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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 8:45:35 AM   
kalikshama


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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 9:04:14 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		I think I'm just going with DaddySatyr's idea,
that "sadistic narcissism" is probably referring
to malignant narcissism.

So this thread is a bit confusing now but for all
intents and purposes this is the OP question.
Is there maybe a proclivity for Malignant
Narcissists to form D/s relationships?
I suppose short of a psychologist to come
answer this, I'm asking if anyone knows a D/s
person that matches about 5 of the 9 traits
at the bottom of this post.

Kali,
The DSM as far as I know of how it works, only
uses NPD as a disorder, and all the things I am
talking about are more reffrence material and
models that are potential tools to tailor therapy
and the like.

Theres a lot that I find fascinating about this
type of Narcissism (malignant) but I don't want
to waffle on about it, heres an old DSM
definition for NPD.

DSM IV definition: Someone who suffers
from Narcissistic Personality disorder (NPD)
has at least 5 of the following characteristics:

-has a grandiose sense of self-importance
(e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents,
expects to be recognized as superior without
commensurate achievements)

-is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited
success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal
love

-believes that he or she is "special" and
unique and can only be understood by, or
should associate with, other special or
high-status people (or institutions)

-requires excessive admiration

-has a sense of entitlement, i.e.,
unreasonable expectations of especially
favourable treatment or automatic
compliance with his or her expectations

-is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes
advantage of others to achieve his or her
own ends

-lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or
identify with the feelings and needs of others

-is often envious of others or believes that
others are envious of him or her

-shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or
attitudes

Associated Features: Depressed Mood
Dramatic or Erratic or Antisocial Personality


< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 9/8/2012 9:06:30 AM >

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 9:18:09 AM   
crazyml


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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 9:27:16 AM   
WomanlyWiles


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Status: offline 		My mother doesn't have an official diagnosis, but I'm now a professional in a relevant field, and it's clear to me that she has NPD. She and my father have been married for 46 years now. He worships the ground she walks on. So yes, people with NPD can have long relationships. They're not healthy relationships and they are abusive to any children, but they can last. You just need someone to put up with it. My parents are in their early seventies, and very much of the 'you made your bed, now you have to lie on' generation. Divorce was unthinkable.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 11:35:36 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

DS,
The last question was just me trying to
figure out if "Malignant" and "Sadistic"
were two different behaviour patterns,
or the same pattern just called by
different names.

And I think a lot of people don't give
Narcissists enough credit, as far as I
know, most can care for people, they
just do it a bit differently.

-ARIES



Well, my daughter is a certified narcissist and while she is in a relationship, I think she's oblivious to her narcissism and it took me by surprise that she was able to even get in a relationship. She's not exactly always the caring, loveable type of person. It takes one hell of a man to put up with the stuff she does. It's her way or no way and she will make sure you know that right up front. It's always going to be about her and everyone else second.

So, does she care? Sometimes but after she gets what she wants first and if you disagree you can pretty much count her out of your life. She's not as bad as when she was a kid, but it's definitely still noticeable.

Do they do it differently as you said....sorta. She just puts herself ahead with no thought of fall out from her actions. She come first always according to her.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 11:40:09 AM   
SpaceSpank


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Status: offline 		There's degrees of Narcissism. One can be a narcissist and still be perfectly functional in all aspects of their life.

Others are so deep into their own narcissism that they can't really care for others at all, at best they might see it as a business arrangement where the other person betters their own life in some way.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 11:47:25 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WomanlyWiles

My mother doesn't have an official diagnosis, but I'm now a professional in a relevant field, and it's clear to me that she has NPD. She and my father have been married for 46 years now. He worships the ground she walks on. So yes, people with NPD can have long relationships. They're not healthy relationships and they are abusive to any children, but they can last. You just need someone to put up with it. My parents are in their early seventies, and very much of the 'you made your bed, now you have to lie on' generation. Divorce was unthinkable.


This and ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Well, my daughter is a certified narcissist and while she is in a relationship, I think she's oblivious to her narcissism and it took me by surprise that she was able to even get in a relationship. She's not exactly always the caring, loveable type of person. It takes one hell of a man to put up with the stuff she does. It's her way or no way and she will make sure you know that right up front. It's always going to be about her and everyone else second.

So, does she care? Sometimes but after she gets what she wants first and if you disagree you can pretty much count her out of your life. She's not as bad as when she was a kid, but it's definitely still noticeable.

Do they do it differently as you said....sorta. She just puts herself ahead with no thought of fall out from her actions. She come first always according to her.


this are pretty much, what I have been saying from my first post. I'm sure relationships are had but I doubt that they are truly loving, caring relationships. They're "dysfunctional", at best.

And thank you for sharing about your personal lives, ladies.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 12:05:16 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

-has a sense of entitlement, i.e.,
unreasonable expectations of especially
favourable treatment or automatic
compliance with his or her expectations

-is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes
advantage of others to achieve his or her
own ends


Well geeee wizzz, sounds like my ideal fantasy domme.
And your problem is?

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 4:11:21 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: WomanlyWiles

My mother doesn't have an official diagnosis, but I'm now a professional in a relevant field, and it's clear to me that she has NPD. She and my father have been married for 46 years now. He worships the ground she walks on. So yes, people with NPD can have long relationships. They're not healthy relationships and they are abusive to any children, but they can last. You just need someone to put up with it. My parents are in their early seventies, and very much of the 'you made your bed, now you have to lie on' generation. Divorce was unthinkable.


This and ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Well, my daughter is a certified narcissist and while she is in a relationship, I think she's oblivious to her narcissism and it took me by surprise that she was able to even get in a relationship. She's not exactly always the caring, loveable type of person. It takes one hell of a man to put up with the stuff she does. It's her way or no way and she will make sure you know that right up front. It's always going to be about her and everyone else second.

So, does she care? Sometimes but after she gets what she wants first and if you disagree you can pretty much count her out of your life. She's not as bad as when she was a kid, but it's definitely still noticeable.

Do they do it differently as you said....sorta. She just puts herself ahead with no thought of fall out from her actions. She come first always according to her.


this are pretty much, what I have been saying from my first post. I'm sure relationships are had but I doubt that they are truly loving, caring relationships. They're "dysfunctional", at best.

And thank you for sharing about your personal lives, ladies.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


Ok, I just wanted to clarify it because there
seemed to be a common type of conception
about Narcissism that was a bit over simplistic
and was bordering, lumping them in all in the
same boat as the most extreme forms/cases.

I've got another question for you DS, if you
not over the topic already.
This is a excerpt from a wiki article about a
book dealing with a certain aspect of
Psychopaths.
One thing I'm interested in with malignant-NPD
is, the ability to "Internalise" which has a huge
effect on their basic NPD and I think makes this
type very tricky as it basicly allows them to
compensate (maybe sub-consciously) for their
basic NPD traits and creates (as far as I can see)
a very similar kind of situation a the article below,
it's especially interesting to me if it's something
they are un-aware of.
Would you be able to share any thoughts you had
on,
-the mask effects described in the excerpt...
-the possible manifestation of the internalisation
process in Malignant-NPD.
-and if its not asking to much, some thoughts on
anything you see in common in either manifestation
and it's practical effects.
Thanks in advance

Exerpt:
Cleckley describes the psychopathic person as outwardly a perfect mimic of a normally functioning person, able to mask or disguise the fundamental lack of internal personality structure, an internal chaos that results in repeatedly purposeful destructive behavior, often more self-destructive than destructive to others. Despite the seemingly sincere, intelligent, even charming external presentation, internally the psychopathic person does not have the ability to experience genuine emotions. Cleckley questions whether this mask of sanity is voluntarily assumed intentionally to hide the lack of internal structure, or if the mask hides a serious, but yet unidentified, psychiatric defect.

-Wiki



< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 9/8/2012 4:13:04 PM >

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 4:12:22 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		People like that from relationships all the time. All kinds of people with all manner of personality issues form relationships. As to why people tolerate them...never underestimate the power of loneliness.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 4:41:21 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

As to why people tolerate them...never underestimate the power of loneliness.


Isn't that rather unfair to say of those people who're into above fantasy Dom/me? lol

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 10:23:04 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I doubt most form what we would consider a D/s relationship, and expect most form relationships with an uneven balance of power, to say nothing of the difference in terms of what one puts in vs what one gets in return. If you want to learn about narcissism, I suspect finding one will teach you more than reading about it, particularly since it doesn't appear to be on solid ground yet. Most of what is considered a symptom is variant normal behavior, meaning there is a quantitative difference in the identified symptoms and a qualitative difference in the resuts, both of which will be more evident when observing it and might be difficult to articulate in a manner that gives you a better idea of how it works.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/8/2012 10:56:05 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		To the OP:

You sound very interested in hearing about the pathology of narcissists and sadistic ones to boot.

You want to know what it's like? Be with one for many years.

Then you will not care about the pathology; you will only care how much you got hurt by them.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/9/2012 1:53:52 AM   
WomanlyWiles


Posts: 166
Joined: 3/14/2012
Status: offline 		I was with a psychopath fr many years. he was very plausible and charming, but deliberately targeted me at a time when I was extremely vulnerable. It anyone has that as a fantasy, I'd advise them to keep it as a fantasy.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/9/2012 2:01:40 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Oh fuck.... Have you looked in the P&R section lately?




rofl.. hell.. its all over most of the threads on collarme. Dont have to go to that ole nasty basement to look, crazy.


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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/9/2012 5:09:54 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		Oh oh oh, waves hand in the air. My ex master owned pretty much that entire definition. If not for the D/S lifestyle, and the term Dom to cloak under, I dont think he could even fake normalcy in a vanilla world. I think his pic is in a pathology book somewhere....lol. He is just that DIFFERENT. Does he have relationships? If you want to call it that, but it is very one sided and very unsatisfying for the other party/parties. Manipulation, self adoration and complete adoration of him also needed from the partner, its a give all you get nothing type thing. YOu never and I mean NEVER get a reward or satisfaction. They truly believe only they deserve benefits. These type of people you better be hard as nails if you even dare to get involved. I would avoid such a relationship at all costs, the pain they cause you is extreme and they feel nothing. Very unhealthy.

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/9/2012 11:24:26 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

I doubt most form what we would consider a D/s relationship, and expect most form relationships with an uneven balance of power, to say nothing of the difference in terms of what one puts in vs what one gets in return. If you want to learn about narcissism, I suspect finding one will teach you more than reading about it, particularly since it doesn't appear to be on solid ground yet. Most of what is considered a symptom is variant normal behavior, meaning there is a quantitative difference in the identified symptoms and a qualitative difference in the resuts, both of which will be more evident when observing it and might be difficult to articulate in a manner that gives you a better idea of how it works.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



I may have a case to observe.
Which is why I am interested.

-Aries





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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/10/2012 1:22:05 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
Would anyone who knows a bit about it be able
to give me their thoughts on whether there could
be a proclivity for a Sadistic Narcissist to develop
D/s relationships.


I don't know anything about it, but I would guess that Sadistic Narcissists are more likely to develop D/s relationships.

ETA: The wikipedia link you provided doesn't define sadistic narcissism. However, there does appear to be a link between malignant narcissism and serial killers.

"Malignant narcissism is highlighted as a key area in the study of mass murder, sexual, and serial murder." (From the wikipedia on "malignant narcissicm".)

Pam


< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 9/10/2012 1:35:31 PM >

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/10/2012 1:56:47 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

I think I'm just going with DaddySatyr's idea,
that "sadistic narcissism" is probably referring
to malignant narcissism.



Thank's pam, for the serial killer heads up.

-Aries

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RE: Sadistic-Narcissism - 9/10/2012 1:59:58 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		Yes, I missed that quote earlier in the thread.

Pam

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