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RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:03:17 PM

KaleidoKenlyn

Posts: 108
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

I'm sorry how have we (feminists) forced you to go to work? Stay home then, find a man that can support you I guess...or whatever you think it takes to stay home. Your post is confusing. The feminists made you not able to be a stay at home mom how exactly?

This! :)

Feminism doesn't mean that every single woman out there needs to go to work. Just as I don't think every man needs to work. It's about the choice. For BOTH genders.

One thing I'm not too happy about though.. (Sort of side note) I hate how it's not a big deal if a woman stays home. She's a homemaker, a domestic engineer.But it's still a weird thing if a man stays home. He's a bum, a freeloader. When I say I want equal rights, I don't only mean legally. I mean I want it to be socially acceptable for a man to take care of the house and kids too. I want fairness for both sides.

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Post #: 21

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:10:37 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I admit I'm a traditionalist. But if other women feel a need to be something other than a stay at home mom then more power to them. I just tend to ignore people who say I have to be a feminist or I should be paid more, etc....it's just stuff that never bothers me at all.

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Post #: 22

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:13:24 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

2 kids, husband is building web technologies from his home, wife works at office.
4 kids, husband is programming from his home, wife works at office.

I think "house husbands" are more accepted now than ever before. I know a couple of IT/programmers (mentioned above) that work from the house so they can raise the kids while mom goes to the office. No one thinks they are bums and in fact, there skill set makes as much or more than mom. They are a bunch of yuppies.

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Post #: 23

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:15:39 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

You do live in your own zone, Littlewonder.

It would be nice, if it were okay for men to be househusbands, wouldnt it? It would be nice if everyone who wanted to stay home with their kids could afford to do just that.

Those of you who see the '50's as something out of the Donna Reed show are more than a little mistaken about the reality.

A slap on the rear from my husband is a complment. From an employer? It's grounds for a lawsuit.

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Post #: 24

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:16:43 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Feminist here, one who stayed at home with three kids then held a job when husbands job changes, been Married 27 years... I just want to agree with Aynne, AGAIN:) in all her posts on this topic, altho Im being nice.
My grandmother was a suffragette in the uk.. I got good grounding from her.. in fact this pic remidns me of what she would be saying today

Also Id like to say this to all the women regarding the insurance issue

Submissive, Slave, Dominant or whatever, Im not gonna judge, THEIR CHOICE

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 6/30/2012 9:25:27 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:29:21 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

Again ;-) I am rocking the Lucylastic and Lady Hib train! It's just ridiculous how the fearful like to throw around the word "man-hater". Jeeze ladies I do believe in the years I have known you here, both you and Hibbie have a deep and profound appreciation for the male gender, at least the good ones, as do I. I also am still confused as to how feminists forced anyone to go to work. What an asinine statement.

I haven't been on much lately but damn ladies I am always glad to see the two of you.

!!

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Post #: 26

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:32:39 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Feeling is mutual Aynne, for many of the ladies and of the gents(you know who you are)

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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

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Dont Hate Love

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Post #: 27

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:41:00 PM

ReMakeYou

Posts: 147
Joined: 1/20/2012
Status: offline

quote:

Rape fetish> Come again? You want to explain that one and tell me how having a rape fetish make one a feminist?

What do all the following have in common: Pornography, BDSM, not seeing lesbianism as a choice, and taking women at face value. After a certain point, you realize it says more about the people making the claim than anything else.

(I wish I were joking about the last one. But apparently, when a woman wants to have sex, she needs a man to judge whether she's sufficiently enthusiastic.)

quote:

(Daddy issues)Sorry what? My father and mother have been happily married for 47 years, I grew up with a really awesome family dynamic and my Dad is very traditional and old fashioned.

Like the amount of time spent saying that the patriarchy doesn't like them because they're fat. Or how the patriarchy is oppressing them with images of Disney princesses (who have displaced Barbie as the popular thing for feminists to rip on). Or how the patriarchy doesn't do enough to support their career aspirations. Or how the patriarchy never bought them a pony. Again, this is basic pattern recognition.

(in reply to Aynne88)

Post #: 28

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 9:53:05 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

You do live in your own zone, Littlewonder.

It would be nice, if it were okay for men to be househusbands, wouldnt it? It would be nice if everyone who wanted to stay home with their kids could afford to do just that.

Those of you who see the '50's as something out of the Donna Reed show are more than a little mistaken about the reality.

A slap on the rear from my husband is a complment. From an employer? It's grounds for a lawsuit.

I've worked for men. Can't say I've ever had one that slapped me on the rear. Make sexual jokes? Sure but I thought they were as funny as he and the other guys did too. Then again most of my friends have always been men. I've never felt discriminated by men. I've actually felt discriminated however by other women.

And I don't see the 50's as being like Donna Reed. I see them as being harsh..having to quit school to bring in income for the family, having to raise 6 children while dad either sits in the bar or works too much to the point he's exhausted and moody when he gets home.

I just personally never really compared myself to men or even cared what others made in income. It just never bothered me and I never even asked someone what their income was. For me personally, the only thing I ever cared was that my husband had a job and we could pay the bills and our child had a parent at home to raise her. The only time I worked was when I had to because money was getting tight and after he died because I was now a single mom. I hated every single moment of it.

Now I work only when I find a job that I absolutely love and not because I have to. I still would much rather lay around doing nothing and getting a tan on a beach.

And I never had to pay more than men for insurance as far as I know of but then again I never went around asking men what they paid.

To me the whole men/women thing feels like a competition to me and I don't ever compete in anything at all and I don't see everyone as equal.

Like I said before, I simply see everyone as human.

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Post #: 29

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 10:27:35 PM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

True equality in rights, pay, treatment and opportunities
Is absolutely worthwhile and harrasment or victimisation
based on sex is not on.

Ive to often had a girl come home in tears because
Of whatever unfair treatment she had gotten at work to
Think otherwise.
Women get overly emotional most of the time so who knows
If there were any real cause for tears, but I dam well want
To be sure they are treated fairly when Im not around.

Now with what I said...

"Bah to feminism I say, what passes for it
These days is to close to politically correct,
Man-hating nonsense... "

It is...

The things the early feminist activists were crying out
For have all but come to pass,
Harassment, victimisation, unfair treatment?
They are all punishable now, the law has your
Back, its all bundled up by political Correctness
And equal rights to Ensure that girls get a fair go...
What seems to be all to common now is those
Rights being used as a tool by bitches trying to
Have power over someone.

Ha! Nbmg, I think I have a different idea of what
A man is but for you I will change my quote.

"Bah to feminism I say, what passes for it
These days is to close to politically correct,
Dom-hating nonsense... "

-ARIES

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530 DAYS

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Post #: 30

RE: Feminism and Submission - 6/30/2012 11:18:54 PM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

Thanks for the moral support but I think your a bit misguided about what I think,
If someone slapped my mom/ wife/ girlfriend/ daughter on the ass, I would remove the perpertrators ass and use it for a bike stand.

-ARIES

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 6/30/2012 11:22:20 PM >

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530 DAYS

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Post #: 31

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 12:43:09 AM

NiceButMeanGirl

Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
Ha! Nbmg, I think I have a different idea of what
A man is but for you I will change my quote.

lol

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Post #: 32

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 12:47:52 AM

kitkat105

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline

I think you can certainly be submissive and support feminist ideals at the same time.

I come from a traditional home where Mum stayed at home (and still doesn't work, even at age 55) and Dad is the breadwinner. But my Mum is a strong personality, she is headfast, does the home budget, cooks, cleans, maintains the home routine. She also is pro-choice, an atheist, more accepting of other cultures/religions than anyone I know. She believes everyone deserves a fair go. She's far from a bra burning hippie though.

However, I'm probably half way in between. I've got a university education but still work in a female dominated industry (that has an excellent union) so we have very good rights. But nothing would make me happier than to work part time, so I could spend the rest of my week doting on my husband-to-be.

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(in reply to ARIES83)

Post #: 33

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 1:20:57 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

You are a woman and don't want to claim that title? Great. Then shut up and sit back and let me do your fighting for you I guess. When you get harassed at work and get less pay and less benefits shut the fuck up. When some man tells you to get back in the kitchen deal with it because you don't want to be labeled a feminist. I am okay with that.

By the way, this^ is appalling.

-ARIES

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Post #: 34

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 3:45:26 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Using FR:

I am a staunch feminist, always have been, always will be. But I need to explain what that term means to *me.*

Being a feminist, to me, means that I love and embrace my feminine qualities, as well as the feminine qualities of others, be they male or female.

You know, none of us are 100% male or 100% female, we are ALL our own personal combination of the male and female personality traits. Thinking of yourself as strictly one or the other limits your ability to be a well rounded person (JMO).

Do I feel myself equal in worth to a man? You betcha !! Do I think I deserve to be:

quote:

paid the same as men for the same work, have the same educational and professional opportunities, the same level of healthcare access and research, and of course, full reproductive rights

You bet I do !

I have had more than one career, one in a university setting where I brought my *own* managerial model to a huge graduate school. By my own model, I mean one that was based on both male and female leadership traits. Let me break this down. Examples of male traits would be: authoritarian, assertive, analytical, decisive, coolness under pressure; female traits would be participatory, creative, flexible, empathetic, great communication skills. The combination of the two made me a great leader, and therefore, a great manager (also, a humble one).

When I first started using this model, many thought I would fall flat on my face. I was too "nice" too "democratic" to run a program consisting primarily of males with engineering backgrounds. Of course my detractors quickly learned I am more than capable of standing up to *any* prima donna engineering professor who thinks he's god b/c he has math skills and a dick.

I can say I truly enjoyed bringing a more feminine aspect into a male dominated arena, and have it be highly successful.

Now, how does all this play into the fact that although I am a strong, assertive female, I have a distinctive submissive side, which I embrace fully?

Frankly, I don't see a contradiction. I don't think himself is better than me. I don't think he has more worth, is more important in the scheme of things, or any of that nonsense. I also don't think he needs to bow down and kiss my ass just b/c I have a pussy.

Our relationship works b/c he is a man who I can say really does love a strong, assertive female, one who knows how to build trust, who is dependable enough to allow me to let down my guard and let the soft and cuddly little girl inside me come out to play.

Now, I was regrettable married to someone for over 20 years who HATED that I was a feminist. He felt threatened by it, as many males do.

I think the term feminist has become synonymous with female supremacy. And I don't believe in either male or female supremacy. I believe we are all just people, making our way through life as best we can.

< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 7/1/2012 4:08:30 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 4:43:02 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atameamo

I totaly agree with Aries83. The feminists of this world have forced me to have to go to work instead of taking care of my man and my familly. I have no me time and once I`ve paid for chid care, ferried kids to and fro to get them there, bought quick to prepare foodstuffs etc, I`m no better off financially than should I stay at home. Who missed out? We all did. Who gained anything? No-one but the taxman. I`d love to have lived the 1950`s when women were coiffed and polished, stayed home and cooked good meals and took care of their own kids education. A smack on the arse is a compliment for gods sake.

If you would have been better off financially to stay home, then you should have stayed home. I seriously doubt anyone held a gun to your head and made you go out and get a job. And now your going to try to blame all feminists for your bad decisions? Give me a bloody break.

OP - There are a lot of idiots online. The next time one of them writes you, block ignore and move on. Lifes to short for bullshit.

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Post #: 36

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 5:03:01 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

If you would have been better off financially to stay home, then you should have stayed home. I seriously doubt anyone held a gun to your head and made you go out and get a job. And now your going to try to blame all feminists for your bad decisions? Give me a bloody break.

OP - There are a lot of idiots online. The next time one of them writes you, block ignore and move on. Lifes to short for bullshit.

I agree. I quit a high powered job a month before giving birth to my first child. It was a planned departure, they knew I was quitting. This allowed me to basically bank my very good paycheck and learn how to balance a budget based on one salary only.

When my kids where preschool age I did not work outside the home at all. Still, my then husband managed to get a degree so he could be better paid in his field, we bought a house, planned college funds for the kids, etc. I do realize I was very fortunate in that he made enough money to allow me to do this. But I stayed home in a time when people were quite literally astounded that it was *my* choice.

When the kids hit school age, I began my own business out of the house so I could ALWAYS be home for them when they needed it. I scaled my business down during the summer and took them to the beach or the zoo most days. What they taught me about how to slow down and smell the roses is a invaluable lesson that I will treasure until my dying day.

But I fully understand I had the luxury of doing that. Many women do not. They HAVE to work. And having to work full time and be a mother is the most exhausting job ever.

Really, you want to know just how unequal women STILL are? We still do not have affordable good quality child care.

This would help all families, not just single families, be able to come home from a full's days work with some energy left to enjoy their kids.

THIS is why feminism gets a bad rap. Politically the movement has failed, not only do we STILL not earn as much as men doing the same job, we still do not have the single most important thing females need: good quality affordable child care.

And before anyone starts saying BOTH parents should raise the kids, I will say, I agree. I abhor those who think a test tube baby that will *never* have a father figure is OKAY.

But, BUT, the reality is, even in this day and age, the bulk of responsibility for the children is usually down to the mother.

I view being female as biological, not political. Men cannot breast feed their children.

Sorry, rant over, will get off my soapbox now and make myself another cup of tea.

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Post #: 37

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 5:37:59 AM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaleidoKenlyn
I'm sorry how have we (feminists) forced you to go to work? Stay home then, find a man that can support you I guess...or whatever you think it takes to stay home. Your post is confusing. The feminists made you not able to be a stay at home mom how exactly?

I've always figured that it's about holding the position that women shouldn't be considered second class citizens simply because they don't have balls. As such I consider myself a feminist.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 7/1/2012 5:38:14 AM >

(in reply to KaleidoKenlyn)

Post #: 38

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 5:44:52 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I think the term feminist has become synonymous with female supremacy. And I don't believe in either male or female supremacy. I believe we are all just people, making our way through life as best we can.

I don't have a problem with female dominants,
I just dislike bitches calling themself feminist
treating other women like they are traitors...

But I digress,
Chatte, I like your type of feminism
Littlewonder, I like your... You-ism

-ARIES

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Post #: 39

RE: Feminism and Submission - 7/1/2012 5:52:14 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaleidoKenlyn
I occasionally get hate mail due to the fact that my profile starts off with a quote from a feminist but I am a submissive.

Feminism from it's very beginning attracted a certain percentage of hate filled people. I've heard similar stories dating back 40 or 50 years. For some people feminism has always been a search for equality and for others it's always been a war on men.

Sadly, in recent years it seems the more militant aspects have pretty much taken over. I wouldn't call myself a feminist nowadays either. It'd be tantamount to declaring war on myself.

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(in reply to KaleidoKenlyn)

Post #: 40

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