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RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/9/2012 11:35:21 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

One of the many reasons I have an indoor cat.

an indoor cat, that is wrong and cruel

An outdoor cat, that is wrong and cruel. Unless you don't care about fleas, parasites, feline leukemia, coyotes, and being hit by cars.

(admittedly, the coyotes are not a UK thing...)

And you know this, how?

Is it "cruel" to keep a cat in an environment that many thousands of years of evolution has not intended, i.e., a totally indoor environment?
Probably not, because it turns out that cats are thus adaptable.

But it is a bit silly, in my estimation, that any critter, as they all are more adapted to natural environment, would be worse for the wear in being in a situation that nature has intended.

Horses and cats and dogs have their place in service to humans because of their adaptability to human's various wacko requirements, and the horses seem to do OK even with the "cruelty" of being forced to stay outdoors.

I will never forget my experience with a clan of feral cats, as hung about near the dumpster behind my apartment at the time. They did not take to being approached, generally speaking, but there were always one or three who came up to the bench to investigate this other animal (me).

One of them took to me particularly, (I had no idea of gender at the time), and constantly made me trip over her as I went from car to apartment, so I eventually fed her her own plate, as distinct from the large plate I gave to the others.

They were all wonderful, all I can say. An adult (feral) cat that has never experienced human touch before goes completely berserk then their upper shoulders or lower back are massaged deeply. They demand more, and don't let you stop. But it takes a lot for them to feel comfortable enough to ever get to that point in the first place.

I don't care if those cat's lives were shortened by a couple of years as compared to the unnatural strictly indoors environment, they were in their element all the while, and even then still had time for the occasional human.

PS

I haven't caught any disease from that experience yet, even bitten or clawed a few times (I told you, once you pet a feral cat, count on at least an hour, you get bitten if you stop too early).

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 21

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 12:03:38 AM

soul2share

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Trust me, I'd much rather have the mouse or bird than the dead mutant roach bodies I'm finding all over the place. These fuckers are HUGE!!!!! And apparently, make interesting toys for my kittehs....they don't eat them, just bat them around til they are dead. So I am forced to pick them up with a paper towel......I grabbed one bare handed once, and the fucker was still alive! I dropped it, it was moving and Smooch jumped on it......that was the LAST time I went after one without a paper towel in hand. *heebiejeebieshudderewwwwwww* These fuckers are massive.......and they have wings......OMFGOMFGOMFG!!!

Damn...so much for sleep now......

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RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 12:18:00 AM

Edwynn

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Problem is, humans have adapted dogs and cats because of their adaptability to humans.

When a cat hears us coming home day after day talking about whatever great options trade we have made or whatever new market we might have found, they pick up on that and want to do their part likewise.

They hear what we put on the stereo;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSm0M-BbVdY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXKRwqBmC4A

they hear this crap, and feel inspired to do their part, in the only way they know how. (This is top-class mouse, honest!)

I saw a hawk pick up a chipmunk and take the groceries home to the kids, as I walked home the other day. It is amazing what perfect timing it takes for a hawk to do that, just as it is for a cat. They have every reason to brag about such prowess and such inclination to demonstrate it. Heck, when you are good, you're good.

Just be grateful you don't have hawk chicks for kids.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/10/2012 12:39:50 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 12:20:48 AM

Thaz

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Mine have a habit of leaving live snakes and slow-worms in the hall and on the bed-room landing.....

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Post #: 24

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 2:35:36 AM

kitkat105

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Having cats indoor is far from cruel. Cats are extremely adaptable. Sure, they will bitch, whine, moan for a month or 2 acting like you are the worse slave to ever live, but then they get over it. Because they realise sleeping on beds is awesome. And food 24/7 is equally as good. And defending your territory is overrated.

My Ruby is my baby. I wouldn't allow a child to sleep outside, so why should she? Inside she is safe from fleas, parasites, diseases, other cats, dogs. She is warm & safe. She can attention from her people 24/7.

And the hunting is just cute. Ruby will hunt moths, flies, even ants should they dare come into the house. And I'm sure she's got those little catnip mice stashed everywhere because I've bought heaps of the years... who knows where they all are.

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Post #: 25

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 2:52:50 AM

LadyPact

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I'd much rather have My cats inside. It only took one experience of having one cat getting fleas, and what I had to do be sure the house was rid of fleas, to make that decision. Seriously. Have the fun of washing a cat (which really ended up being four cats) with claws and see how many times you want to do that. Then, think about how many places your cat sits, lays, etc and how you have to make sure there are no fleas in those areas. If you are anal like Me, you'll be cleaning for quite a while.

None of My cats are mighty hunters. They are too well fed and downright lazy. Their version of hunting is meowing at the human to put food in the bowl.

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RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 2:56:26 AM

yourdarkdesire

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Living in an environment that ranges from 30C in summer to -40C in winter, having in outdoor cat is inhumane. All five of my furbabies were rescued before they were eight weeks old, so they really never knew any other life. My current sweetie loves to sit in the window and watch the world go bye. Yes, let the front door open and she out like a lightning bolt, until she hits the top step and flops down to rub against the concrete. She does get some outdoor time in the summer, but it is supervised. She got out once, about two years ago, and was missing for over five hours. With the help of wonderful neighbours at midnigth, we managed to herd her back home. I swear she shook for two days, and hasn't tried an escape attempt since.

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RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 2:57:21 AM

kitkat105

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Oh yeah. My Ruby will even meow, when there's food already in the bowl. *facepalm*

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Post #: 28

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 3:19:44 AM

LadyPact

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Meowing at the bowl that already has food in it was one that MP figured out. Evidently, our cats think the rule is they should never be able to see the bottom of the actual bowl. They might still have food in there, but in their opinion, not enough.

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RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 3:45:47 AM

yourdarkdesire

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as soon as:-)Angie sees the botton of the bowl, she starts rationing how much she eats!

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RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 4:01:08 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire
I swear she shook for two days, and hasn't tried an escape attempt since.

That was Nermal, too, the one time she managed to get out. It scared the crap out of her to find out how big the world really is. She ran straight for a hiding spot under that patio furniture, where she cowered and shook until we rescued her. The ordeal was a whole five minutes but she's never done it again.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Post #: 31

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 4:14:02 AM

Just0Plain0Mike

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We have a cat that used to be feral. We know she came from a breeder at one point, she has a tattoo inside one of her ears, but she lived outside for at least 5 years. When we moved, we trapped her and brought her with us. We'd been taking care of her for so long that we were worried about what would happen if we left her. It took her less then 2 months to acclimate to being an inside cat. Now she wants nothing at all to do with the outside. Recently she followed me part way out the door, saw me watching, and ran like hell back into the house. It had the look of, "Hell no you're not getting out there again!" about it.

Michael

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Post #: 32

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 4:31:54 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Jesus fucking H......

I own a carnivore....leaves me a damn biscuit EVERY gawdamn night...sometimes at my damned head...wiggling....

It's like he wants to tell me "Daddy...I love you....here....check this out...it's a rat...I know you don't really care for them but....it's my gift to you....here....suck on this...."

awwww... Lookie, thats sooooo cute! Where are the pics?

I had Squeek for 16 years & TC for 17... Squeek was the mighty hunter.. he would bring in live mices.. they were always in very good shape, not bloody or beat up.. his idea of Catch and Release (in the house).. He would drop them at my feet and think it was a great game to help me chase the little critter around as i was trying to shoo it back outside.. My ex would just sit there and laugh at us...

Squeek would sometimes catch small birdies too..

I finally turned my kitties into indoor cats (unless i was outside to supervise).. I had the most unpleasant experience one night of hearing a coyote killing a cat.. the screams were horrible.. I would never have an outdoor cat again,.. indoor with a wire covered patio room for the cats to sun and play mighty hunter and catch bugs.. Imo, its not cruel to keep your pet safe and alive..

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RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 6:04:24 AM

Edwynn

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~FR~

I'm not quite yet understanding where someone who keeps cats in a region that gets to 40 below (at which point is nearly the same for both Fahrenheit and Celsius) proposes to tell others what is best for cats (which that environment is clearly not). I further do not understand how clueless some people are as to panic when the cat is gone for five hours.

My feral cats experience aside, the few domestic cats I've had experience with could be gone for two or three days at a time, nobody worried. They always came back, without fail.
It is true that purely indoor cats might need some "supervision" when subjected to such an unnatural environment, then subjected to the outdoors.

The trick is to just let them do what they know, get outside for whatever time they feel like. If the female doesn't cotton to the heavy-handedness of the typical male, I've seen her take care of the situation on her own, and wait at least half a day before she comes indoors so as to not have to worry about it. But running inside was not the first instinct, all the lady cats my family has had.

I don't understand all this fuss about fleas, either. With dogs, yes, that is a constant concern, but not with any cat I've ever been around. You might need to check out other situations in your house, but I assure you it's not the cats.

I tell you; other than inhumane situations such as a 40 below environment, the cats are just fine, they know where home is, that their human companion is always there for them when needed, can take care of themselves in many situations, and come inside when they damn well feel like it. I would not want any other sort of cat. I have been quite fortunate in that regard, which I did not realize until this thread.

Yes, a natural cat will make you curse, on occasion (quite loudly sometimes), but their beautiful nature is a 'curse' that some of us humans find to be a worthy bargain. Those who insist on over-domestication are entirely missing the point.

Animals can teach us things about ourselves that humans can't. And it's the only way we have left to get the latest word on nature. Keeping an animal 100% indoors denudes their nature, and deprives us of what we need to know.

But to claim that keeping an animal away from their true nature, for purpose of human service, is "inhumane" is rather delusional.

You keep them indoors so as to suit your purpose, not theirs.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/10/2012 6:19:12 AM >

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 34

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 6:13:27 AM

soul2share

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I plan on closing in the patio area on my apartment once I find the correct materials. Since I have been visited by 3 other ferals and one raccoon, I will not let my guys out there with no protection. Squeaks tries to kill the one big cat that comes by, if she were to ever get her hands, er, paws, on him, she'd tear him up. But he fights back thru the window, so she'd end up getting hurt, too.

The 3 little ferals I had at the other apartment are still there. It broke my heart to leave them, and since I've left, Mama has died, she crawled up into the engine compartment of a van that was there. Someone had actually trapped and fixed both her and Toby. Sissy has probably had her little ones by now, she won't go near anyone but me, and even then, I couldn't touch her. My neighbor lady puts food out while her bitchy neighbor is at work, but it's not a regular meal like they used to get from us. I tried to convert Toby to housecat status, he was probably only about 8 months old when I moved in, but he wanted no part of it. All it took was the door closing behind him, and he was up the walls trying to get out. He'd come in to eat, but stay only if he could get back out.

I adopted Bit, hoping to find a home for him, but when he lost his eye, the lady that was going to take him didn't want a "handicapped" cat, and I certainly wasn't about to leave a one-eyed 8 week old baby to fend for himself, so he's mine now. Other than the occasional "thunk" from hitting something on his left side due to his eye, he's a regular little terror. He runs around the place like a whirling dervish jumping on everyone. Lately, his favorite prey is my toes......don't know what's up with that, but at night, he crawls in under the comforter and bites my toe...talk about a rude awakening!

As far as hunting for food....ppppffffffftttttt!!!! I am the hunter as far as they are concerned...it's my job to go hunt for the flavor of cat food they've determined they are going to eat that week......of course, if they'd give me a clue, I could get it right the first time!

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I have to stop saying "How stupid can you be?"...people are starting to take it as a challenge!

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Post #: 35

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 6:16:15 AM

LaTigresse

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There is so much obvious misinformation in your post that I won't even bother going through it point by point......because quite frankly, a trained monkey knows more.

That being said, cats are not some treasured species. Where I come from, feral cats are as common as rabbits and breed nearly as prolifically. Rehabilitating many feral cats is impossible. In fact the local shelters will not even bother. Although the sheer number of cats available is likely a strong, contributing factor. If the number of feral dogs in my area were even one tenth the number of feral cats, people would be demanding action. But cats being the excellent outdoor survivours and adapters that they are, are less obvious. If a feral cat is cold, guaranfuckinteed they will find a warmer place. They are better at it than the homeless in our area and those folks are remarkably resourceful.

I have a cat. He goes outside. Occasionally he suffers the consequences. C'est la vie! His life may be shortened because he goes outside. Well, here's the dealio folks, no matter how much we try, those fur balls are not going to live 100 years anyway. So I figure, let them enjoy it their way fow whatever time they have. We don't, cannot, wrap our human companions in gauze, never letting them out into the world, keeping them 100% safe. We would scream abuse if anyone tried doing so to us. Why should we for a cat?

If I let Quigley outside this evening and he gets eaten by a coyote, well, such is life. If Generic Dude gets on his motorcycle today and gets taken out by a reckless driver, such is life. I am not going to try and stop either one from living the life they want to live. Generic Dude isn't a child to be protected and neither is the cat.

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Post #: 36

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 6:24:48 AM

Edwynn

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So then why do you claim such "misinformation" in my post when yours seems to concur in such large measure?

Is this just about ... what?

You feeling OK today?

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Post #: 37

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 6:47:06 AM

Edwynn

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Soul2,

I fed the outdoor brood with organic yellow grits, mainly, with some bit of the cheapest mackerel I'd toss in. Don't ask me where I got the notion, but I somehow got it in my head that corn grits might be at least somewhat constipating for a cat (though it isn't for me). Our guts are made differently, you know, but I still don't know how I came to that notion. I switched to millet and occasional jasmine rice, but they ate every bit of whatever, grits to rice.

I entertained myself in putting a small leaf of kale on my personal feral kitty's plate, as a garnish, but she snapped that thing right away, almost like a baby mouse, then dug into the rest of it. Even primarily carnivore critters like an occasional vegetable. This reminds me of a friend's dog (who are far more omnivorous than cats, even though cats are more omnivorous than we think) that went berserk over figs, he couldn't get enough.

I know, I'm weird. I actually cooked for the cats, but it wasn't much different than what I ate, so not a big deal. And definitely cheaper and more healthy than the standard cat food.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/10/2012 6:53:35 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 6:57:24 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
I further do not understand how clueless some people are as to panic when the cat is gone for five hours.

I can understand the panic, which is why if i have cats again, they will be entirely indoor cats with their own little outdoor totally enclosed patio oasis to keep them safe.. and so i dont have to worry each time they disappear on me..

TC disappeared on me once for 2 weeks.. i was very upset and thought he was dead for sure but he finally turned up half dead, skinny and very weak.. i dont know if he somehow got locked in a garage or shed someplace all that time or if he was holed up someplace.

So I can understand the panic feeling of your beloved pet going missing, even for a short time.. For me, my cats were like my children and you get the same panic feeling when they are gone, just as parents do with 2 legged kids.. When Squeek died (of old age), I cried every day for a month.. he was my little buddy..

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Post #: 39

RE: Gawdamn fucking carnivores.... - 6/10/2012 7:15:41 AM

Edwynn

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Thank you for that input, tj.

I have probably been a bit too harsh on the humans in this discussion.

My (at the time) same aged cousin left the world 2 years ago from ALS, but do you know what I think about when I recall her now?

How worried she was when her cats got outside. She would talk about that sometimes.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 40

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