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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 7:32:22 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Check out Wiki's list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

Charles Starkweather killed 11, none wounded (a better shot?) at the tender age of 19.

I don't know. I caught the press conference, but the footage of the survivor grinning from ear to ear (because she was getting to be on TV, I suppose) while talking about the bloody baby, made me turn the tube back off.

At this point, I'm wondering about just what the cops were peering in at, through the windows of the apartment.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 7:33:15 PM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Lets see.... how can this be applied politically... Hmmm..... I know, lets paraphrase the lefts Dear Leader...

There are a lot of dead and wounded Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been shot in a crowded theater, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just enjoying a great movie. There are a lot of movie goers out there. It must be because I had a better seat than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of dead and wounded people out there. (Applause.)

If you were shot in a Batman movie, somebody along the line gave your attacker some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in his life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that took away your ability to defend yourself. Somebody invested in roads and bridges that got him to the theater. If you’ve been killed — James Holmes didn’t kill you. Somebody else made that happen. People don't get killed on their own. Government created the gun control laws so that all movie goers could get killed without being able to defend themselves.

The point is, is that when he killed you, liberals killed you because of our disdain for individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like defending your liberties, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had personal liberties. That would be a hard way to get yourself killed or wounded by random acts of violence when leave your homes.

Yup, hows that for political. If you're one of those damned idiots that believes roads and bridges and government are the only reason people succeed.... guess what? That means the same is true of crime and hunger, and disease.

James Holmes didn't kill 12 people and wound 50 others by himself.

Liberals did.

-SD-


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 7:36:40 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Check out Wiki's list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

Charles Starkweather killed 11, none wounded (a better shot?) at the tender age of 19.

I don't know. I caught the press conference, but the footage of the survivor grinning from ear to ear (because she was getting to be on TV, I suppose) while talking about the bloody baby, made me turn the tube back off.

At this point, I'm wondering about just what the cops were peering in at, through the windows of the apartment.


Well, the apartment is supposed to be booby trapped.
They probably used a lot of caution before going in there.
Didn't you seem them on a crane outside the window?

I have never seen that before.
Usually they just knock the front door down.
.
I just read online a few news reports, that state 14 are dead.


< Message edited by Marini -- 7/20/2012 7:39:25 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 7:37:16 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Can we call this an instance where the lack of medical care killed someone?


To be honest Tazzy, I think he had access to medical care.
Hell, he was young enough to still be on his parent's insurance.

Is it a lack of medical care or a refusal to SEEK psychiatric care?
If he had gone to an ER and told them what he planned to do, he
would probably have received medical care.

How many people in his frame of mind, SEEK psychiatric care?



If his parents still had insurance themselves. As to the rest, we dont have the answers yet. I do happen to know that the shooter we had here in Pittsburgh was a mental health patient who people had tried repeatedly to get care for.. even had physicians try and commit him.. and someone in the local government overrode that order.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/20/2012 7:38:23 PM >

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 7:47:14 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		I hope our government responds in a sane manner to these shootings. We have been down the prevention road. How much more prevention can we cope with? How much more prevention can we afford? As counter-intuitive as this may seem, we need to learn as a society to cope with tragedy. Perhaps we should do as the Amish did in all seriousness, erase the incident from our collective memory.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 7:50:55 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Marini there were sooooo many failures…as usual…and all were outside of legal carry laws…I believe. First were not some of the weapons he was using illegal? So gun control failed…Was there no red flag or regulations in buying body armor? Are there not laws against buying tear gas bombs…should that not at least be regulated if it is not ? Are there no laws and regulations for buying explosives?
I would guess that many laws and regulations were broken in his planning, purchasing, and possession of the materials he killed with.
So…I don’t think gun control would have stopped this massacre or would for anyone determined to kill.
To me gun control should be about accidental killings and suicides not drive by shootings or the actions of mad men. Those determined to kill will find weapons no matter what laws are on the books.
Butch


Actually, all the gun purchases were legal. Two at Gander Mountain in different cities and two in Denver's Bass Pro Shop.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-confirms-colorado-shooters-guns-purchased-legally/

Oh, shit. That's Fox News. Can't be true, then.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-20/colorado-shooting-suspect-avoided-gun-reporting-requirement-1-.html

Yep. It's true.

Was listening to the Glenn Beck show this morning and it was mentioned that Holmes dropped out of Med School a couple months ago.

And, just to show that this will be used in the political debate - no, sorry, it was used in the political debate already...

ABC Brian Ross

    quote:

    As the name of the suspect, identified as 24-year-old James Holmes, first emerged Friday morning, Ross reported on ABC News that he'd found a web page for a "Jim Holmes" on a Colorado Tea Party site.
    "There is a Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colorado, page on the Colorado Tea Party site as well, talking about him joining the Tea Party last year," Ross reported.
    He added: "Now we don't know if this is the same Jim Holmes, but it's Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colo."


I sure hope no one is surprised by this type of reporting. It's simply the way it's done now.

_____________________________

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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 7:53:30 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I hope our government responds in a sane manner to these shootings. We have been down the prevention road. How much more prevention can we cope with? How much more prevention can we afford? As counter-intuitive as this may seem, we need to learn as a society to cope with tragedy. Perhaps we should do as the Amish did in all seriousness, erase the incident from our collective memory.


Whatever you are smoking, I would like a puff.
I think that would be all that I need, one puff.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/20/2012 7:59:06 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 7:58:47 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I hope our government responds in a sane manner to these shootings. We have been down the prevention road. How much more prevention can we cope with? How much more prevention can we afford? As counter-intuitive as this may seem, we need to learn as a society to cope with tragedy. Perhaps we should do as the Amish did in all seriousness, erase the incident from our collective memory.


Whatever you are smoking, I would like a puff.
I think that would be all that I need, one puff.


I think we need as a nation need to come to grips with the fact that we are a bunch of panzis control freaks who can't cope.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:04:13 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

If you're one of those damned idiots that believes roads and bridges and government are the only reason people succeed.... guess what? That means the same is true of crime and hunger, and disease.


What the fuck are you talking about?

It's mental illness week, all right.

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:05:01 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Assuming I accept that a .223 semi auto is high power military hardware,




It isn't the size of the projectile, it's the punch behind it.




That's what she said.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:05:03 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Lets see.... how can this be applied politically... Hmmm..... I know, lets paraphrase the lefts Dear Leader...

There are a lot of dead and wounded Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been shot in a crowded theater, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just enjoying a great movie. There are a lot of movie goers out there. It must be because I had a better seat than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of dead and wounded people out there. (Applause.)

If you were shot in a Batman movie, somebody along the line gave your attacker some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in his life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that took away your ability to defend yourself. Somebody invested in roads and bridges that got him to the theater. If you’ve been killed — James Holmes didn’t kill you. Somebody else made that happen. People don't get killed on their own. Government created the gun control laws so that all movie goers could get killed without being able to defend themselves.

The point is, is that when he killed you, liberals killed you because of our disdain for individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like defending your liberties, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had personal liberties. That would be a hard way to get yourself killed or wounded by random acts of violence when leave your homes.

Yup, hows that for political. If you're one of those damned idiots that believes roads and bridges and government are the only reason people succeed.... guess what? That means the same is true of crime and hunger, and disease.
James Holmes didn't kill 12 people and wound 50 others by himself.

Liberals did.

-SD-

Surely you jest!
You have taken this horrific tragedy, and blamed it on a political party.

Did you say liberals are responsible for the shooting in the movie theater massacre last night?
There is so much wrong with what you wrote, it's too much for me to take on.

Are you this filled with rage and hate?
Maybe you need to check into a mental health facility.
Take them a copy of what you just typed, that will get you a bed.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/20/2012 8:16:58 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:08:30 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Admittedly, to say this is a little premature given that the incident occurred only so many hours ago, but from a mental health stand point it is called get over it. We have too much, not get over it. We shiver in our boots.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:10:35 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-confirms-colorado-shooters-guns-purchased-legally/

Oh, shit. That's Fox News. Can't be true, then.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-20/colorado-shooting-suspect-avoided-gun-reporting-requirement-1-.html

Yep. It's true.


You're learning. Multiple, independent sources. good job.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:17:19 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-confirms-colorado-shooters-guns-purchased-legally/

Oh, shit. That's Fox News. Can't be true, then.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-20/colorado-shooting-suspect-avoided-gun-reporting-requirement-1-.html

Yep. It's true.


You're learning. Multiple, independent sources. good job.


I noticed it too. Kudos DesideriScuri.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:19:02 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I'm gonna toss in my on the "More concealed carry would have prevented it vs stronger gun control would have prevented it"
I'd be willing to bet that the theater has, like most other public places of business, a "no weapons" sign.
What do law abiding permit holders do when they see such a sign? They leave it in the car or at home. Only a criminal carries weapons into a place where they are prohibited. No amount of gun control prevents criminals from carrying.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:23:48 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

You're learning. Multiple, independent sources. good job.


I really agree with this point!
Multiple sources is easy enough to get, but independent sources?
Not so easy these days.

I TRY to go for credible/mainstream sources like: CNN

Do you happen to have a list of multiple, independent sources, these days?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 8:36:53 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

One thing is the guns do not shoot people. The whole range of problems associated with war and violence propaganda can not be ignored. Mass media, television, big part of video game industry is basically involved with war and violence propaganda. What is the anatomy of this thing should be investigated.  How is CIA, NSA etc.., military involved in this? It is not just an innocent game. It is far more serious.

Thats right,guns don't shoot people...but having guns sure does make it easier for a person to shoot people doesn't it ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 9:24:26 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		tazzy there are many dangerous mentally ill people in this world that act and function just as normal as you or I...until they act. Good available healthcare will not stop these types of crimes. Even if they do show signs of problems it is not easy to force treatment in a free society.

I am with the stop the violent media of all kinds bunch...That would include games ...songs...movies and television...and...stop romanticizing these damn tragedies. There will be days and weeks of coverage, exactly what these nutcases are looking for.

Why not report the crimes and what is being done to prevent them in the future and forget the sensationalism that the media loves. In fact I would think it best if they don't even say the killers name...sure as hell stop plastering his sick similing picture all over the media.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/20/2012 9:31:55 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 10:28:04 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Assuming I accept that a .223 semi auto is high power military hardware,




It isn't the size of the projectile, it's the punch behind it.










I get that but the point of that line was that the .223 is not high power. Even though it's a high velocity round the 55 - 65 grain bullet is not a hard impact or substantial penetrater such as a 30.06 or a 308 which are in the high power class.



.223 round is the standard for many armies, US included. It is reported that he also had a .40 Glock and a 12 guage shot gun, 12 people died and some 59 wounded, isn't that enough? At the close range in the theather and the fact he was the only one wearing armor, just how much power does a weapon have to be to kill somone? Also consider that the Bettra .22 is very popular and used effectively by The Mossad, Israel Intelligence.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? - 7/20/2012 10:41:55 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Apparenty according to elected republicans......who speak for and represent republican voters......it`s because of "attacks on Judeo/Christian beliefs"


“You know what really gets me, as a Christian, is to see the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and then some senseless crazy act of a derelict takes place.

Then Gohmert went further to blame secularism:


“People say … where was God in all of this?” Gohmert said. “We’ve threatened high school graduation participations, if they use God’s name, they’re going to be jailed … I mean that kind of stuff. Where was God? What have we done with God? We don’t want him around. I kind of like his protective hand being present.”

Finally, he retreated into the fantasy land of right wing heroics:


“It does make me wonder, with all those people in the theater, was there nobody that was carrying a gun that could have stopped this guy more quickly?”

Colorado does allow concealed weapons to be carried.

Over the next few days, we will learn the details of what drove the killer and who died and who was wounded.

There will be speculation and accusations and condemnations.

What will not happen is an adult conversation about whether allowing anyone who wants one to buy an assault rifle.

Any suggestion of limiting the sale of weapons of mass murder will be screamed down as “tyranny” and “politicizing a tragedy” even as Rep.

Gohmert already took it to the extreme realms of tastelessness.

Even as calls for an apology are issued and the right freaks out in his defense, no one will seriously talk about getting these weapons off our streets.

After all, liberals are just trying to use this for political gain, right?"





http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07/20/republican-rushes-to-politicize-colorado-dark-knight-rises-tragedy-blames-attacks-on-judeo-christian-beliefs/

_____________________________

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President Obama

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 60
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