would be that if we were to have a monogamous LTR relationship, i would be concerned that someday she would miss acting out the dom side of her.

Focus50 -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 2:48:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic i'm not trying to compete with you, and i am not keeping score. i'm simply trying to understand you, and noting i wasnt the only one (i hate mob rule anyway). if you need to win, then i surrender, so please try and get past that with me. Wtf? I don't need or desire to "win" anything here. You reinforced a point by citing a 3rd party's similar opinion to yours. The reasonable inference being that if two of you think 'X', then the one of me is more likely wrong. If it's such a chore to "get past" certain things, then A), don't go there and esp B), stop transferring/attributing those actions ("winning") to me. quote: taking what i said out of context, and now you're going down the gay argument route. It's not about "ethics". there's nothing unethical about a dom doing it, or not, if it's right for them. neither is there anything wrong with those who prefer a dom who hasnt subbed, cus that's right for what they want. Sheesh, again with the "gay".... Look, even if you don't personally advocate a dom should submit first (the OP is too long ago for me to recall... lol), I'm certain you said somewhere that you can at least see that action being valid or reasonable for those who do, no? So I asked you how far (submitting) is too far, IN YOUR OPINION. And not for the first time that I have asked you a direct question, no answer.... It doesn't have to be a gay experience to take one up the arse (lol), 'cause it doesn't have to be a dick. You call it "intel".... Intel from the sub's perspective - of taking something up the shit-um shute-um as one person being dominated by another might.... I'm asking because I DON'T KNOW and, until now, was never interested. Hell, I'm asking any dom/me who believes experiencing submission is a good idea - how far is too far? quote: good analogy, but you still go back to me repeating the words you used, as i try to understand you, and then you correcting me for using your own words... Yikes...! lol I'm correcting you for parroting my very words incorrectly?. I have no idea what to do with that.... Think I'll push the line that I'm just trying to have a discussion. For you, whether or not you do have r/l experience on these matters, rather than (apparently) repeating my own words, how about you ask that which you don't actually understand? I'd think the greater priority isn't understanding me so much as the very topic you started. I mean, you must have some opinion re a dom submitting - how far is too far? Focus.

Karmastic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 3:17:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic i'm not trying to compete with you, and i am not keeping score. i'm simply trying to understand you, and noting i wasnt the only one (i hate mob rule anyway). if you need to win, then i surrender, so please try and get past that with me. Wtf? I don't need or desire to "win" anything here. You reinforced a point by citing a 3rd party's similar opinion to yours. The reasonable inference being that if two of you think 'X', then the one of me is more likely wrong. If it's such a chore to "get past" certain things, then A), don't go there and esp B), stop transferring/attributing those actions ("winning") to me. quote: taking what i said out of context, and now you're going down the gay argument route. It's not about "ethics". there's nothing unethical about a dom doing it, or not, if it's right for them. neither is there anything wrong with those who prefer a dom who hasnt subbed, cus that's right for what they want. Sheesh, again with the "gay".... Look, even if you don't personally advocate a dom should submit first (the OP is too long ago for me to recall... lol), I'm certain you said somewhere that you can at least see that action being valid or reasonable for those who do, no? So I asked you how far (submitting) is too far, IN YOUR OPINION. And not for the first time that I have asked you a direct question, no answer.... It doesn't have to be a gay experience to take one up the arse (lol), 'cause it doesn't have to be a dick. You call it "intel".... Intel from the sub's perspective - of taking something up the shit-um shute-um as one person being dominated by another might.... I'm asking because I DON'T KNOW and, until now, was never interested. Hell, I'm asking any dom/me who believes experiencing submission is a good idea - how far is too far? quote: good analogy, but you still go back to me repeating the words you used, as i try to understand you, and then you correcting me for using your own words... Yikes...! lol I'm correcting you for parroting my very words incorrectly?. I have no idea what to do with that.... Think I'll push the line that I'm just trying to have a discussion. For you, whether or not you do have r/l experience on these matters, rather than (apparently) repeating my own words, how about you ask that which you don't actually understand? I'd think the greater priority isn't understanding me so much as the very topic you started. I mean, you must have some opinion re a dom submitting - how far is too far? Focus. quote: So I asked you how far (submitting) is too far, IN YOUR OPINION. And not for the first time that I have asked you a direct question, no answer.... It doesn't have to be a gay experience to take one up the arse (lol), 'cause it doesn't have to be a dick. You call it "intel".... Intel from the sub's perspective - of taking something up the shit-um shute-um as one person being dominated by another might.... I'm asking because I DON'T KNOW and, until now, was never interested. Hell, I'm asking any dom/me who believes experiencing submission is a good idea - how far is too far? okay, sorry dude, i didn't realize that was a direct question to me, about how far i would go myself. first, it's very foreign to me to sub, and i have no such desire. i would like to experiment with what it might be like for a day, like switch roles for a day. it might even be fun, and give me more ideas as a dom. i would certainly try any gear out on myself first, the best i could, but that's another thread. i have 100% confidence in myself that this will in no way make me second guess that i'm a dom. and it's silly to think there aren't other sides of us in other situations. unless you're a world dictator, you're not always a dom. we're not so stone age that we cant grasp or gain any benefit from at least trying to think of how a sub would think, by playing that role for a day (or how ANYONE else who's views are foreign to us thinks). of course you're not going to really be thinking like a sub cus you're not, and it's foreign to you (and me). but i go back to my original point - it sure as shit ain't gonna hurt a big strong confident dom. but that's only cus u asked - i'm not on a quest to perform this experiment, and i may never do it. all that said, i dont give a flying F how far or not someone else thinks they want to go. i say all the more power to them, if it rocks their boat. but i will not disparage them as corrupted, or polluted, or think anything less of them, or diss them as being any less of a real dom or sub. i dont think u meant to come off that way, but to me you did a bit. ps edit - it can be more than 1 experiement. and no, i wouldn't experiment with gay things cus i'm not into the male form. and how far i'd go regarding kink or bdsm, well, not much farther than i would take someone myself. hope that answered your question, thanks for your opinions.

Focus50 -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 3:33:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt This isn't the first time I've heard that switches are "inferior" and "can't make up their mind." I implied the latter in my first post - and rather wish I could have that back, now. Not my finest moment.... lol Based in MY personal experiences and observations, I have certain.... errrrr...., prejudices(?) about switches. One you already know; that they often present as the most domliest of all doms on internet discussion forums, esp when head to head with a male dom. Greggy (greg150) and Fire from bon.com spring immediately to mind. And me being one of those male doms, natch.... lol But r/l, and as I also posted in this thread, the switches I've known have only ever presented a submissive energy/vibe, to me. And in general discussions with them, all have said or implied that they'd prefer a dominant partner in an ideal world of choice. And there really isn't a lot where I live.... To me, and this is where personal ignorance from non-switch (or sub) wiring abounds, what I'd truly find confusing is how 2 switches would manage a personal D/s relationship. I've had such a relationship with one switch, and she was all sub in it - though inclined to be a little more bratty than other "pure" subs I've known. Lol, more confusion to me - bratty cuz she's switch or just an individual trait...!?! I guess what I'm saying is that while I do find much about switch wiring confusing, there is no 'inferior/superior in my rationale - in case it ever does present that way. I've never considered my subs to be inferior, either, as their/her submissiveness is responsible for 50% of the relationship's D/s power exchange. My girl is simply out-ranked - NOT the same thing as inferior, as that implies less worth.... Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 4:32:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic ps edit - it can be more than 1 experiement. and no, i wouldn't experiment with gay things cus i'm not into the male form. and how far i'd go regarding kink or bdsm, well, not much farther than i would take someone myself. hope that answered your question, thanks for your opinions. Nooooo; not the "gay" again...! My hypothetical went thusly: Hetero dom who's into anal sex also believes it ethical to experience submission, first. That'd be anal sex with his female sub. Now, the objective for the dom is submissive "intel", NOT gay - k? Is it really that hard to look past the obvious; that you can't get around being male, yourself, for the sake of this submissive intel? Is it gay, for example, for said male dom to trot off to a fem/dom and experience an anal probing with a finger/butt-plug/dildo/broken bottle/chainsaw/whatever as part of his intel? Hmmmm, the shivers going down my spine as I type.... lol Anyway, is my point that hard to grasp without the constant 'gay' derailment? ------------------------------------------------ All that said, I do have a submissive experience to relate.... (uh-ohhh) Quite a few years back and early one Sunday morning, the girl was feeling particularly frisky from the night before. I was still in bed and she was up to start brekky. While the jug was boiling, she was having fun shadow-sparring in the room with a crop I used to "join the (freckle) dots" on her butt that previous night. While wafting at imaginary targets, she was telling me all about what a great domme she'd make. Fine, I said, and discarded the covers and "offered up" my bare butt as she's normally expected to do. Suddenly her face was all doubt and reluctance.... "C'mon Mistress, show me what you've got", I said. She was bright red with embarrassment before managing to barely drop the business end of the crop on my butt. Obviously I wasn't impressed with her "effort".... On her second "strike", she almost managed a '1' on a pain scale of '10' but I let out an almighty yelp. It was like one of those cartoon scenes; the crop seemingly suspended mid-air in a circular dust cloud, the door swinging back and forth and her screams fading down the hallway. It took probably a full minute of me laughing my nuts off before she pushed a hesitant head around the door to see if all was well. Then we both laughed.... There, big bad Focus has subbed. Twas good for a laugh; that's about all I got out of it.... Focus.

JeffBC -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 5:06:18 PM)
~fast reply~ Again, just adding in a different viewpoint, I think it's important that my answers come from the standpoint of a 17 year long relationship. Carol has paid into the pot... richly... over a long period of time. How "far" I'd be willing to go for her is a whole heck of a lot different than that same answer for some random person. That same thing, I'm pretty sure, explains the TPE dynamic. How far she'd be willing to go for me at this point is not the same thing as what she'd do for some random guy she just met.

Karmastic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 5:13:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic ps edit - it can be more than 1 experiement. and no, i wouldn't experiment with gay things cus i'm not into the male form. and how far i'd go regarding kink or bdsm, well, not much farther than i would take someone myself. hope that answered your question, thanks for your opinions. Nooooo; not the "gay" again...! My hypothetical went thusly: Hetero dom who's into anal sex also believes it ethical to experience submission, first. That'd be anal sex with his female sub. Now, the objective for the dom is submissive "intel", NOT gay - k? Is it really that hard to look past the obvious; that you can't get around being male, yourself, for the sake of this submissive intel? Is it gay, for example, for said male dom to trot off to a fem/dom and experience an anal probing with a finger/butt-plug/dildo/broken bottle/chainsaw/whatever as part of his intel? Hmmmm, the shivers going down my spine as I type.... lol Anyway, is my point that hard to grasp without the constant 'gay' derailment? ------------------------------------------------ All that said, I do have a submissive experience to relate.... (uh-ohhh) Quite a few years back and early one Sunday morning, the girl was feeling particularly frisky from the night before. I was still in bed and she was up to start brekky. While the jug was boiling, she was having fun shadow-sparring in the room with a crop I used to "join the (freckle) dots" on her butt that previous night. While wafting at imaginary targets, she was telling me all about what a great domme she'd make. Fine, I said, and discarded the covers and "offered up" my bare butt as she's normally expected to do. Suddenly her face was all doubt and reluctance.... "C'mon Mistress, show me what you've got", I said. She was bright red with embarrassment before managing to barely drop the business end of the crop on my butt. Obviously I wasn't impressed with her "effort".... On her second "strike", she almost managed a '1' on a pain scale of '10' but I let out an almighty yelp. It was like one of those cartoon scenes; the crop seemingly suspended mid-air in a circular dust cloud, the door swinging back and forth and her screams fading down the hallway. It took probably a full minute of me laughing my nuts off before she pushed a hesitant head around the door to see if all was well. Then we both laughed.... There, big bad Focus has subbed. Twas good for a laugh; that's about all I got out of it.... Focus. yah, don't get lost in the gay thing either, that was just 1 of my boundaries, which u asked how far i'd go. i'd be hard pressed to take a butt plug, but just maybe for the right woman. glad to see you had a sub moment, it's all good.

subbyinlosangele -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 5:22:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic I posted this here because I think it applies to everyone, switches, doms, and subs, and all can give their own perspective. I think it's safe to say for any complimentary relationship, that playing the other role helps one understand it better, and compliment that role when playing it's opposite. Switches, I get that, and happen to agree. Then there's the other side that says how can you be the truest true blood dom or sub if you don't devote yourself to that role. Reminds me of Spartans and Ninja warriors, and certainly resonates with me. Where along these two extremes do you fall? Assuming it's one or the other, don't you see room for both? Is a switch really "better", or just more empathetic? Is a true blood dom or sub really any more or less devoted than a switch filling that role? Does experimenting or being flexible by offering to switch pollute one role? That view reminds me of a sleeping with the enemy perspective. My take on it - I used to wish I was bi-sexual, so that I could have twice as many options (and fun). But hairy bodies and cocks never turned me on. Now I sort of wish I was a switch. Sort of because I'm careful what I wish for. As Elvis Costello put it, what's so funny about peace, love and understanding? I am not sure what "divide" you think there is. I know people who fall all along the BDSM spectrum. I know lots of people who switch, or people who identify as domme or sub, but sometimes like to engage in activities that put them in the other role (like a domme who likes to be spanked). I know subs and dommes who have tried the other role just to see what its like. So, really, I am not sure who you think you are arguing against.

Karmastic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 6:31:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic I posted this here because I think it applies to everyone, switches, doms, and subs, and all can give their own perspective. I think it's safe to say for any complimentary relationship, that playing the other role helps one understand it better, and compliment that role when playing it's opposite. Switches, I get that, and happen to agree. Then there's the other side that says how can you be the truest true blood dom or sub if you don't devote yourself to that role. Reminds me of Spartans and Ninja warriors, and certainly resonates with me. Where along these two extremes do you fall? Assuming it's one or the other, don't you see room for both? Is a switch really "better", or just more empathetic? Is a true blood dom or sub really any more or less devoted than a switch filling that role? Does experimenting or being flexible by offering to switch pollute one role? That view reminds me of a sleeping with the enemy perspective. My take on it - I used to wish I was bi-sexual, so that I could have twice as many options (and fun). But hairy bodies and cocks never turned me on. Now I sort of wish I was a switch. Sort of because I'm careful what I wish for. As Elvis Costello put it, what's so funny about peace, love and understanding? I am not sure what "divide" you think there is. I know people who fall all along the BDSM spectrum. I know lots of people who switch, or people who identify as domme or sub, but sometimes like to engage in activities that put them in the other role (like a domme who likes to be spanked). I know subs and dommes who have tried the other role just to see what its like. So, really, I am not sure who you think you are arguing against. if you read some of the replies, you'll see what i mean.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/16/2012 7:05:57 PM)
quote: But I was specifically talking about experience, not personality potential. I have to say, I still hold to my position that the idea that experience leads to understanding is an empirical fact. And I think it applies to every situation in human experience. I cannot, myself, think of an example in any sphere where a broader spectrum of experience led to less understanding. Although again, in theory I agree with you, when you are talking about the variable of human behavior, human nature, and the human learning curve, well all things aren't equal, are they? I guess I don't like it when those kinds of blanket statements are made about human behavior, unless I am making them. :-)

crazyml -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/17/2012 9:27:08 AM)
Karmastic... Nope I don't think that "Playing" or "assuming" or "being" the other role helps one understand it better. See below... Bhruic: quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic My personal opinion is - and common sense dictates - that someone who explores both sides of a coin has more understanding of the whole coin than someone who only looks at one side. I'm pretty sure that this argument has had the arse properly kicked out of it already. Superficially your argument is attractive.... but it falls into fallacy because the coins are not the same. If I were to experience submission I'd be learning about the other side of "my" coin, not my partner's. It would teach me fuck all. [Ed to correct misspelling of Bhruic's nick, with apologies]

Karmastic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/17/2012 11:14:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Karmastic... Nope I don't think that "Playing" or "assuming" or "being" the other role helps one understand it better. See below... Bhruic: quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic My personal opinion is - and common sense dictates - that someone who explores both sides of a coin has more understanding of the whole coin than someone who only looks at one side. I'm pretty sure that this argument has had the arse properly kicked out of it already. Superficially your argument is attractive.... but it falls into fallacy because the coins are not the same. If I were to experience submission I'd be learning about the other side of "my" coin, not my partner's. It would teach me fuck all. [Ed to correct misspelling of Bhruic's nick, with apologies] quote: Focus50 yep, me and Focus50 already hashed that out pretty well, and disagreed with me saying it sure as shit couldn't hurt. of course you're dom and can't experience it like smeone who thinks like a sub would.

SailingBum -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/17/2012 11:29:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic I posted this here because I think it applies to everyone, switches, doms, and subs, and all can give their own perspective. I think it's safe to say for any complimentary relationship, that playing the other role helps one understand it better, and compliment that role when playing it's opposite. Switches, I get that, and happen to agree. Then there's the other side that says how can you be the truest true blood dom or sub if you don't devote yourself to that role. Reminds me of Spartans and Ninja warriors, and certainly resonates with me. Where along these two extremes do you fall? Assuming it's one or the other, don't you see room for both? Is a switch really "better", or just more empathetic? Is a true blood dom or sub really any more or less devoted than a switch filling that role? Does experimenting or being flexible by offering to switch pollute one role? That view reminds me of a sleeping with the enemy perspective. My take on it, your views are way to convoluted. Your suggesting by me becoming a sub it would help me understand it better. Uh Dude I really could give a flying pig what it's like to be submissive. You need to hit your RESET button as your not makin much sense BadOne

Karmastic -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/17/2012 12:41:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic I posted this here because I think it applies to everyone, switches, doms, and subs, and all can give their own perspective. I think it's safe to say for any complimentary relationship, that playing the other role helps one understand it better, and compliment that role when playing it's opposite. Switches, I get that, and happen to agree. Then there's the other side that says how can you be the truest true blood dom or sub if you don't devote yourself to that role. Reminds me of Spartans and Ninja warriors, and certainly resonates with me. Where along these two extremes do you fall? Assuming it's one or the other, don't you see room for both? Is a switch really "better", or just more empathetic? Is a true blood dom or sub really any more or less devoted than a switch filling that role? Does experimenting or being flexible by offering to switch pollute one role? That view reminds me of a sleeping with the enemy perspective. My take on it, your views are way to convoluted. Your suggesting by me becoming a sub it would help me understand it better. Uh Dude I really could give a flying pig what it's like to be submissive. You need to hit your RESET button as your not makin much sense BadOne quote: give a flying pig what it's like to be submissive you're basing it all on this... "I really could give a flying pig what it's like to be submissive" your powerful words speak for themselves, and i have nothing to add. thanks for your interesting take on it.

littlewonder -> RE: What's with this great divide? (4/17/2012 1:08:29 PM)
why should he care what it's like to be submissive? I'm submissive and I don't really care what it's like to be dominant. It's not my nature and not something I need to experience in life. I know it would not be me. Would you want to know what it's like to be a girl just because you're a guy dating a girl? I don't know about you but I have zero desire to know what it's like to be a guy. Would you want to know what it's like to be a fireman or policeman or IT administrator or anything you are not? Unless you want to one day possibly BE that, why would you care?

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