RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible

RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/20/2012 5:54:58 AM)
Good people exist, with or without religious faith:) [;)] Thank goodness

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/20/2012 10:54:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Maybe you can expand a bit on said "War on Family Planning"?!! With comprehensive family planning services, women don't need men to "take care of them". What SPECIFIC "comprehensive family planning services" are you referring to -- I'm still not clear on what you're referring to?!! Pick one. Birth Control. Morning-After Pill. Abortion. Aren't all of these available?!! Yes. So where's the alleged "war"?!!

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/20/2012 11:15:34 AM)
Your waiter will be along shortly with the cheese to go with that whine. [:D]

thompsonx -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/20/2012 1:39:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam And Atheist assholes assume there is no "soul" -- I challenge you to prove this. Is it your contention that all athiest are assholes?

Kirata -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/20/2012 2:20:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: The question is, at what point between conception and birth does this new and unique human life require consideration in its own right. When the issue is posed in the terms you have chosen (which seem a reasonable enough formulation to me), an answer that suggests itself is: "when the foetus is capable or potentially capable of surviving in its own right" ie when the foetus is viable. What do you think? That's the problem, of course. We don't know. One purely pragmatic defense of the conception argument is that it is better to err on the safe side in such matters. Personally, I am unable to say at what point consideration of this new life in its own right becomes required. Viability is a reasonable proposal. But I think the greater concern is at what point the sentience of the foetus is sufficient to require consideration in its own right. That may occur before full physical viability, itself a smeary line, or not until after. I don't know. I will be content with a decision that errs on the safe side of our best knowledge and understanding. K.

farglebargle -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/20/2012 2:34:01 PM)
Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported.

vincentML -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/20/2012 3:50:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported. IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness. It includes the ability to suffer. Just because you can't test a late term fetus for awareness of suffering doesn't mean it is incapable of suffering. What is the difference if you probe a newly born child harshly and do the same to a late term fetus? Both will react, no? The difference is you can hear the reaction of one and not the other. Speaks more to the inadequacy of the test than to the sentience of the fetus and child. Is there any biolgical basis for the "legal existence begins at birth" or is it just a judicial convenience?

Kirata -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/20/2012 4:55:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported. Supported is the wrong term. The word you want in that sentence is "arbitrary." K.

farglebargle -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 4:34:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported. IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness. It is in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using?

vincentML -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 5:30:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported. IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness. It is in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using? Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. Eighteenth century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to have sensations or experiences (described by some thinkers as "qualia"). For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care. The concept is central to the philosophy of animal rights, because sentience is necessary for the ability to suffer, which entails certain rights.

GotSteel -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 12:14:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA YOU were MOCKING another's beliefs on LIFE Some ideas are really dumb. Just because a person is opening their mouth doesn't mean that an idea worthy of respect is coming out.

GotSteel -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 12:16:42 PM)
Lucy, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that.

GotSteel -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 12:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Twenty9male I understand your point i just think it's morally bankrupt. Your whinging as if to say they only cared about the featus, perhaps you should have card about it a bit more and they wouldn't have had to. "Morally bankrupt" holy fuck take a look in the mirror at the feces coming out of your mouth. Welcome to my blocked list.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 1:59:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel Some ideas are really dumb. And often originating from your side of the theological/political fence.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 2:11:56 PM)
I think you are all blasphemers and should be punished. . . . my house Friday around 7pm ok by you?

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 2:17:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I think you are all blasphemers and should be punished. . . . my house Friday around 7pm ok by you? You never miss an opportunity for some THWACKING, do you?!! [:D] LOL!!!

farglebargle -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 4:57:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported. IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness. It is in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using? Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. Eighteenth century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to have sensations or experiences (described by some thinkers as "qualia"). For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care. The concept is central to the philosophy of animal rights, because sentience is necessary for the ability to suffer, which entails certain rights. And what's your experimental protocol for testing that in-utero?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 5:03:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA What SPECIFIC "comprehensive family planning services" are you referring to -- I'm still not clear on what you're referring to?!! Pick one. Birth Control. Morning-After Pill. Abortion. Aren't all of these available?!! Yes. So where's the alleged "war"?!! As of this point in time, they're available. There are those on the Far Right who would happily change that. They are trying as we speak.

vincentML -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 5:06:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported. IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness. It is in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using? Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. Eighteenth century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to have sensations or experiences (described by some thinkers as "qualia"). For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care. The concept is central to the philosophy of animal rights, because sentience is necessary for the ability to suffer, which entails certain rights. And what's your experimental protocol for testing that in-utero? You are avoiding the definition I have shown, which conflicts with your formulation. So, is "Life begins at birth" a biological premise or a legal convenience? What is the basis for your formulation for the start of life? Simple question for you.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/21/2012 11:20:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA What SPECIFIC "comprehensive family planning services" are you referring to -- I'm still not clear on what you're referring to?!! Pick one. Birth Control. Morning-After Pill. Abortion. Aren't all of these available?!! Yes. So where's the alleged "war"?!! As of this point in time, they're available. There are those on the Far Right who would happily change that. They are trying as we speak. Goodness... "as we speak", no less?!! Actually, the FACT is, the Left dusts-off and drags-out this nonsense every election year, and yet... NOTHING ever happens -- just more political scare-tactics and feigned hysteria. Of course, if you have some PROOF of PENDING LEGISLATION that would render birth control, the morning-after pill, and abortion ILLEGAL, by all means... do share this urgent information?!! Enquiring Minds Want to Know!!! The simple fact is... with WOMEN comprising HALF of the voting electorate, abortion will NEVER be made illegal -- ever!!! That would be political suicide... and those on the Right who spout-off about overturning Roe vs. Wade are PANDERING.

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