RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 4 [5]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/12/2012 5:08:54 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

Nope, but thanks for the warning, LOL, now I won't but if you're interested, I could mail you some of Alfie's - particularly interesting as we had a 5 hour walk yesterday and he made friends with some horses on the field and ate a lot of horsepoo....

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 81

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/12/2012 9:42:08 PM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
I would love to hear the scientific explanation for women's periods making them incapable of leadership, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

Where did he say that? How fascinating!

SLV, are there specific bowel problems, perhaps, that can have the same effect on men?

It's in his profile, but I just thought, whilst we were discussing science.

I asked for the research since I'm due to review my birth control, I want to know if stopping my periods will give me better career prospects or even turn me into a domme.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 82

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/12/2012 11:49:43 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
I asked for the research since I'm due to review my birth control, I want to know if stopping my periods will give me better career prospects or even turn me into a domme.

Wow! What an incredibly useful guy! You chicks are lucky! I don't think us men can get more dominant or gain promotions with a pill.

PS: I'm recruiting your help on the tags thread.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 83

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/13/2012 7:28:21 AM

Nslavu

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenintoshadow

quote:

Where does your self go when it's lost?...

Nslavu, it wouldn't be funny if there weren't some truth in it. Never having been this deep before, I do not know if it's even possible to lose ones self at all. Hence what a lot of this discussion is about or at least what prompted it.

Thank you for extending the stonecutter metaphor. I like your notion of polishing facets in this context and your hint as how they can relate to "self".

It would be nice to get get back to the discussion. I agree with the intrinsic value of humor, as poor as it was.

In another post you mentioned your art as being a primary factor in feeling like you're losing your self. I suspect art isn't the only issue that comes up for subs or slaves, that would contribute to a sense of losing one's self.

Since both myself and my 's' are artistically inclined, we have had several conversations on the topic. For her it is mostly about the act of creating in an unfettered way. She does commercial art at times, but is not too crazy about it. It's palatable in that it provides some income reward and sometimes exposure and a certain amount of gratification; but the thrust of her issue is to be able to create art for the sake of creating art, without external guidelines or even guidance. She does not want to be an 'art ho' in her words.

On the other hand there's times when she is tickled pink when asked to do something for someone. Something I understand very well. While I suspect there are some artists who have no problem with art on demand, I woud imagine that the issue at it's core is the desire to be the one choosing. For some there's one or two aspects of self that are more 'sacred'? .. and hence becomes a fear of losing a part one's self, that they cherish.

There are parts of her that are more easily surrendered obviously but I would ask why this one part is more her, or you as an artist, than any other part. Is this how you define your self? Is the definition itself constrained? It woud be like her saying "I've already tied myself up in this area, sorry i'm surrendering to my prior definition of self right now."

Is it really who you are and can who you are, be expanded upon? Are there other sides to you that you're not seeing that would also 'become' you?

Most times I think, feeling a loss of self is relative to one's past defining moments and when one finds something in themselves that generates good feelings or perhaps improved self esteem, enjoyment, maybe self approval? , they have a harder time surrendering that part because it has contributed so much to their sense of who they are.

I imagine this happens with others who may knit or cook or run or some other activity that they perceive as a bigger part of their self definition. The question becomes, is there room for expansion and do you trust the person who is facilitating what essentially takes you away from your comfort zone.

It's an interesting topic of self perception. (feelings included) Are you losing self or becoming self?

(in reply to fallenintoshadow)

Post #: 84

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/13/2012 10:57:08 AM

fallenintoshadow

Posts: 13
Joined: 7/24/2012
Status: offline

quote:

It's an interesting topic of self perception. (feelings included) Are you losing self or becoming self?

Nslavu, That is a truly interesting question. What's become apparent however is that I do not want my "self" being solely "just blood/bones/skin/air/water" to quote from a private conversation.

(in reply to Nslavu)

Post #: 85

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/13/2012 12:20:25 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu
For some there's one or two aspects of self that are more 'sacred'? .. and hence becomes a fear of losing a part one's self, that they cherish.

The normal way I visualize people when I'm evaluating their mind is with two concentric circles. The outer one is "everything which I care about". The inner one is "That which is necessary". Some people (Carol & myself among them), seem to have a very, very small inner circle. Accordingly, we are very malleable -- chameleons by nature. For others (my previous wife who I respect greatly - not bashing) have an inner circle which fills most of their outer circle. So she was not very flexible.

Art, I think, is in a special category of "creativity". I strongly suspect that by it's very nature creativity requires a fair amount of free-agency. If I told Carol to paint a certain painting a certain way it would not be a creative act for her. It would be a technical function. So I suspect that if I routinely commanded her art I would effectively be taking it away from her. For some people that might not be a problem but obviously it would be for a real art type. I suspect that for Carol taking that away from her would strike as deeply as taking my honor away from me.

I wouldn't want to quote such a thing as any sort of literal truth, but I've always like this.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Nslavu)

Post #: 86

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/13/2012 2:24:50 PM

Nslavu

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenintoshadow

quote:

It's an interesting topic of self perception. (feelings included) Are you losing self or becoming self?

Nslavu, That is a truly interesting question. What's become apparent however is that I do not want my "self" being solely "just blood/bones/skin/air/water" to quote from a private conversation.

you're at a crossroads and the essence of this is your perception of what makes you, you; because otherwise, like all of the rest of us, you are exactly what you say, blood, bones, water, a compendium of cells and chemicals. They are in fact your first attachment to this world.

If you don't/can't/won't allow your perception of you to change, then you'll likely remain in your present perception of you. (Whether that is fear/desire driven or not is irrelevant) Is that what you want, or don't want? As long as you have a perception of you, (whatever that is), then there's a you, feeling and experiencing as you always have.

(in reply to fallenintoshadow)

Post #: 87

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/13/2012 5:07:25 PM

Nslavu

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu
For some there's one or two aspects of self that are more 'sacred'? .. and hence becomes a fear of losing a part one's self, that they cherish.

The normal way I visualize people when I'm evaluating their mind is with two concentric circles. The outer one is "everything which I care about". The inner one is "That which is necessary". Some people (Carol & myself among them), seem to have a very, very small inner circle. Accordingly, we are very malleable -- chameleons by nature. For others (my previous wife who I respect greatly - not bashing) have an inner circle which fills most of their outer circle. So she was not very flexible.

Art, I think, is in a special category of "creativity". I strongly suspect that by it's very nature creativity requires a fair amount of free-agency. If I told Carol to paint a certain painting a certain way it would not be a creative act for her. It would be a technical function. So I suspect that if I routinely commanded her art I would effectively be taking it away from her. For some people that might not be a problem but obviously it would be for a real art type. I suspect that for Carol taking that away from her would strike as deeply as taking my honor away from me.

I wouldn't want to quote such a thing as any sort of literal truth, but I've always like this.

I think, and this is really just from my observations, that the management of abstract perceptions is probably at the root of handling a slave.

Honor, as you've used in a 'loss' comparison, is no less an abstract than creativity is. Even the offering that someone is by far more knowledgeable and therefore wiser than the rest of us is an abstract notion. (not mentioning any names) They have dependencies on one's perception and a certain amount of belief in them.

What can be taken away from my slave can only be something that is perceived as hers by her. As well, even if taken away, that too is perception of loss, when in fact it (that notion) is probably still there in tact and ready to use, as the same abstract notion she held before she gave in to the notion of losing it.

I agree with the thrust of your comments Jeff, though I think it likely applies to a wide range of individual 'sacred' activities, as well as perhaps a confluence of lessor held activities that contribute to general 'loss of self' feelings.

Individuality is mutable; because, it's an array of abstract notions all conspiring to be you. It gets confirmed or disaffirmed in an active reality of course but those abstracts are at the root.

And .. as perceptions go, that's mine. (determinism made me do it!

)

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 88

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/13/2012 6:07:30 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

I agree. This is pretty much what I say about "freedom" -- at least I think it is... I also think you're smarter than me so I may not be following along properly.

A person feels "free" when the restrictions placed on them more or less match the restrictions they think ought to be placed on them. This is why a person can find "freedom" in "slavery".

I certainly agree that nobody can experience loss for something that didn't perceive was theirs to start with. I also agree that "the management of abstract perceptions is probably at the root of handling a slave." Well... depending on what you mean by "slave" I suppose that's true. In any sort of internal enslavement sense it'd have to be (and dear lord, I need to come up with a new phrase to indicate that simply because I hate being associated with IE).

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Nslavu)

Post #: 89

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/14/2012 11:32:49 AM

Nslavu

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I agree. This is pretty much what I say about "freedom" -- at least I think it is... I also think you're smarter than me so I may not be following along properly.

I think there could be serious room for debate there. Smart, being another relative perception.

quote:

A person feels "free" when the restrictions placed on them more or less match the restrictions they think ought to be placed on them. This is why a person can find "freedom" in "slavery".

I would agree, hence limits and those pesky no trespassing signs. The operative word would be 'think'. I prefer to be purposeful as regards thinking.

quote:

I certainly agree that nobody can experience loss for something that didn't perceive was theirs to start with. I also agree that "the management of abstract perceptions is probably at the root of handling a slave." Well... depending on what you mean by "slave" I suppose that's true.

Actually the OP concerns slaves, so I was being myopically topical in that sense; but the management criteria holds for all people including one's self. Any definition of slave is really irrelevant. My opinion of course.

quote:

In any sort of internal enslavement sense it'd have to be

One should at least attempt for it to be under that condition.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 90

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/14/2012 12:33:16 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SLVPropertyOwner

Will the people who spend half their lives studying and researching this behavioral this type of issue please stand up.... Hmmmmm nobody, will the people who have at least read over 20 books concerning personality and behavior please stand up.... Hmmmm nobody... Okay then will the people that have no serious education or research background on this subject and are only speaking from their gut or opinion please stand up... Finally so everybody standing up now.

Okay, I probably pissed off the number of people who believe themselves to be amateur experts on the subject or at least to think that their opinion matters. The problem with these forums is that too many people have much too great of a opinion in their own self knowledge and opinions meaning that they don't have a clue and are giving out bad information. This is nothing more than a group of strangers you might find downtown New York that are totally clueless on any subject and yet far too many people believe the opinions of the strangers. It is a sad world indeed

In reviewing these comments, although some are astute and some are logical... I really haven't seen any that are accurate. Once again these forms do nothing more than perpetuate extremely bad information as well as bad opinions and those that are searching for truth are folded into thinking that they would find some truth on the forums.

If one takes these forums specifically as bad advice or opinion, and does not take any of these opinions or advice seriously, then it can be a good source of entertainment if one waste your time reading these things. You can actually identify the self-serving people that put themselves on a pedestal thinking that they are the big fish in a little pond by looking at how many times they post. These are usually the overcompensating insecure people that have thousands of posts because that's is their only life. They sit behind their computer online hiding from the real world us putting on a façade and pretending to be an expert at everything.

This is of course why you very rarely if ever find me on these forms. But the matter-of-fact is this, I have spent over 30 years studying behavior and psychology including anthropology neuroscience and many other sciences, I also have several degrees and I did have my own practice at one time. So you can flame me for whatever you want, but I am speaking from a sound base of knowledge both intuitive, educational, and experiential.

Many words, none addressing the topic.

I will await enlightenment with bated breath.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to SLVPropertyOwner)

Post #: 91

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 8/15/2012 2:24:11 PM

PerfectSurrender

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/29/2006
From: Saint Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline

I consider the loss of self to be more so a loss of barriers when it comes to total connection. Not a factual loss of self.
It's more a guidance of potential.

Anyone capable of actually making me lose myself would certainly be replacing it with something far better. That's
because I have a strong personality that, in a lot of ways, works for me. If such a strong force came into my life
that She could overpower that then I would welcome the addition to or deconstruction of my psyche. I feel a
few butterflies just thinking about an intellect and character that direct and hard hitting.

But the potential for that addition or deconstruction of my psyche would have had to of been there to begin with.
It is then again not a loss of self but rather a transition.

Fear of that transition is equal to fear of any other transition. How work, family, the quality of our car or the
value of our metropolitan area impacts our character are all normal sources of worry. At least in the case
of M/s you have a structured and hopefully positive kind of direction happening.

That's my modest opinion and response to your question.

Cheers

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 92

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 9/22/2012 2:46:30 PM

soldierlvr

Posts: 20
Joined: 9/14/2012
Status: offline

IMHO, to become a slave you have to lose your idividuality. You are no longer your own person. You are giving yourself completely to another person. Master and I have been together for three years. I have changed SO much since being with him, all for the better. I am not my own person. I am an extension of him.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 93

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 9/22/2012 3:01:41 PM

soldierlvr

Posts: 20
Joined: 9/14/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
I would love to hear the scientific explanation for women's periods making them incapable of leadership, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

Where did he say that? How fascinating!

SLV, are there specific bowel problems, perhaps, that can have the same effect on men?

It's in his profile, but I just thought, whilst we were discussing science.

I asked for the research since I'm due to review my birth control, I want to know if stopping my periods will give me better career prospects or even turn me into a domme.

Why would birth control make your career prospects better? I have never, ever (well back when I worked) had a job ask me if I had periods before I could be promoted.....and why would that turn you into a domme? Do domme's not have periods?

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 94

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 9/25/2012 7:45:33 PM

pidepiper7

Posts: 12
Joined: 9/25/2012
Status: offline

Is being a submissive really about being submissive and losing any of one's individuality? I'm skeptical ... Seems to me that all of this is about something else entirely?

For example, suppose your Master forbade you from being a submissive even though that's what YOU wanted? Would any one here honestly sacrifice BDSM because their Master forbade it?

It seems unlikely to me but then I know nothing about this. So where's the sacrifice? Where's the loss of individuality? What's really going on?

Or am I mistaken and would all submissives do as they're told and give up being a submissive if ordered to?

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 95

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 9/25/2012 8:22:10 PM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pidepiper7

Is being a submissive really about being submissive and losing any of one's individuality? I'm skeptical ... Seems to me that all of this is about something else entirely?

For example, suppose your Master forbade you from being a submissive even though that's what YOU wanted? Would any one here honestly sacrifice BDSM because their Master forbade it?

It seems unlikely to me but then I know nothing about this. So where's the sacrifice? Where's the loss of individuality? What's really going on?

Or am I mistaken and would all submissives do as they're told and give up being a submissive if ordered to?

Dominance and submission are about control and who has the power in the relationship. As a submissive, I choose to defer my will to that of my fiance. He leads, I follow.

If, for example, he wants to watch sports on TV and I hate sports, we will watch sports. If he hates brussel sprouts, then I will no longer make them for dinner when we are together. If he wants me to have long hair, then I keep it long. In essence, he makes the decisions and I follow his lead. For some couples, this power exchange only takes place in the bedroom (for us it is everywhere).

Dominance and submission are different from sadism and masochism. The former is about receiving/giving control and the latter is about giving/receiving pain. One can be a sadistic submissive or a masochistic dominant.

I will ALWAYS be a submissive, but if he said "no more kink" then I would follow his lead and vanilla sex it would be.

Does that help?

< Message edited by searching4mysir -- 9/25/2012 8:23:56 PM >

_____________________________

No longer searching -- found my one and only right here on CM

(in reply to pidepiper7)

Post #: 96

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 9/25/2012 9:07:16 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

If he told me to stop being submissive I would be scratching my head and wondering how I could stop being me. It's my personality trait. I'm submissive in pretty much every part of my life....how I speak to others, how I place my body situated by another, how I breathe, eat, sleep, etc.....

That would be like me asking Master to stop being dominant. I don't think he would know how to even do that. It's who he is. It's how he reacts to people in general, not just on collarme.com.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 97

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 9/27/2012 3:10:32 PM

hellioncheriecpl

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/27/2012
Status: offline

I think it can be concern, which is why you do stuff to help you pick someone who is compatible with what you like and don't like and what you are kinda interested in and kinda not.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 98

RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood - 11/21/2012 12:32:52 PM

fallenintoshadow

Posts: 13
Joined: 7/24/2012
Status: offline

Stopping in to say that after suspending my search to figure out where I really am with all of this, I have begun again in earnest.

Thanks everyone who contributed to this discussion. I found it most helpful.

Happy Thanksgiving to those of you in the USA.

(in reply to hellioncheriecpl)

Post #: 99

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 4 [5]

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: Loss of individuality when entering slavehood

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 4 [5]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.094