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RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 11:12:11 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Now, I'm going to put it out there for discussion that people who are good at science and physics and math *tend* to have a rather rigid mindset in some ways. It is certainly not an absolute.



Well, first, just for accuracy in response, I looked up the definition of the word "misogyny." A "hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women."

I would agree with you that those able to handle higher science and math tend to have what can be considered a rigid mindset in some ways. I disagree that the mindset is, in fact, rigid. Instead, I think that the rest of us simply see things more subjectively; with too much personal investment.

What might appear to some as a dislike for women, to others is just statement of fact without cushioning the words to soften the blow. Of course I don't approve of or endorse misogyny. I think, though, men may be unfairly labeled misogynists when really, they're just speaking with a clarity many of us might not be used to.

ETA - Oh...and the reason for the definition of misogyny....it's really rather a harsh label. I'm surprised it's bandied about as much as it is on the boards. I can think of very, very, very few times when I have seen someone on the boards exhibit anything like hatred or distrust to women as a whole. I think we all might be a bit sensitive.

ETA again - I just love the phrase "bandied about" and use it whenever I can. :)


< Message edited by Kaliko -- 5/8/2012 11:16:17 AM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 11:23:01 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reikm
Well seeing as keeping my mouth shut and apologizing has done NOTHING to make this thread die ill explain.

No, as a general rule, you can't control threads on the internet. For this one, you basically came and made a fairly broad and sweeping condemnation. It's sort of predictable that some of us... particularly those of us who are male... would want to call you on it.

quote:

I understand completely that the whole "your a worthless slut" routine can be stimulating to some. What im referring to is more of the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life" kinda stuff.

There are SOOO many things that are wrong in that statement. But in the biggest picture let me make this observation. If you are going to circulate in the alternative world then you are going to be exposed to a lot of alternative viewpoints. If you start tossing pejoratives at everything you don't understand then your journey is going to be short, uninteresting, and combative.

How do you feel about the owner/property folks (remembering that some of us don't think of that as a kinky game)? Is that also "misogyny" in your mind? Cloudboy said it well.

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(in reply to Reikm)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 11:39:05 AM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		I have to disagree with this - If this is what your definition of what a misogynist is.

As for the "your a worthless slut" statement, -Humiliation is a fetish and a lot of people get off on it.

As for the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life." - I kind of agree. It states to me that someone who would state this, looks down on women and would like to take control of them. - but once again this might be taken as a humiliation fetish.

As for the Goreans - live and let live. If you dont like it - DONT LOOK AT IT. Very, very simple. No one is holding a gun to your head.

My idea of a misogynist are these guys on here that when and if they ever do get together with someone, steps away from the safe and sane part and it turns abusive by his end.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reikm

Well seeing as keeping my mouth shut and apologizing has done NOTHING to make this thread die ill explain.

I understand completely that the whole "your a worthless slut" routine can be stimulating to some. What im referring to is more of the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life" kinda stuff.

I mean really... thats not BDSM thats just straight up misogyny, this notion that either sex is only good for one thing is so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Anyway the whole Gorean lifestyle thing was what triggered this.



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 11:46:38 AM   
AngelOfSilence


Posts: 119
Joined: 5/8/2012
Status: offline 		Weak men will assume the mantle of dominance to hide their weakness.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 12:27:01 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

What im referring to is more of the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life" kinda stuff.

I mean really... thats not BDSM thats just straight up misogyny, this notion that either sex is only good for one thing is so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Anyway the whole Gorean lifestyle thing was what triggered this.


I will speak about only what I know to be true from my own experience.

Gorean men value the intelligence of their slaves... since I was never a Free Woman in gor, I cannot speak for them except to say that many men expressed their delight in intelligent women in general.

As a slave, I know my place. Yet, having worked with a few gorean men, and interacted off line with even more, I have yet to find they would intentionally belittle my intelligence simply because I am a mere woman.

Use it to their advantage.. yes. As would any Dominant.

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(in reply to Reikm)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 2:37:59 PM   
mandmlv


Posts: 27
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline 		Don't you see, most of these guys live in a fantasy world.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 2:49:12 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Again I say, it's not limited to guys or dominants.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 3:01:02 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AngelOfSilence

Weak men will assume the mantle of dominance to hide their weakness.


I think just as many women as men try to camouflage insecurities with acting overly dominant, being polite is not weakness, it's actually good manners.

Now just as many subs (male or female) have serious issues which they hide underneath "submissiveness".

As to it the world in general, yes, it's still pretty much a "boys network" but things are changing slowly, things have progressed a lot in the past 100 years or so, give it time and imagine how frustrating it must have been for our grandmothers and mothers. In the US I definitely see a misogynistic trend, but that comes from politicians who are trying to cut women's rights.

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(in reply to AngelOfSilence)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 3:10:20 PM   
Wheldrake


Posts: 477
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

You've missed my point.

I don't care what a few knuckle draggers believe. Most people do not agree with them and their beliefs have no basis for reality in my life. They can believe the moon is made of bleu cheese but it only makes them the fool. Let the fools believe whatever they want. They are the minority and are only making fools of themselves.


Beyond that, even some of the "knuckle draggers" may not really believe that the things they're spouting should really apply to all of humanity. At least within the confines of the Gorean forum, they may just be enjoying a male supremacist space that they've deliberately established by suspending some disbelief, in the same way that RumpusParable enjoys the female supremacist space she mentioned above (which sounds intriguing, though I'd personally rather be treated as a valued but strictly controlled possession than as something worthless).

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 6:49:55 PM   
pompeii


Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond
If someone identifies as female then they are female - point blank.


We're talking about other people's reaction to someone identifying as female who may or may not be naturally female.

While everyone's feelings are of import, it is less critical (for the purpose of this discussion) how the OP identifies as is those other people's reaction to how 'they' identify the 'female'.

Personally, I suspect the OP's assumptions are colored by such reactions. But that's just me.

(in reply to amaidiamond)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 9:13:51 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		If you are looking for a biological female, you can say so, but personally a TS identifying as female, that would be reason enough to treat and address her as a female, it might not be what somebody is attracted to, fair dues, then it just doesn't mesh well, but still doesn't "devalue" her or makes her a fake.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to pompeii)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 9:17:43 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Then again I like the whole objectification and beating to a pulp and all that so I guess for me what some view as misogyny, I view as hot.


Oh Ko, these words will be regretted :-0

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 11:23:10 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

I think the perception comes from profiles (and I see this with male and female dominants) where even if it is simply their particular "thing," it is the only thing they mention in their profile, i.e. the whole scenario about how the opposite sex needs to realize they are "less than" and accept their "place" in life.

It may not be anything more than the particular way they choose to participate in BDSM, but when they fail to express anything in their profile that identifies them as more than what they want BDSM-wise, it can come off as misogyny or misandry.

There are frequent discussion on these boards about how when someone creates a profile that contains nothing about them as a person, but only about their kink/BDSM interests, it seems as though they are nothing more than their kink, and have nothing else to offer.  Kind of like the guys whose primary photo is their dick, or they send a penis pic in an intial email, or a woman who does the same with her girly bits.  It's comes off as though they have nothing else to offer and are nothing more than their penis or pussy. 

When I see a profile like that, I don't know that misogyny or misandry comes to mind.  I do know that "jerk" (or other more colorful descriptions) come to mind immediately, and I do think that the person is definately not relationship material because they aren't looking for a person, but a fetish delivery device.  And yes, that includes both male and female dominants.  After all, when their profile contains nothing but what their expectations are for the "lowly subs/slaves" that hook up with them, that is what they are seeking, someone to simply fufill their kinky needs without consideration that the "lowly sub/slave" is also a person with wants, needs and desires from their partner.  Even if there is more to them than what they put in their profile, it is still the presentation they have given that there isn't anything more to them, and they don't really have a life or interest beyond the kink.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/8/2012 11:53:36 PM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		I don't find misogny "In my face" here. Perhaps it's my search criteria.

I'm not denying that it exists here. I'm pretty sure the counterparts of misandry et al are here too.

I do however see from time to time female profiles which say words to the effect of "beat me use me abuse me" and in some cases "rape me". I suspect that many of these ladies would actually be horrified if someone took them literally. I also suspect therapy might not go amiss in some cases, but that's their decision.

However the little bit of me that thinks "your kink is not my kink" wonders aloud what the difference is between the misognist and the KNOWING "abuse me" (setting aside those so confused - pick a number between 1 & 100% - not able to rationally make such a decision) and any other pairing whose practices are different (and/or abhorrent) to mine.

To be clear, I'm not in any way supporting misogny, but I wonder if there are those out there for whom a misogynist is the "right" partner just as there are those who - knowing the risks - indulge in various forms of edge play.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/9/2012 1:05:23 AM   
Tyraen


Posts: 21
Joined: 9/23/2010
Status: offline 		People judge and bite at what is unfamiliar to them, yet at the very same time they put forth their own mask so they can be accepted into society themselves. A person will hide many truths about themselves, yet easily dismiss the likelihood that everyone else is most likely doing the exact same thing.

Most likely these people are simply putting forth a net they think will get them a catch. I find that most instances of this kind of talk is just fluff, and I would hope that more women would be turned off more by the fact they are using this fluff at all, regardless of it's content.

I've talked to a number of women who say they want this extreme or that extreme, only to disappear when the chips fall and it's go time, and I find that just as irritating as you probably find these "misogynistic" men. Best thing you can do is ignore the behavior that you dislike and reward the behavior you do like, even if you're not interested in that specific guy. If they are saying the right things and being the right kind of person, say something nice and give some kind of kudos for being more of an upstanding guy. Otherwise you are just all talk and only help perpetuate that "jerks get all the women". Too many women I find say they want one thing, but in reality, deep down they want just the opposite, and such lies and misdirection piss me off to no end, especially because it promotes profiles and attitudes like the misogynist guy archtype. So put your money where your mouth is, if you see a well constructed profile and find guys that seem like they are decent stock, even if you're not interested give em a wink, a nod, a friendly hello and a kudos to them for not being a piece of shit, and maybe things will actually improve. I do the same for women's profile's I find.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/9/2012 3:09:12 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You're new here, female, and your pic says you're sexy & cute


Are you sure about all that? The profile says otherwise, at least naturally.


Well, as sure as anyone who doesn't feel the need to begin every post by dissecting the OP's profile....

New - personal poster info says she joined last week. Female - pic looks of a female to me, and is tastefully revealing = sexy & cute etc. For the purposes of these discussion Boards, that'll do me....

Focus.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/9/2012 6:03:57 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Then again I like the whole objectification and beating to a pulp and all that so I guess for me what some view as misogyny, I view as hot.


Oh Ko, these words will be regretted :-0






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Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/9/2012 6:27:14 AM   
AngelOfSilence


Posts: 119
Joined: 5/8/2012
Status: offline
quote:

How do you feel about the owner/property folks (remembering that some of us don't think of that as a kinky game)?
How you think about something doesn't change its essential nature.

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My lack of concern for your sensibilities knows no bounds.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/9/2012 6:29:33 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You're new here, female, and your pic says you're sexy & cute


Are you sure about all that? The profile says otherwise, at least naturally.

Well it says transexual lesbian, which could mean FtoM, and generally speaking from experience, some percentage of lesbians enjoy expressing misandy as much as some percentage of conservatives enjoy expressing misogyny.

But realistically, this site is a little more old school, and there's plenty of condescending attitudes to be found among the dom's and domina's both, you have to have a little bit thicker skin to hang, just tell 'em where to get off.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: misogyny in BDSM - 5/9/2012 6:31:24 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reikm

Well seeing as keeping my mouth shut and apologizing has done NOTHING to make this thread die ill explain.

I understand completely that the whole "your a worthless slut" routine can be stimulating to some. What im referring to is more of the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life" kinda stuff.

I mean really... thats not BDSM thats just straight up misogyny, this notion that either sex is only good for one thing is so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Anyway the whole Gorean lifestyle thing was what triggered this.

Ah, yes, if you want misogyny, you can always find it on Gor, it's practically a cliche.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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