Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Help


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Help Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 [5] 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Help - 7/6/2012 12:19:55 PM   
Char2688


Posts: 151
Joined: 4/16/2012
Status: offline
You could look for help
Local for real time
Anywhere for online
Just move slow and remember to learn along the way

(in reply to wildernessbitch)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Help - 7/6/2012 12:48:57 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
In other words, something, ANYTHING, besides, "brand new, never done it before, but it sounded cool for a screen name" type of deal.

That almost makes sense to me. The problem there is I think back to a few years back when I decided to go this path to start with. I used the labels "master" and "slave" more as a statement of intent than an actual, on the ground reality. Clearly I did not master Carol on day one... or year one for that matter. There was this transitional period which stretched years before the sort of obedience I expect now was feasible or appropriate. Reasonably (in my mind at least) I was a new master trying to figure out what that meant.
That is exactly the point. You don't Master someone from day one and you certainly haven't Mastered somebody that you've never met. It's like calling yourself a violinist when you've never played the violin.



quote:

It's that transitional period that bothers me with this viewpoint which says "you gotta have experience". By implication there is some sort of progress tree by which one could measure one's progress. But I don't think any such path exists. I'm not at all convinced that M/s is just D/s but moreso. What label should a new person who wishes to go that path use? Where's the authoritative BDSM body which is defining these labels and establishing the test criteria?

Don't think I'm making noise just because the word is "Master" compared to anything else. I'm the same way with other terms. A person can call themselves a slave all they want, but if they have never lived under the authority of another, I'm not going to take that seriously, either. All of those couples looking for a third, but have never had more than two people in a relationship? Call yourself poly all you want, but it doesn't mean the same to Me as those who have actually lived that way. There's a big difference between something you have really done and something you are wishing to do.


quote:

My response to all of this is very different. For me, I recognize that none of the BDSM labels mean much of anything. So if someone wants to call themselves a whatever that's perfectly fine with me. I see the label as decoration, nothing more. It's the descriptive paragraph which follows the label that means something to me. It's also what I would judge by... "Do this person's actions line up with the picture they have painted of themselves." But, for instance, I acknowledge that [sex] slave is a perfectly fine label even though I'd call that a bottom.

With no offense intended, that's because we see it in two different ways. If you had not Mastered Carol, what would be the difference to you? I believe you have stated more than once that it is just a title that can be used to describe the type of relationship that you have. You are the teenager who's parents bought him a car for his birthday, when others were working every day with a goal in mind.

Here's a bit of a circular logic question for you. Many of us here happen to know that you are an engineer by trade. Are you an engineer because you have a piece of paper or are you an engineer because of all of the learning and studying you had to do to earn that degree? No taking the easy answer because of what employers want. What is the answer to you? The one that really means something.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Help - 7/6/2012 1:28:22 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
Perhaps what this gets down to is what you said... we're not perceiving the word "master" in the same way. To me, I see it as a BDSM label, not a statement of demonstrated skill or accreditation. So for me, anyone who wants to can wear it if they choose. In my own little brain, when I hear the word "master" I interpret that as meaning:

"In some way or another which will probably become clear if the guy keeps talking he is or wants to be the d-type in a kinky relationship"

I'm not hearing a claim to credentials. I'm hearing either a statement of fact or intent depending on the context. I don't even know what the fact or intent is until I get more data. You know what occurred to me? I get a reaction similar to yours regarding the word "alpha" or "dominant" when used in the social context. There, I DO have very clear ideas about what that concept means to me and I frequently find myself laughing at those who label themselves in that way. It would make sense that I'm not very upset about anyone using the term "master" since I don't really have much of a meaning attached to it.

You are the teenager who's parents bought him a car for his birthday, when others were working every day with a goal in mind.
I think I get what you're saying but it's not entirely correct. It's not like I was just handed a car. Yes, it happened organically as do most things in my life... but once the goal became apparent then I have worked my ass off to make it a reality. Carol is default submissive. That's a far cry from 100% obedient.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Help - 7/6/2012 2:24:49 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Perhaps what this gets down to is what you said... we're not perceiving the word "master" in the same way. To me, I see it as a BDSM label, not a statement of demonstrated skill or accreditation. So for me, anyone who wants to can wear it if they choose. In my own little brain, when I hear the word "master" I interpret that as meaning:

"In some way or another which will probably become clear if the guy keeps talking he is or wants to be the d-type in a kinky relationship"

I'm not hearing a claim to credentials. I'm hearing either a statement of fact or intent depending on the context. I don't even know what the fact or intent is until I get more data. You know what occurred to me? I get a reaction similar to yours regarding the word "alpha" or "dominant" when used in the social context. There, I DO have very clear ideas about what that concept means to me and I frequently find myself laughing at those who label themselves in that way. It would make sense that I'm not very upset about anyone using the term "master" since I don't really have much of a meaning attached to it.

You are the teenager who's parents bought him a car for his birthday, when others were working every day with a goal in mind.
I think I get what you're saying but it's not entirely correct. It's not like I was just handed a car. Yes, it happened organically as do most things in my life... but once the goal became apparent then I have worked my ass off to make it a reality. Carol is default submissive. That's a far cry from 100% obedient.

One, you suck when we disagree on this. Two, you have mail.

The finer points of this discussion can (and I would prefer) to be handled privately?

On another thread, I mentioned that this subject is a hurdle for Me in the lifestyle. It's not especially easy for Me. Over the years, I've had to readjust My thinking and get up to speed. Perhaps My progress is not quite up to date.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Help - 7/6/2012 4:11:01 PM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline
LadyPact,

The more you defend your side the more I see clearly where you are coming from even though I am on the other side of the kneel. Slave is a very difficult 'label' (if you will) to allow myself to be called. In my mind, and from my own personal definition, I simply don't have what it takes to be a slave.

With that said, occasionally it yanks my chain to see someone label themself as slave when they don't appear to even come close to my personal definition. The biggest one is, "I am slave but I don't allow my Master to do x,y,z. " Sometimes, I laugh but sometimes, it nags the hell out of me.

So yes, I see your point. It's unnerving to know you have put forth the effort to BE and (some what did you call them) 'twatwaffle?' comes along with no effort at all and claims the title.

I just try really hard not to let it yank my chain to much. There are many who would probably think, I had no right to even claim the submissive title and some have even told me that. What really matters is what I think of me, and what my partner thinks of me. And if I ever decide to call myself Master/Mistress, please feel free to call me twatwaffle. I'd so deserve it

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Help - 7/6/2012 6:46:16 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
lilcracker,

Oh, I reserve twatwaffle for very particular cases, of which you are not one. Just take My word for that.

ETA - It shouldn't be as easy as all of that.

Oh, when I first started, the only proper definition to Me was the leather one. How could anyone want to be anything else?

Over the years, I really have compromised. Even Jeff there can tell you, I gave him a bitch of a time when he first showed up. Not so much now. Trust Me. This is the easier version.

Like any other word, I just want this one to mean something to the person saying it. At minimum, one must form their own definition and allow that to be significant. At least to themselves.



< Message edited by LadyPact -- 7/6/2012 7:12:02 PM >


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to lilcracker)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Help - 7/6/2012 8:44:59 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
 
I agree with LadyPact; the terms or words we use should mean something, at least to the person using it.
I go round and round with one particular dominant I know. He wants me to call him master. He has made it clear he does NOT want to take on any responsibilities that go along with that title. When I balk, he says “but it doesn't mean anything” and I say, “that is exactly why I will not call you master.”

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 3:31:59 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
the terms or words we use should mean something

Quite. Only when concepts are defined is a discourse or philosophical thought about them enabled.

This definition of concepts may be one of the distinctions between the status of animal and the status of being a human.

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 6:26:28 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I go round and round with one particular dominant I know. He wants me to call him master. He has made it clear he does NOT want to take on any responsibilities that go along with that title. When I balk, he says “but it doesn't mean anything” and I say, “that is exactly why I will not call you master.”


To paraphrase JeffBC on another thread - without absolute responsibility, there should be no absolute authority.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 6:44:01 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
I go round and round with one particular dominant I know. He wants me to call him master. He has made it clear he does NOT want to take on any responsibilities that go along with that title. When I balk, he says “but it doesn't mean anything” and I say, “that is exactly why I will not call you master.”


Why go round and round? You can't get away from him that way.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 3:08:01 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

To paraphrase JeffBC on another thread - without absolute responsibility, there should be no absolute authority. 



I agree with this totally, Kalikshama. My point was about words and labels. The dominant in question is a very nice man and a responsible person as far as it goes. But that's the problem, it doesn't go far enough for me to call him by that title. He simply likes the sound of the word (master); he brings it up several times a year, and we discuss it. To me, it should mean a lot more than 'it sounds nice when you say it'.
I am not as willing as JeffBC to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. I've met too many guys who believe slapping a label of 'master' or 'dom' to their screen name gives them the right to blow jobs on demand. (NOT that there's anything wrong with that!)

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 3:10:24 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 Why go round and round? You can't get away from him that way.


'Cuz I do corners better than he does!  

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 4:57:29 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Me, personally, I like em in a french maid outfit when performing service


i prefer them with ketchup and mayo

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 6:15:52 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
I am not as willing as JeffBC to give the OP the benefit of the doubt.

See, and for me, the word "master" means zip so I'm not giving him any benefit of any doubt. It's just a totally undefined BDSM label to me.

quote:

I've met too many guys who believe slapping a label of 'master' or 'dom' to their screen name gives them the right to blow jobs on demand. (NOT that there's anything wrong with that!)

Well see now THERE is a problem... a labelling problem as a matter of fact. Nobody has the right to blow jobs on demand. You either have whatever it takes to get that or you don't. I'd say, when you tack on the belief in a right... that the proper label is "idiot".


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 6:35:15 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 Well see now THERE is a problem... a labelling problem as a matter of fact. Nobody has the right to blow jobs on demand. You either have whatever it takes to get that or you don't. I'd say, when you tack on the belief in a right... that the proper label is "idiot". 


but...but "IdiotDomlyMan" (although accurate) won't get him laid!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Help - 7/7/2012 8:27:34 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
Defintion of Master from Miriam-Webster Dictionary. I don't think this guy is any one of these listed but who knows. Maybe he has numerous slaves or owns a business with employees or a male teacher or has a degree higher than a bachelor's. Maybe the op should get back to us and let us know if he has any of these qualifications.

a (1) : a male teacher (2) : a person holding an academic degree higher than a bachelor's but lower than a doctor's b often capitalized : a revered religious leader c : a worker or artisan qualified to teach apprentices d (1) : an artist, performer, or player of consummate skill (2) : a great figure of the past (as in science or art) whose work serves as a model or ideal
2
a : one having authority over another : ruler, governor b : one that conquers or masters : victor, superior <in the new challenger the champion found his master> c : a person licensed to command a merchant ship d (1) : one having control (2) : an owner especially of a slave or animal e : the employer especially of a servant f (1) dialect : husband (2) : the male head of a household
3
a (1) archaic : mr. (2) : a youth or boy too young to be called mister —used as a title b : the eldest son of a Scottish viscount or baron
4
a : a presiding officer in an institution or society (as a college) b : any of several officers of court appointed to assist (as by hearing and reporting) a judge
5
a : a master mechanism or device b : an original from which copies can be made; especially : a master recording (as a magnetic tape)

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Help - 7/8/2012 3:22:59 AM   
MASTERTABOO1974


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/18/2012
Status: offline
Thanks to everyone for all the advice.

(in reply to MASTERTABOO1974)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Help - 7/8/2012 6:05:42 PM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:


A Master is someone who has considerable experience and recognition in the community.



Personally, I think this is more of an attitude than a truth. And a bit of an elitist and exclusionary attitude ta boot. "recognition in the community"??? I agree the OP is not a Master, but only because he hasn't done anything with anyone yet. He might be a brilliant Master the minute he finds someone who wants him to be that for them... and they will be the only judge of whether he is a success or not.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Help - 7/8/2012 9:41:25 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
BTW: as a sub/bottom, I have yet to refer to ANYONE as master outside of a designated roleplay scene. I don't know anyone (sub or bottom) that has used the term Master otherwise. Between myself and those I personally know who have been around for a few years, generally, Sir has been used in scene. First name when not in scene).

Really? OK, don't ask me where I got that little tidbit from but I bow to your way superior experience on that one. Somehow I'd gotten the impression that "master" had become the generic word for d-type.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Help - 7/8/2012 9:44:31 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
BTW: as a sub/bottom, I have yet to refer to ANYONE as master outside of a designated roleplay scene. I don't know anyone (sub or bottom) that has used the term Master otherwise. Between myself and those I personally know who have been around for a few years, generally, Sir has been used in scene. First name when not in scene).

Really? OK, don't ask me where I got that little tidbit from but I bow to your way superior experience on that one. Somehow I'd gotten the impression that "master" had become the generic word for d-type.




;)


_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 4 [5] 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Help Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 [5] 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094