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RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 6:05:33 AM   
nequam


Posts: 20
Joined: 5/2/2012
Status: offline 		@ChatteParfaitt, i think the reason it's rampant online and not so much in the scene is simply because online you don't have to face a real person. A lot of people seem to forget there are real people on the other side of those computer screens. When at a community event, the rules of social engagement come into play and tone people down.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 6:07:30 AM   
SaintJohn


Posts: 15
Joined: 4/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You're new here, female, and your pic says you're sexy & cute


Are you sure about all that? The profile says otherwise, at least naturally.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 6:13:03 AM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
I have seen a fair amount of misogyny about the place ( weirdly, as much from bitter single sub males as from dominant men ), but I also think often it's just men trying to sound dominant or faux fetish philosophizing to ( unnecessarily ) justify their desires in a society that often equates male dominance with gender inequality. ( There's a similar phenomena in the whole "Female Supremacy" thing that pops up now and then on these boards. )

Myotherself probably said it best...

(in reply to Reikm)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 6:13:05 AM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You're new here, female, and your pic says you're sexy & cute


Are you sure about all that? The profile says otherwise, at least naturally.


What the hell does the gender someone was born as have to do with anything?

If someone identifies as female then they are female - point blank.

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation... I can find the way all by myself!

(in reply to SaintJohn)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 6:25:47 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I don't really see a lot of misogyny or misandry, no different than real life. Then again I like the whole objectification and beating to a pulp and all that so I guess for me what some view as misogyny, I view as hot.

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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 6:29:37 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		I do wish you would specify why you feel this way. I think it might allow us to answer you a little more specifically than just throwing darts at the dartboard in hopes something will stick.

But, I think misogyny exists in the world in general, and there are a certain group who will express these views and behave accordingly.

But BDSM does not equal misogyny. So there are Dominants out there who, regardless of what they do or say as part of consensual play, are not misogynistic. And I think this is a very important distinction.

My long-term Dominant partners have all been men who were the antithesis of misogyny outside the bedroom. They loved intelligent women, enjoyed working with women, were loving sons, grandsons, nephews, brothers.

Behind closed door we played at consensual games that if someone had just stumbled into could easily have been misinterpreted. But they were all consensual and enjoyed by both of us, and had nothing to do with how these men viewed or treated women generally in life.

If you are encountering true misogyny in your life it is because you are encountering misogynists. And misogynists come in all forms (vanilla, BDSM, etc.) But please understand that for a Dominant man, being involved in BDSM does not automatically make him a misogynist.

If we want to have a discussion about misogyny in society, I am all for that. If we want to discuss how some misogynists use BDSM to "excuse" their hatred and behavior, we can talk about that, too. But I cannot equate BDSM with misogyny.

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~ ftp

(in reply to Reikm)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 6:48:28 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I see a fair proportion of profiles that do the "all women are worthless fuckmeat" thing. They make me roll my eyes, but I don't see it as misogyny. I see it as guys who read far too much porn and think this is how submissive women want to be treated. Basically, they're idiots.


I'm going to disagree a little bit. A chunk of those guys say it because they have relationship issues and they can hide it behind a BDSM stance far more easily. (There's a whole group of submissives here for the same reason) There is more misogyny in D/s BDSM than in vanilla life, but not by huge amounts. But, I do think there's a lot more guys that don't have the ability to be intimate with their partner and they use BDSM D/s as an excuse or to justify it.


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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 7:49:38 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You're new here, female, and your pic says you're sexy & cute


Are you sure about all that? The profile says otherwise, at least naturally.



I was going to say I don't see that much hatred here, until this comment.

Beyond that, Focus is right, on the other side people frequently don't read profiles, just write to the pictures they find attractive.

However, overall I think most of the 'you are fuckmeat' stupidity comes from porn, it's the flip side of the submale lowly worm nonsense. And the people who write this shite have very little relationship experience or skills and truly believe that what they do in porn is what people really want.

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SaintJohn)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 8:07:16 AM   
ReMakeYou


Posts: 147
Joined: 1/20/2012
Status: offline 		SaintJohn caught what's probably the biggest issue. I've seen a lot of casual transphobia while looking around. It's a bit sloppy with language, but I can see the OP's point.

I see a lot of play misogyny/play misandry around, and I wouldn't be surprised if it started seeping into people's other interactions. (More misandry than misogyny, but that's largely on the gay side. Men seeking men don't give a toss about women. Women seeking women have many choice things to say about men.) I see it more in vanillaland when people deal with regular rejection.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 8:16:02 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Would I be transphobic if I added "identifies as" to "female" or would I be being precise?

(in reply to ReMakeYou)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 8:23:54 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I see a fair proportion of profiles that do the "all women are worthless fuckmeat" thing. They make me roll my eyes, but I don't see it as misogyny. I see it as guys who read far too much porn and think this is how submissive women want to be treated. Basically, they're idiots.


I'm going to disagree a little bit. A chunk of those guys say it because they have relationship issues and they can hide it behind a BDSM stance far more easily. (There's a whole group of submissives here for the same reason) There is more misogyny in D/s BDSM than in vanilla life, but not by huge amounts. But, I do think there's a lot more guys that don't have the ability to be intimate with their partner and they use BDSM D/s as an excuse or to justify it.



Good point OsideGirl. I particularly agree with the bolded part.


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There's nowt so queer as folk


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 8:28:11 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I actually don't think it's limited to guys, or even dominant persons.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 8:42:57 AM   
ReMakeYou


Posts: 147
Joined: 1/20/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Would I be transphobic if I added "identifies as" to "female" or would I be being precise?


Being a stickler for using just the right words turns language into a tortured pretzel, only to have to start the process all over again when language does what it naturally does and simplifies. Anybody who thinks otherwise is retarded*. I trust you're bright enough to know when it's contextually appropriate and when it's singling them out.

*(Because it's hip to say "I was being sarcastic!" when called out on douchebaggery on the internet, I'm qualifying upfront. I use this word to draw attention to the euphemism treadmill.)

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 8:56:37 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		I see it most with male submissives, personally. I see it some in dominants, but not as much.

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 9:03:59 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		I also think it's important to recognize the difference between enjoying a kink involving degradation/objectification and actual misogyny/sexism. Many people like to play with the ideas of partner value and role, but it's just how they get their kink on.

For example, others have mentioned the tone of findom profiles... I doubt all these women hate men. Rather, it is a kink that often involves (to the happiness of both the dom and the sub) a play on personal worth and service roles.

Speaking for myself, I prefer relationships where the sub is seen as worth less than me (and sometimes completely worthless), only valuable as much as they can serve me, are considered lowly and barely allowed to even kiss my feet as a greeting, not allowed to look me in the eyes, etc. I enjoy living the kink of female supremacy in regards to male subs/slaves and the mutual view shared that by virtue of being male they are less than me.

Do I hate men? No. Do I view someone in everday life to automatically be of less worth because they have a penis? No.

But I greatly enjoy relationships where this view/kink is in place and often advertise that desire/view as such.

< Message edited by RumpusParable -- 5/8/2012 9:05:34 AM >

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 9:14:59 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Not only that, but a lot of assholes here are pro-slavery and like to stick others in bondage and cages while subjecting them to corporal discipline.


(in reply to Reikm)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 10:10:28 AM   
Reikm


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/2/2012
Status: offline 		Well seeing as keeping my mouth shut and apologizing has done NOTHING to make this thread die ill explain.

I understand completely that the whole "your a worthless slut" routine can be stimulating to some. What im referring to is more of the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life" kinda stuff.

I mean really... thats not BDSM thats just straight up misogyny, this notion that either sex is only good for one thing is so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Anyway the whole Gorean lifestyle thing was what triggered this.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 10:40:53 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reikm

Well seeing as keeping my mouth shut and apologizing has done NOTHING to make this thread die ill explain.

I understand completely that the whole "your a worthless slut" routine can be stimulating to some. What im referring to is more of the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life" kinda stuff.I mean really... thats not BDSM thats just straight up misogyny, this notion that either sex is only good for one thing is so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Anyway the whole Gorean lifestyle thing was what triggered this.


My thoughts on that mindset. A lot of people think a lot of things. That doesn't necessarily make them true.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Reikm)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 11:04:37 AM   
Reikm


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/2/2012
Status: offline 		Of course I dont believe it to be true, the point of this thread is that its pretty prevalent in the community, not its validity.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 11:09:08 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		You've missed my point.

I don't care what a few knuckle draggers believe. Most people do not agree with them and their beliefs have no basis for reality in my life. They can believe the moon is made of bleu cheese but it only makes them the fool. Let the fools believe whatever they want. They are the minority and are only making fools of themselves.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Reikm)
Profile   Post #: 40
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