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Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 2:47:28 PM

Marini

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As we become inundated with all sources of "news" concerning the horrific shootings inside of the movie theater last night, there are many, many, political implications related to this tragedy.

Can we discuss some of the political implications related to this horrific event, and seriously limit some of the bi-partisan bullshit, just a bit.

I am hearing a lot about the issue of gun control right now.
If this lunatic did not have access to guns, he would have still found another way to carry out this rampage.

There are many discussions going on related to the political implications, gun control, and the reactions to the shootings.

Here is a brief soundbite of one such discussion today.

Chris Wagner/MSNBC/political implications regarding Colorado shootings

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/20/2012 2:48:35 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 2:57:04 PM

tazzygirl

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While I agree he would have found another way, would he have utilized it?

Nothing is as instant as a gun.. especially an AK-47 type of weapon.

Lets look at the alternatives.

Would he have used a bomb? Perhaps... yet he could have here, and risked his own life. That doesnt seem to have been his goal.

Knives? Perhaps... then he would have run the risk of being over taken himself.

Personally, this is the cowards choice....

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 3:03:29 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

While I agree he would have found another way, would he have utilized it?

Nothing is as instant as a gun.. especially an AK-47 type of weapon.

Lets look at the alternatives.

Would he have used a bomb? Perhaps... yet he could have here, and risked his own life. That doesnt seem to have been his goal.

Knives? Perhaps... then he would have run the risk of being over taken himself.

Personally, this is the cowards choice....

I would dare to say that this "person" fit's the bill for criminally insane, BUT
should situations like this, provide the impetus for extremely strict gun control legislation?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 3:07:28 PM

tazzygirl

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I have no doubt this person will be found to be insane.. if not criminally insane.

I think its time we revisit just how we determine who can access guns and who cant.

I am all for gun control... to a point.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Marini)

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 3:14:58 PM

DaNewAgeViking

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I would dare to say that this "person" fit's the bill for criminally insane, BUT
should situations like this, provide the impetus for extremely strict gun control legislation?

It strikes me as curious that keeping high powered military hardware out of the hands of psychopaths, drug pushers, gang-bangers, etc could be considered 'extreme'. It makes me wonder what the ideal world implied by such values would be like.

(in reply to Marini)

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 3:15:11 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I would dare to say that this "person" fit's the bill for criminally insane, BUT
should situations like this, provide the impetus for extremely strict gun control legislation?

Depends how you defend "extremely strict": do you really need an assault rifle for any purpose besides something like this or a bank job? Any reasonable use of a gun (hunting and self defence are the two obvious ones, but there may be others) can be filled by a bolt action rifle, shotgun or handgun.

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 3:15:36 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have no doubt this person will be found to be insane.. if not criminally insane.

I think its time we revisit just how we determine who can access guns and who cant.

I am all for gun control... to a point.

Well, I would like to think that this tragedy won't be used in the political campaign, but I will be shocked if it is not used in the near future.

President Obama stated in his speech 4 hours ago, that this was "such evil is senseless".

CNN politicalticker/President Obama after the shooting tells supporters life is fragile

I agree with President Obama, life is fragile.
He is on point, as usual.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 3:34:23 PM

lovmuffin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I would dare to say that this "person" fit's the bill for criminally insane, BUT
should situations like this, provide the impetus for extremely strict gun control legislation?

It strikes me as curious that keeping high powered military hardware out of the hands of psychopaths, drug pushers, gang-bangers, etc could be considered 'extreme'. It makes me wonder what the ideal world implied by such values would be like.

Assuming I accept that a .223 semi auto is high power military hardware, how do you keep these types of weapons out of the hands of psychopaths drug dealers gang bangers ect ? I'm all for it in theory.

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 3:50:47 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I would dare to say that this "person" fit's the bill for criminally insane, BUT
should situations like this, provide the impetus for extremely strict gun control legislation?

Depends how you defend "extremely strict": do you really need an assault rifle for any purpose besides something like this or a bank job? Any reasonable use of a gun (hunting and self defence are the two obvious ones, but there may be others) can be filled by a bolt action rifle, shotgun or handgun.

Many view this as an opportunity to jump on the "stricter gun control" issue.
I think most reasonable people don't feel that the average citizen should be able to purchase assault weapons for personal use, but if you want these types of weapons you will be able to obtain them.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 9

RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 3:58:53 PM

TheHeretic

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Well, Mari, first we need to know if he ever had any possible connection to the Tea Party, in which case this is all about the political ramifications, or if he had been associated in any way with the Occupists, in which case it's just the random act of a madman...

Individual ownership of firearms is a Constitutional right in our country. Unless anybody who matters is prepared to go there, that conversation is a circle-jerk.

(in reply to Marini)

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:05:40 PM

GrizzlyBear

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The problem of course, is that it is already illegal for the "psychopaths, drug pushers, gang-bangers, etc " to possess firearms, so additional laws against their possession will only be aimed at the law-abiding. The psychopaths, drug pushers, gang-bangers, etc. will still be able to get something sufficiently deadly to commit their atrocities with.

Up until the OK City bombing, the three largest mass murders in US history were all committed with gasoline. Should we outlaw gasoline, glass bottles, and Bic lighters too, just to keep them out of the hands of "psychopaths, drug pushers, gang-bangers, etc."?

The sick and evil mind is the weapon, not whatever chunk of inanimate plastic, wood, and metal that is used to commit the crime.

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:12:42 PM

TheHeretic

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Gasoline? How about cannisters and tanks of propane? Everybody in America with a gas grill, or a campstove, is a potential mad bomber.

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:13:02 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Well, Mari, first we need to know if he ever had any possible connection to the Tea Party, in which case this is all about the political ramifications, or if he had been associated in any way with the Occupists, in which case it's just the random act of a madman...

Individual ownership of firearms is a Constitutional right in our country. Unless anybody who matters is prepared to go there, that conversation is a circle-jerk.

I swear I didn't want to smile when I read your first line.
We are so polarized and partisan these days, that it appears every single
event is politicized.

How sad is our world??

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 13

RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:16:36 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

Assuming I accept that a .223 semi auto is high power military hardware,

It isn't the size of the projectile, it's the punch behind it.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 14

RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:19:24 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Gasoline? How about cannisters and tanks of propane? Everybody in America with a gas grill, or a campstove, is a potential mad bomber.

That's pretty much, the way I was thinking Rich.
They said he had all this information about how to create bombs, and all this sort of thing off the internet.

I have also been thinking about stricter laws on knives, especially butcher knives, and don't forget swords, martial arts equipment, hunting equipment, etc.

They say his apartment might have been booby trapped on the inside.

Did I read he was working towards his PhD?
Did he have a Master's Degree?
I am curious about his education.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/20/2012 4:39:24 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 15

RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:24:46 PM

Yachtie

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fr

I'm curious as to what involvement modern television and Hollywood movies play in desensitizing those more susceptible to committing violent acts? It ain't Gunsmoke or Bonanza anymore.

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:24:58 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I swear I didn't want to smile when I read your first line.
We are so polarized and partisan these days, that it appears every single
event is politicized.

How sad is our world??

That's interesting, Mari, because I wanted to smile, very much, while I was typing it, but couldn't.

It's a horrible thing. I'd much rather see "doing something" framed in terms of addressing mental illness (the reaction quote from the family leads me to think that is where the motive will be found - the mom seemed to know something was up), than in stupid, feel-good weapons restrictions.

(in reply to Marini)

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:29:53 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I have also been thinking about stricter laws on knives, especially butcher knives, and don't forget swords!

That's a funny thing, Mari. It's very rare for me to carry a firearm, but I have a couple of knives that simply live in my car. If my vehicle should ever be searched, the one in the toolkit in the back is ok, but the one I can grab from the driver's seat is an illegal weapon. Does that knowledge keep me from leaving it exactly where it is? Nope.

(in reply to Marini)

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:42:09 PM

erieangel

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Mental illness is a dirty word for some people. I couldn't tell you how many clients I've had in the past 4 years alone who denied they had a mental illness (even though they were in treatment, even though they took psychiatric drugs and even though had to have a mental illness to live where they were living).

The one and only thing that can destigmatize mental illness is for things like this to not reach national news with the bold faced type of having been committed by somebody with a mental illness. The fact is, most people with a mental illness will never commit a violent criminal act. The good works of people with mental illness are never mentioned. Most don't even remember that Mrs. Gore has had mental health problems herself. But every time somebody commits an atrocity like this one, mental illness comes to fore. It leads the less knowledgeable to believe that only the mentally ill commit these sorts of crimes. It also leads the less knowledgeable to believe that all of us who have a mental illness are psychopaths just waiting for any excuse to commit some terrible act of violence.

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 4:54:42 PM

TheHeretic

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I want to know why his mother was so quick to tell the media that they had the right person, Erie. Sorry if you need to wring your hands over those who might be stigmatized, but for the families of people who do need serious help they refuse to get, there is a conversation to be had.

(in reply to erieangel)

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