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Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/7/2012 7:48:04 PM

ARIES83

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Would anyone who knows a bit about it be able
to give me their thoughts on whether there could
be a proclivity for a Sadistic Narcissist to develop
D/s relationships.

I'm not in school and this isn't for anything besides
my own knowledge.

-ARIES

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/7/2012 7:51:04 PM

LadyHibiscus

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Oh, you've met my former slave, have you?

Anyone can find their way into a d/s relationship, whether it lasts, or is satisfactory to either party...

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/7/2012 7:54:47 PM

DaddySatyr

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To the best of my learning (which is out-dated, to be honest and humble), you're describing "malignant narcissism"?

If that is correct, it is a psychological disorder that borders on or partially includes some others that would not be conducive (IMO) to maintaining any kind of truly loving, caring relationship.

By definition, a narcissist loves themselves far too much to truly love anyone else. Can they develop some kind of relationship based strictly upon BDSM activities? I guess but, I wouldn't consider it any kind of relationship (in the "capital R" or "romantic" sense).

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/7/2012 8:04:39 PM

littlewonder

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Sure, why not? There seems to be all different kinds into d/s.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/7/2012 8:27:27 PM

ARIES83

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The reason why sadism is present in some cases of NPD and not in others is unclear, but the reasons for the sadistic behavior are more obvious. A person suffering from narcissistic personality disorder displays a persona of confidence, self-esteem - even self- adoration. They demand the time, attention and respect of others and when they do not get it, they will go to extraordinary lengths to obtain it. They will reward those who do their bidding and reject any who don't.
Manipulation is their middle name and they also have a voracious need for power. They obtain the latter by attempting to control others and are particularly good at looking out for suitable prey.

-some web article...

Hib... I was specificaly asking about proclivity
based on disorder.

DS, there are a heap of different types of
narcissism as I'm sure you know, I've come
across a few articles talking about
"sadistic narcissism" with some what different
discriptions from malignant as far as I can see,
Is it just a different term for the same thing?
or a obscure different narcissism?

-ARIES

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 9/7/2012 8:28:33 PM >

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/7/2012 8:32:12 PM

LadyHibiscus

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The only NPD person I knew well was my slave, who was a dominant sadist that discovered he also had a way to feed his endorphin addiction -- masochism.

He loved sadism for the control, I think, but being a masochist gave him that direct attention as well. It was all about him, and when one of us dominants actually behaved in a dominant fashion that thwarted or denied him? Not a happy moment.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/7/2012 8:34:01 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

The reason why sadism is present in some cases of NPD and not in others is unclear, but the reasons for the sadistic behavior are more obvious. A person suffering from narcissistic personality disorder displays a persona of confidence, self-esteem - even self- adoration. They demand the time, attention and respect of others and when they do not get it, they will go to extraordinary lengths to obtain it. They will reward those who do their bidding and reject any who don't.
Manipulation is their middle name and they also have a voracious need for power. They obtain the latter by attempting to control others and are particularly good at looking out for suitable prey.

-some web article...

Hib... I was specificaly asking about proclivity
based on disorder.

DS, there are a heap of different types of
narcissism as I'm sure you know, I've come
across a few articles talking about
"sadistic narcissism" with some what different
discriptions from malignant as far as I can see,
Is it just a different term for the same thing?
or a obscure different narcissism?

-ARIES

That soooo describes my daughter and yes, she was diagnosed with such about 4 years ago.

As for a narcissist being a sadist, yeah I think they can easily fit into d/s. I mean look at things written by the Marquis DeSade. The guy was absolutely narcissistic and a sadist and some say he was the turning point for bdsm. (No I don't believe that or that he was into bdsm in anyway)

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 5:04:11 AM

DesFIP

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I would think that by definition a narcissist is unable to have a relationship. Relationships are about two people and narcissists wouldn't cross the street to do anything for someone else. It's all about them.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 5:16:14 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
DS, there are a heap of different types of
narcissism as I'm sure you know, I've come
across a few articles talking about
"sadistic narcissism" with some what different
discriptions from malignant as far as I can see,
Is it just a different term for the same thing?
or a obscure different narcissism?

-ARIES

Well, psychological disorders are not diseases.

If you take two human beings that are generally healthy and they both get the flu, you can predict the course the disease will take in BOTH of them, fairly accurately.

On the other hand; we're all individual and psychological disorders, while bringing certain traits to the surface, will look a little different in just about all the people they affect.

There was a thread going on about one of the mass shooters and people were saying: "well, he's obviously mentally ill and that's why he killed all those people". Many people and I dare say; many mental health professionals would agree with that assessment.

I believe that some people who suffer from ... paranoia ... may turn to violence while an over-whelming majority of them do not. What's the difference? They're individuals. Whether it be nature or nurture, we're all different based upon our humanity and then, you add a disorder to the mix ...

For this reason (and to gain some personal "glory", I believe) there are always mental health professionals who are trying to re-shape the wheel. Of course, there are a few different disorders that share some of the same "symptoms" but, I tend to believe that NPD manifests itself in several different ways because of our individuality rather than to believe that there are as many unique disorders as some claim.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 9/8/2012 5:27:03 AM >

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 5:37:06 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
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You have a incorrect definition.
The majority do have relationships, and you
have to understand there are so many forms
of Narcarsissm that it would take me ages to
list them all.
And all are quite unique.

-ARIES

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 6:04:32 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
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DS,
The last question was just me trying to
figure out if "Malignant" and "Sadistic"
were two different behaviour patterns,
or the same pattern just called by
different names.

And I think a lot of people don't give
Narcissists enough credit, as far as I
know, most can care for people, they
just do it a bit differently.

-ARIES

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 7:04:05 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

DS,
The last question was just me trying to
figure out if "Malignant" and "Sadistic"
were two different behaviour patterns,
or the same pattern just called by
different names.

And I think a lot of people don't give
Narcissists enough credit, as far as I
know, most can care for people, they
just do it a bit differently.

-ARIES

Narcissism

quote:

NOUN:

1. Excessive love or admiration of oneself. See Synonyms at conceit.
2. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem.
3. Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self, especially as a fixation on or a regression to an infantile stage of development.
4. The attribute of the human psyche charactized by admiration of oneself but within normal limits.

I think 1 and 4 are in dichotic opposition to each other so, I'm a bit confused. The first uses "excessive" but 4 uses "normal".

However, 2 is the one where the rubber meets the road for this discussion; most importantly (in my mind) "self-preoccupation" and "lack of empathy". I guess that one could make an argument that these don't negate the ability to have a "Relationship" but, I wouldn't agree with that person.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to ARIES83)

Post #: 12

RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 7:15:41 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

Do me a favour,
Just read the Wikipedia
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism#section_4

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 7:19:59 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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I just did and while I do see differences in this (relatively) new distinction, I think it fits right in with one of my two previously postulated ideas:

A doctor, trying to make a name for himself or ...

individuals, reacting to or dealing with their conditions, differently.

That's just my take. Certainly, I'm no professional but I did study psychology for five years and it certainly was a career path that I wanted to follow, at one time. No longer.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to ARIES83)

Post #: 14

RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 7:35:31 AM

angelikaJ

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Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

To the best of my learning (which is out-dated, to be honest and humble), you're describing "malignant narcissism"?

If that is correct, it is a psychological disorder that borders on or partially includes some others that would not be conducive (IMO) to maintaining any kind of truly loving, caring relationship.

By definition, a narcissist loves themselves far too much to truly love anyone else. Can they develop some kind of relationship based strictly upon BDSM activities? I guess but, I wouldn't consider it any kind of relationship (in the "capital R" or "romantic" sense).

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Ironically, I don't think most narcissists ever see themselves as narcissists.
They don't understand that their 'damage' is that they are too self-involved to love anyone else or that their relational abilities are lacking.

edit: typo

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 9/8/2012 7:36:04 AM >

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 7:43:32 AM

kalikshama

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Joined: 8/8/2010
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Hmm, does anyone come to mind from this description?

quote:

Do me a favour,
Just read the Wikipedia
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism#section_4

Corporate narcissism

Organizational psychologist Alan Downs wrote a book in 1997 describing corporate narcissism.[33] He explores high-profile corporate leaders (such as Al Dunlap and Robert Allen) who, he suggests, literally have only one thing on their minds: profits. According to Downs, such narrow focus actually may yield positive short-term benefits, but ultimately it drags down individual employees as well as entire companies. Alternative thinking is proposed, and some firms now utilizing these options are examined. Downs' theories are relevant to those suggested by Victor Hill in his book, Corporate Narcissism in Accounting Firms Australia.[34]

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 7:44:44 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

Do me a favour,
Just read the Wikipedia
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism#section_4

The word "sadistic" does not appear on that page. Please link to the articles you were reading about that.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 8:01:07 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I just did and while I do see differences in this (relatively) new distinction, I think it fits right in with one of my two previously postulated ideas:

A doctor, trying to make a name for himself or ...

individuals, reacting to or dealing with their conditions, differently.

That's just my take. Certainly, I'm no professional but I did study psychology for five years and it certainly was a career path that I wanted to follow, at one time. No longer.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Distinctions, plural.
It dosen't matter if people categorise them
as different disorders, or as the same disorder
but different type of person.... Semantics.

Anyway... For anyone interested here is some
info so we're all on the same page.
The OP was about Sadistic Narcissism, but
there seems to be a lot of misunderstandings
and preconceptions.

unprincipled narcissist:
including antisocial features. A charlatan—is a
fraudulent, exploitative, deceptive and unscrupulous
individual.

amorous narcissist:
including histrionic features. The Don Juan or
Casanova of our times—is erotic, exhibitionist.

compensatory narcissist:
including negativistic (passive-aggressive),
avoidant features.

elitist narcissist:
variant of pure pattern. Corresponds to
Wilhelm Reich's "phallic narcissistic" personality
type.

fanatic type:
including paranoid features. An individual whose
self-esteem was severely arrested during
childhood, usually with major paranoid tendencies
who holds onto an illusion of omnipotence.
These people are fighting delusions of insignificance
and lost value and are trying to re-establish their
self-esteem through grandiose fantasies and
self-reinforcement. If unable to gain recognition or
support from others, they take on the role of a heroic
or worshipped person with a grandiose mission.

And on and on and on...

Aggressive narcissism

Codependency (inverted narcissism or co-narcissism)

Conversational narcissism

Destructive narcissism

Malignant narcissism

Phallic narcissism

Primordial narcissism

Sexual narcissism

Masterson's subtypes (exhibitionist and closet)

In 1993, James F. Masterson proposed two categories for pathological narcissism, exhibitionist and closet.[27] Both fail to adequately develop an age- and phase- appropriate self because of defects in the quality of psychological nurturing provided, usually by the mother. The exhibitionist narcissist is the one described in DSM-IV and differs from the closet narcissist in several important ways.

The closet narcissist is more likely to be described as having a deflated, inadequate self-perception and greater awareness of emptiness within. The exhibitionist narcissist would be described as having an inflated, grandiose self-perception with little or no conscious awareness of the emptiness within. Such a person would assume that this condition was normal and that others were just like them.

The closet narcissist seeks constant approval from others and appears similar to the borderline in the need to please others. The exhibitionist narcissist seeks perfect admiration all the time from others.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 8:04:11 AM

kalikshama

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Which of these designations have been accepted and made it into the DSM?

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 8:09:48 AM

ARIES83

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Hang on Kali I know it's not in the wiki
but I have to scoot for a bit, ill find the
articles when I come back.

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