RE: Your Right To Life Support....

RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (Full Version)

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atursvcMaam -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/23/2012 7:47:50 PM)
Wow, as you choose to misread what is said, and inject what is on your mind might i respectfully recommend that you take your head out of your ass? I don't know what you were discussing. I read that someone used all possible birth control solutions. I recommended that a few had not been mentioned. I did stipulate that my solutions would not stop a determined rapist. I do believe in greater punishments than are allowed by US law, and might coincide with what little i know of Sharia Law, but i am happy to accept the law of the country where i choose to live. I was discussing the meanings and possible protections against coercion. While I am a sub, and committed, i fail to see where offering potential solutions to aggressive/coercive males subjugates the female of the species. In fact it allows them the opportunity to make choices without beng coerced. The intent is to elevate them to the level they deserve. The articles which she used to describe coercion claimed that the victims of coercion were there from lack of self confidence. Their words, not mine. My advice and concern would be no different to a male who found himself in a position of being coerced, and found it distasteful. To me this would be a much rarer occurence, possibly because I might explain that I might find such a situation desirable.

tazzygirl -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/23/2012 8:46:03 PM)
quote: Already read that, tazzy. You do realize that 1/5 of infants born at 23 weeks (5 weeks prior to the "third trimester"). And, there has been a baby that survived being born at 21 weeks. Is there any change in viability that relies on the medical care possibilities? I mean, we can keep a brain dead person technically "alive" with all sorts of machines and interventions, but does that mean they are really alive? What sort of medical intervention can be used to keep a developing fetus "alive?" Yes, one survived at 21.6 weeks gestation... Amillia Taylor Tiny “miracle babies” make for heartwarming stories, but the reality is that nearly half of all infants born extremely premature have significant learning and physical disabilities by the time they reach school age, the largest such study found. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6790571/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/#.UDb328FlTvY quote: Really?!? You are asserting the guy who believes in "personal responsibility" does whatever he wants and blames it on someone else?!? If they are both drunk, who gets the blame when she ends up pregnant? And who ends up denying the pregnancy if she ends up keeping the pregnancy? quote: We are arguing about a man and a woman who have entered into consensual intercourse that resulted in her getting pregnant. Even if they used protection and took steps, if she got pregnant from their fucking, she knew ahead of time that she could get pregnant, and neither should be off scott free. No, you are arguing consensual... I am talking about coercion. And an abortion is hardly scott free.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/23/2012 10:28:59 PM)
quote: Yes, one survived at 21.6 weeks gestation... Amillia Taylor Tiny “miracle babies” make for heartwarming stories, but the reality is that nearly half of all infants born extremely premature have significant learning and physical disabilities by the time they reach school age, the largest such study found. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6790571/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/#.UDb328FlTvY 100% of babies aborted in the post viable stage fail to meet any educational or developmental milestones. They encounter insurmountable obstacles to learning and physical abilities and don't reach school age. No study that i am aware of. but where there's life there's hope. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57KDDKbfhmI The alternative kind of sickens me, how about you? quote: If they are both drunk, who gets the blame when she ends up pregnant? And who ends up denying the pregnancy if she ends up keeping the pregnancy? Don't drink with people you can't trust, maybe. Some of us have quit drinking for waking up in the wrong place, or under the wrong circumstances. Don't get quite so drunk that you don't know whose shoulder you are leaning on, or whose arms you are in. Hell, if he's an asshat now, he won't really get better with a few drinks.

tazzygirl -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/23/2012 11:44:28 PM)
quote: 100% of babies aborted in the post viable stage fail to meet any educational or developmental milestones. They encounter insurmountable obstacles to learning and physical abilities and don't reach school age. No study that i am aware of. but where there's life there's hope. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57KDDKbfhmI The alternative kind of sickens me, how about you? The flip side of that is medical... the cost of attempting to safe a life a woman's body is naturally rejecting can be in the millions. quote: Don't drink with people you can't trust, maybe. Some of us have quit drinking for waking up in the wrong place, or under the wrong circumstances. Don't get quite so drunk that you don't know whose shoulder you are leaning on, or whose arms you are in. Hell, if he's an asshat now, he won't really get better with a few drinks. Which is why, on my son's 21st birthday, he went club hopping with friends, with me in tow. Im a pretty cool mom.. even got him his first titty shot... but most dont have that ability to know when that point is to stop until the damage is done and its too late. Forget what its like to be a kid? Or are you insisting they should all be mature adults like you with all your knowledge you have gained over the years... but they should have it instantly?

atursvcMaam -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 12:19:49 AM)
quote: The flip side of that is medical... the cost of attempting to safe a life a woman's body is naturally rejecting can be in the millions. As is the cost of maintaining one of the unfortunate 50 % of your article. I still prefer that to the alternative. I consider each day a blessing and no day a promise for any life. I regret none of my own choices, but would not enforce my choices on others. If the issue is medical, then one's heart is a good guide, and your spiirit if one is so inclined. My Dad always said that children bring their own luck. I have never had a reason to consider him a liar. quote: Which is why, on my son's 21st birthday, he went club hopping with friends, with me in tow. Im a pretty cool mom.. even got him his first titty shot... but most dont have that ability to know when that point is to stop until the damage is done and its too late. Forget what its like to be a kid? Or are you insisting they should all be mature adults like you with all your knowledge you have gained over the years... but they should have it instantly? I actually remember one piece of advice from when i was young, and as archaic and saccharine as it might sound, it has stayed with me and been a standing rule in my life drunk or sober. I was told that I should never bed someone with whom I would not consider spending the rest of my life.

tweakabelle -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 1:20:22 AM)
quote: erieangel It is an interesting question. Both scenarios assume a "right to life". This is a very interesting idea, erieangel. Thanks for the suggestion. There may be some advantages to putting this, and all 'right-to-life'-related issues under the same umbrella. It seems to me that most people would agree that we all have a right to life. Framing discussions around such issues as abortion, the death penalty, turning off life support systems, euthanasia etc could be enhanced by adopting this perspective. For instance, the abortion debate could be reduced to one of whether, and at which point an embryo is a (legally speaking) human being with rights. In most other cases, people would have to make the case why the right to life does not apply in the particular instance. I'm not convinced that it would succeed in moving discussion forwards on all of these issues, but it does seem to offer some promise.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 2:45:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I haven't checked off the organ donor box on my license nor would I use organs harvested from someone else. Thanks but, just let me expire. I have an issue with medical science helping us die young as late in life as is possible. I swear I'm not a Jehovah's Witness but I just don't see the need to hang on to life so desperately that I would be willing to use the organs of some other poor person whose doctor probably didn't do everything they could to save them so that their organs could be harvested more quickly or easily. I want the doctor to do everything possible to save me with what they have to work with. I don't want them making their own version of Dr. Frankenstein's (That's pronounced: "Fronkenshteen") monster. Nope. I came into the world with certain body parts and I'll leave with whichever ones I manage to keep. Peace and comfort, Michael That is so unbelievably offensive. You must watch far too much fiction on t.v.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 2:54:45 AM)
Actually, I know quite a few doctors and have one in my family. I know that some doctors are more concerned with "harvesting" than "saving". As for my opinion, based on anecdotal evidence being "offensive"? Really? Someone with a differing opinion to yours is offensive? It sounds like I may have touched a nerve but feel free to ignore me, in the future because my belief on this won't change until I start meeting doctors that don't make that observation to me. Peace and comfort, Michael

DeviantlyD -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 3:04:37 AM)
I can guarantee you that I know more physicians than you do and I call bullshit on your claims.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 3:09:14 AM)
Oh. You call bullshit? That's different. I'm on board, now. I'm heading to MVS in three hours to go change my donor status because of your fine argument. Quick search I didn't read any of the links because I gave up doing peoples' research for them, a long time ago. I know there was a case in California, some time ago but I am not sure of the outcome. Be that as it may, I'm quite sure that the only person who knows for sure why they're doing what they're doing is the doctor and they're unlikely to admit guilt. I do know that I have lost many family members to long illness and in almost every case, we have been approached by vultures asking us to give permission for organ harvesting before death. While that's not a crime, the thought repulses me. So, do I think it goes on with transients or even with people whose families have no knowledge? I'm almost sure it does and I want no part of someone else's blood on my hands. Peace and comfort, Michael

tweakabelle -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 3:46:24 AM)
quote: DaddySatyr Actually, I know quite a few doctors and have one in my family. I know that some doctors are more concerned with "harvesting" than "saving". If these people actually exist, they should be reported to the AMA or other proper authority immediately. Personally I doubt that they do exist. I'm no fan of the medical profession but this claim is so revolting it stretches credulity. The information you have supplied thus far in no way supports your claim. Canvassing for potential donors is a perfectly legitimate thing to do, even though many people may share your negative reaction to it, especially when it occurs during a time of extreme stress. Nor would finding a link to some isolated case in another State confirm your claim that "I know that some doctors are more concerned with "harvesting" than "saving"". Your claim was that you "know some doctors" engaged in this repulsive endeavour. That makes it a case of put up or shut up.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 4:42:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam Wow, as you choose to misread what is said, and inject what is on your mind might i respectfully recommend that you take your head out of your ass? I don't know what you were discussing. I read that someone used all possible birth control solutions. I recommended that a few had not been mentioned. I did stipulate that my solutions would not stop a determined rapist. I do believe in greater punishments than are allowed by US law, and might coincide with what little i know of Sharia Law, but i am happy to accept the law of the country where i choose to live. I was discussing the meanings and possible protections against coercion. While I am a sub, and committed, i fail to see where offering potential solutions to aggressive/coercive males subjugates the female of the species. In fact it allows them the opportunity to make choices without beng coerced. The intent is to elevate them to the level they deserve. The articles which she used to describe coercion claimed that the victims of coercion were there from lack of self confidence. Their words, not mine. My advice and concern would be no different to a male who found himself in a position of being coerced, and found it distasteful. To me this would be a much rarer occurence, possibly because I might explain that I might find such a situation desirable. I didnt misread what you said. I quoted it exactly. You even linked it with your experiences in a muslim-majority country (Turkey). Now you're twisting and squirming when I pointed out the dichotomy of a man who feels a woman should be superior over him paraphasing Sharia Law when it suits his political purposes. Don't twist in the wind, whine and get all squirmy when someone points out your self contradictions. Get your head (or rather some pundit's hand) out of your own ass and quit contradicting yourself and parroting platitudes that you heard from someone on the TV or Radio without actually thinking about them. You're being Emu to someone elses Rod Hull and it isnt your Mistress with their hand up your ass in this case.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 5:29:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: erieangel It is an interesting question. Both scenarios assume a "right to life". This is a very interesting idea, erieangel. Thanks for the suggestion. There may be some advantages to putting this, and all 'right-to-life'-related issues under the same umbrella. It seems to me that most people would agree that we all have a right to life. Framing discussions around such issues as abortion, the death penalty, turning off life support systems, euthanasia etc could be enhanced by adopting this perspective. For instance, the abortion debate could be reduced to one of whether, and at which point an embryo is a (legally speaking) human being with rights. In most other cases, people would have to make the case why the right to life does not apply in the particular instance. I'm not convinced that it would succeed in moving discussion forwards on all of these issues, but it does seem to offer some promise. Here is where we completely agree, tweakabelle. The Pro-Life side tends to count an embryo as a human being significantly earlier than the Pro Choice side (ignore for a moment that some are so severe in their thinking that fertilization is that time). I've been told (by many mothers I know), that the making it through the first trimester is a huge milestone in a pregnancy. The risk of miscarriage drops significantly (not that it's zero at any point prior to birth). Could it be considered that getting through the first trimester is that point at which the bag o' cells is now a human being with human rights? According to the human embryogenesis wiki, an embryo transitions to a fetus about 8 weeks after implantation (and it did make the statement that the 8 week point was arbitrarily chosen). With a fetus having "more recognizable external features, and a more complete set of developing internal organs," would that be the point where human-ness is conferred? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_embryogenesis That is the entire debate. When does an embryo assume personhood. Until personhood is established, it can't be murder.

farglebargle -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 6:00:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Actually, I know quite a few doctors and have one in my family. I know that some doctors are more concerned with "harvesting" than "saving". You say that you know quite a few doctors, and that you know that some doctors are more concerned with harvesting. Given the proximity of these two claims, did you intend to imply that YOU KNOW DOCTORS WHO ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH HARVESTING THAN SAVING LIVES? If that's the case, than you shouldn't be reticent to NAME NAMES. WHO ARE THESE DOCTORS YOU KNOW WHO ARE ORGANLEGGERS???

MariaB -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 6:22:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir quote: Once past the age of viability, no, its not ok, and our laws prevent that from happening unless there are medical requirements to do so. That isn't true in the US. In DC, for example, you can choose to abort, for any reason, up until the child is born. It's a state-by-state decision how far into the pregnancy one can abort and for what reasons. Isn't it ironic that DC do not have the death penalty for murderers because they believe its too cruel and yet allow murder to continue on full term viable babies. So, when does an embryo or fetus become human life? Nobody can say for sure but people have different beliefs and beliefs are all they are. If some scientist has declared that a fully grown fetus is still just an internal parasite up until the moment of birth, that doesn't make it so. I'm not anti abortion but I am very anti PBA I can remember my babies, kicking and punching me long before they were born, they got hiccups, jumped at sudden external noises. They got to a stage where they relied on me for birth so that they could continue life but life inside me was very much already there. I strongly believe that abortions should remain legal as long as they are done in the first trimester or the first half of the second trimester under certain circumstances. Later abortions should be strictly limited to exceptional cases because once we start dealing with a possible viability issue we are dealing with a living human being. We must balance the rights of all and that includes the baby. I consider 'Partial Birth Abortions' on a viable baby to be murder. They induce the birth before pulling the baby out by the legs up to the point of the head. A sharp object is then inserted through the back of the babies neck and a vacuum then sucks out the babies brain. The child is removed as though it was no more than a troublesome wart.

SlipSlidingAway -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 6:31:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I haven't checked off the organ donor box on my license nor would I use organs harvested from someone else. Thanks but, just let me expire. I have an issue with medical science helping us die young as late in life as is possible. I swear I'm not a Jehovah's Witness but I just don't see the need to hang on to life so desperately that I would be willing to use the organs of some other poor person whose doctor probably didn't do everything they could to save them so that their organs could be harvested more quickly or easily. I want the doctor to do everything possible to save me with what they have to work with. I don't want them making their own version of Dr. Frankenstein's (That's pronounced: "Fronkenshteen") monster. Nope. I came into the world with certain body parts and I'll leave with whichever ones I manage to keep. Peace and comfort, Michael That is so unbelievably offensive. You must watch far too much fiction on t.v. Sorry you find it offensive. I remember mentioning to a cousin, who has been an ER nurse for nearly three decades, that I'd checked off the organ donor card on my license. She told me it was a bad idea and that I should 'lose' the license and get a new one. For someone that works in that environment on a daily basis to tell me that? I'm not thinking that Michael watches too much TV... My family knows that I am good with them donating my organs once I am gone, but that it's not a conversation we are having with the medical staff until the bitter end.

searching4mysir -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 6:36:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir quote: Once past the age of viability, no, its not ok, and our laws prevent that from happening unless there are medical requirements to do so. That isn't true in the US. In DC, for example, you can choose to abort, for any reason, up until the child is born. It's a state-by-state decision how far into the pregnancy one can abort and for what reasons. Isn't it ironic that DC do not have the death penalty for murderers because they believe its too cruel and yet allow murder to continue on full term viable babies. So, when does an embryo or fetus become human life? Nobody can say for sure but people have different beliefs and beliefs are all they are. If some scientist has declared that a fully grown fetus is still just an internal parasite up until the moment of birth, that doesn't make it so. I'm not anti abortion but I am very anti PBA I can remember my babies, kicking and punching me long before they were born, they got hiccups, jumped at sudden external noises. They got to a stage where they relied on me for birth so that they could continue life but life inside me was very much already there. I strongly believe that abortions should remain legal as long as they are done in the first trimester or the first half of the second trimester under certain circumstances. Later abortions should be strictly limited to exceptional cases because once we start dealing with a possible viability issue we are dealing with a living human being. We must balance the rights of all and that includes the baby. I consider 'Partial Birth Abortions' on a viable baby to be murder. They induce the birth before pulling the baby out by the legs up to the point of the head. A sharp object is then inserted through the back of the babies neck and a vacuum then sucks out the babies brain. The child is removed as though it was no more than a troublesome wart. They don't do that barbaric procedure any more. Now they inject the child with a drug to stop her heart before cutting her up and pulling her out and throwing her away. Yes, I'm using "her" intentionally because in the US there ARE sex-selective abortions. Little girls are being killed in the womb for the crime of being female.

searching4mysir -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 6:38:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I haven't checked off the organ donor box on my license nor would I use organs harvested from someone else. Thanks but, just let me expire. I have an issue with medical science helping us die young as late in life as is possible. I swear I'm not a Jehovah's Witness but I just don't see the need to hang on to life so desperately that I would be willing to use the organs of some other poor person whose doctor probably didn't do everything they could to save them so that their organs could be harvested more quickly or easily. I want the doctor to do everything possible to save me with what they have to work with. I don't want them making their own version of Dr. Frankenstein's (That's pronounced: "Fronkenshteen") monster. Nope. I came into the world with certain body parts and I'll leave with whichever ones I manage to keep. Peace and comfort, Michael That is so unbelievably offensive. You must watch far too much fiction on t.v. Sorry you find it offensive. I remember mentioning to a cousin, who has been an ER nurse for nearly three decades, that I'd checked off the organ donor card on my license. She told me it was a bad idea and that I should 'lose' the license and get a new one. For someone that works in that environment on a daily basis to tell me that? I'm not thinking that Michael watches too much TV... My family knows that I am good with them donating my organs once I am gone, but that it's not a conversation we are having with the medical staff until the bitter end. There is a hospital in TX that put a DNR on a 12 yr old child against the wishes of the family and were pushing to harvest his organs just in the past month. I highly doubt this is the only hospital that this is happening in.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 9:21:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir Now they inject the child with a drug to stop her heart before cutting her up and pulling her out and throwing her away. Yes, I'm using "her" intentionally because in the US there ARE sex-selective abortions. Little girls are being killed in the womb for the crime of being female. I can't find any evidence that there is any significant number of 'sex selection abortions' being performed in the US. All I could find was this. http://www.pensitoreview.com/2012/08/22/anderson-cooper-exposes-gop-operative-kellyanne-conways-lie-about-rise-in-sex-selection-abortions/ Where conways was shown to be a liar as she stirred up hysteria about the procedure. As for partial birth/sex selection abortions, can you show evidence of any actually occuring within the last several years or is this just more hysteria?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Your Right To Life Support.... (8/24/2012 9:32:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir There is a hospital in TX that put a DNR on a 12 yr old child against the wishes of the family and were pushing to harvest his organs just in the past month. I highly doubt this is the only hospital that this is happening in. I'm going to assume it's this one. http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/22/texas-hospital-dehydrating-12-year-old-boy-to-harvest-his-organs/ The article explains that what the hospital (withholding food and water) did was illegal and has been reversed. The author of the article appears to not very knowledgable about medicine or even basic biology as someone who dies from dehydration does so because of systemic organ failure. The organs would then be useless for transplantation. Ergo, they cannot be killing him via dehydration in order to harvest organs. The irony of it all is that the hospital is probably behaving in this manner (badly) because there is no insurance and they don't want a multi-million dollar charity case to fuck with their quarterly profits. Had universal insurance coverage been passed earlier, the problem wouldn't exist.

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