quote:

There are many, many forms of coercion. You have but touched on a few you thought you were smart enough to understand.

quote:

Once past the age of viability, no, its not ok, and our laws prevent that from happening unless there are medical requirements to do so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

No. We can not. What is the "age of viability?" Is that getting through the 2nd trimester? Why is it at that point the tumor (unwanted growth of human cells) mooching off the host (the mother) suddenly has rights, even though it has yet to be born?

Because, at that point, its now viable outside the womb.

quote:

quote:

Interesting to note: If you hit [ctrl]-F, it should open a search dialog within your browser. Search the word, "fetus." It has two (prior to this post). Both of the instances were your words. Not mine. Not farglebargle's. Why did you feel it necessary to bring that word into this?

Because you felt it necessary to take the conversation to that point.

quote:

Had someone had a fertilized egg implanted without their consent, we have a completely different conversation. In any case of non-consensual intercourse resulting in a pregnancy, totally different discussion.

Lets go further... define consent. Coercion is not consent... date rape is not consent... being drunk and fucking is not consent. A woman who takes all the precautions to avoid pregnancy is gets pregnant is not consent to pregnancy.
Wouldnt it be amazing if men had to deal with this issue for just one year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Please define coercion. Charm beyond your control, or physical force which equated to rape? If you get so drunk that your legs fall open, then your premise of "Taking all precautions is not quite correct. Don't drink so much. You will be held responsible if you drive this way, Not just for yourself, but for passengers and stray pedestrians.

Yes, and yet if that same person tries to enter a contract, its not legally enforceable under the law. So why are we holding them legally responsible now? If I go to the bar with the intention of drinking, knowing i have to drive myself home, then yes, I am responsible. If I go to the bar by cab, with the intention of taking a cab home after I get drunk... guess what? nothing happens. The driving aspect is not the same here. No one is pushing me to drive, in fact, many will probably tell me not too. What are the chances a man will tell me not to fuck?

quote:

Date rape is a problem. as a precaution, take a chaperon with you and stay in public areas until you are ready to get married.

Ah, now you want to place women under formal protection.. very archaic, no? Cute theory though.

quote:

Have your dad, big brother, burly friend put an arm around your date and assure him that there is nothing he can do to you that your Dad, brother, or burly firend can't do to him. If you say "No" then your date will remember that threat and stop. He'll whine, but that is when your precautions should include telling yourself "No means No"

So now, your response is encouraging people to communicate a threat. We are now trading one law violation for another.

quote:

My pro life stance gets a bit fuzzy when health (not just inconvenience) of the mother or child (yes, child) is in danger, or when a rape is involved. While i am very pro life, people have free will for a reason.

There are many, many forms of coercion. You have but touched on a few you thought you were smart enough to understand.

quote:

But, if it's not born yet, does it still have rights? And, how is "viability" determined and defined?

quote:

Coercion is not consent. Completely agree.
Date rape is not consent. Completely agree.
Being drunk and fucking is not consent. That's a touchy situation. If the only reason the two were fucking was because one got drunk, then, yes.
Having intercourse is consenting to accept the responsibilities and consequences of that action. Can I sue the Lottery Commission because I did not consent to not winning? Yes, the odds are flipped around, but that has nothing to do with it. If you engage in a risky behavior, regardless of how much you have done to prevent the consequences, you are consenting to all the possible consequences of the risky behavior.

It must be fun in your world where you can do what the fuck ever and not be responsible for the consequences of your actions.

quote:

You did not comment on the thought of carrying a personal level of protection (knife, gun, cattle prod, tazer, pepper spray, boat horn etc) and not relying on someone else. a handful of keys or a roll of nicklels can make a good weapon without requiring license or explanation.

quote:

That is no threat if

quote:

Coercion, I interpreted as someone literally or figuratively holding a gun to one's head. That is why I requested that you clarify your use of the word. Most of my solutions will slow someone down or deter unwanted advances is a simple "No" doesn't work.

quote:

Please define coercion.

quote:

mmaculate Conception aside,

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Attribute the Sharia reference to Hillwilliam, sorry, did not mean to lump all that together.

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Debating with myself to try to present that we are pretty much in agreement as to what constitutes coercion, although begging has been a great amusement to milady, in some instances your "coercion" is a form of foreplay. I do realize that is often a clear or blurred line of consent. I am not quite sure how to increase or guage a partner's self esteem to see where "you are so hot" becomes a threat or an insult (Used in 2 of these descriptions) Love me or lose me, or other variations seem a bit hazy. I do suppose that part of the problem is that it is hard to tell whether this stems from a desire to be a victim

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

They are not the only ones with that type of belief. In the US 1 or 2 hundred years ago that was the way things worked. I proposed it as a potential deterrent to date rape, and uncontrolled drunken sex. Not a perfect solution, perhaps. and not a welcome solution it seems. Apparently neither is abstinence nor chastity as recommended in the Catholic church.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

But, if it's not born yet, does it still have rights? And, how is "viability" determined and defined?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

quote:

quote:

Coercion is not consent. Completely agree.
Date rape is not consent. Completely agree.
Being drunk and fucking is not consent. That's a touchy situation. If the only reason the two were fucking was because one got drunk, then, yes.
Having intercourse is consenting to accept the responsibilities and consequences of that action. Can I sue the Lottery Commission because I did not consent to not winning? Yes, the odds are flipped around, but that has nothing to do with it. If you engage in a risky behavior, regardless of how much you have done to prevent the consequences, you are consenting to all the possible consequences of the risky behavior.
It must be fun in your world where you can do what the fuck ever and not be responsible for the consequences of your actions.

Just as much fun as it must be in your world when you can do whatever the hell you want and blame it on someone else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

mmaculate Conception aside,

The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's birth, not Jesus'. It's the belief that Mary was born without original sin, which taints the rest of us till washed away in Baptism.
Forgive me for picking a nit, but it's a theo-linguistical peeve of mine. Fifteen years of Catholic school will do that to a guy.