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Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 2:36:58 PM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		So I wasnt sure if I wanted to post this in P&R or here - but I chose here, cause P&R gives me a headache.

I am throwing out a hypothetical set-up to see what women would do if this ever came into Federal law.

As we all know, if the R's are elected into office, Mitt & Ryan would press to have all abortion made illegal in the United States, including cases where the woman was raped.

So - if this ever came to be, and you (a woman) were raped by a stranger, became pregnant, what would you do?

- would you feel blessed because "God" gave you the chance to give life?
- would you cherish your baby?
- would you be set up to bring a child into the world?
- would you have the money to bring a child into the world?
- would you pay to have the child and give it up for adoption?
- would you go on welfare to have the child and give it up for adoption?
- would you leave the country to have an abortion elsewhere?
- would you try to hurt yourself or the baby so it dies?
- would you kill yourself?

Men - if this happened to your mother, sister, girlfriend, wife - how would you feel about the child?

General question - what if the child came out retarded? missing limbs? cerebral palsy - etc. and you dont know the genetics of the father - so you dont know what happened, the raped mother may of been so stressed out, that it actually harmed the fetus - what then? Who takes care of it? Who wants to take care of it?

Just some thoughts that have come to mind listening to the GOP going on about how all life is precious.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 2:42:13 PM   
BurntKitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

<snip>
General question - what if the child came out retarded?


You mean if it resembled or acted like Mittens or Ryan?

(Yes, I went there.)

I'd insist the GOP support the unwanted spawn until it graduated from Yale or some other high falutin' university.


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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 2:53:52 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Life is precious, but there is quality of life
aswell, would you want your child to grow up
without a father, or not having a situation
where you can feed it, look after it properly,
do you think you could raise the child of the
man who you probably hate most in the world.

All those things are possible to deal with but it's
the individual person who has to deal with them,
I think it's easy to say a person has to live with
something when on the outside, but it Is them
that has to live with it.
So I think it's they're choice.

I personally would want whatever my sisters,
partner wanted. I'd support whatever they chose.
For my child tho... I would be gutted if a partner
decided to abort it and I would dump her ass on
the spot.
(if it was my biologic child)
Because I know I could and would be able
to give it a great life.

-Aries

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 9/11/2012 2:55:01 PM >

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 2:56:40 PM   
Titaniya


Posts: 85
Joined: 9/9/2012
Status: offline 		would you feel blessed because "God" gave you the chance to give life?
- No. Partially because I'm agnostic, partially because I'm nearly phobic about pregnancy, and largely because I'm certain I'd have a chance to "give life" if I chose to without having to be raped for it.

would you cherish your baby?
- I doubt it, but it's hard to say. As of now, my only maternal instincts are directed at my cat, but who knows what power pregnancy hormones would have over me?

would you be set up to bring a child into the world?
would you have the money to bring a child into the world?
- I could probably emotionally handle it after some work, and I have enough people around me that I'd probably manage financial, but it would be incredibly difficult/stressful and might necessitate giving up on a lot of my long-term goals, which would lead to a major drop in self esteem on top of other emotional healing that would need to happen.

would you pay to have the child and give it up for adoption? would you go on welfare to have the child and give it up for adoption?
- If abortion wasn't an option (and I'd likely look into illegal avenues if need be), I would probably put it up for adoption, yes.

would you leave the country to have an abortion elsewhere?
- If necessary, absolutely.

would you try to hurt yourself or the baby so it dies?
- Possibly. It depends on how the aforementioned emotional healing/self esteem issues affect me.

would you kill yourself?
- No.

My stance on the entire thing is as follows: My right to feel comfortable in my body is more important than a non-sentient cell mass's right to take over my body in order to live. I don't think life starts at conception, and the embryo/fetus has no sense of self.

But hey, don't worry - if I get raped, my body will know I'm being raped and shut down to prevent pregnancy, despite what biologists would have you believe. ;)

Edited for grammar.

< Message edited by Titaniya -- 9/11/2012 2:58:43 PM >

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 3:14:44 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		At this time of my life, my getting pregnant is moot. My tubes were tied almost 30 years ago, and I am well past menopause.

I can say I am pro choice and pro birth control by whatever means a female chooses, and always have been. B/c it will be the female who will most likely be the primary care giver and may very likely be the primary support for the child. If there is a interested father in the picture, of course he should have a say in the matter. But that's common sense human relations.

You know, one thing the "every life is precious" people won't admit to is that though they are willing to do everything in their power to bring rose vs wade down, they have no intention of supporting legislation for the needed social services all those "precious lives" will need.

Since this is a topic near and dear to my heart, I hope you do not mind Janah if I pretend to be 22 again, and answer your questions from that perspective.

So - if this ever came to be, and you (a woman) were raped by a stranger, became pregnant, what would you do?

- would you feel blessed because "God" gave you the chance to give life?

Not at all I would feel cursed.

- would you cherish your baby?

No.

- would you be set up to bring a child into the world?

No.

- would you have the money to bring a child into the world?

No.

- would you pay to have the child and give it up for adoption?

I would have had to quit school. I went to school full time and worked 3 jobs.

- would you go on welfare to have the child and give it up for adoption?

yes

- would you leave the country to have an abortion elsewhere?

If I could, I would.

- would you try to hurt yourself or the baby so it dies?

That is a tough one. I would not do this now. Back then, I might have.

- would you kill yourself?

I can't answer.



General question - what if the child came out retarded? missing limbs? cerebral palsy - etc. and you dont know the genetics of the father - so you dont know what happened, the raped mother may of been so stressed out, that it actually harmed the fetus - what then? Who takes care of it? Who wants to take care of it?

I would give the baby up for adoption, I would not be able to keep it. Having to be pregnant with my rapist's child would fuck my head up major, I can tell you that. I can't imagine it would be good for the fetus. Studies have shown the mother's emotional state does have a bearing on the unborn child.





< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 9/11/2012 3:16:03 PM >

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 3:19:30 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX
Just some thoughts that have come to mind listening to the GOP going on about how all life is precious.


The GOP's view on most issues these days is so stupidly right wing that it has the effect of destroying reason before it can even get into first gear. Still, I'll have a go:

If one of my sisters or female friends were to get pregnant as a result of a rape and wanted to abort the foetus, I'd support her. Likewise if she wanted to give birth to it. If there were an equivalent of the GOP in government here, having enacted the sorts of laws you imply, I would demand that it take the newborn child if my sister/female friend didn't want to keep it.

If that last weren't to be possible . . . well, put it this way: I'd imagine seeing a sudden return of the 'foundling' phenomenon of which we saw a great deal here in the UK up till the end of the nineteenth century (and perhaps beyond).

Now, here's an interesting question: what would a staunch GOP supporter do if she or he were to find a newborn baby on his or her doorstep? All life is precious; it's down to individual responsibility (whatever happened to that, whine, moan) and individuals shouldn't rely on 'big government' to provide (expensive) state solutions to such problems, etc, etc . . . .

All GOP moral precepts and their supporters' overall political worldview can lead to only one conclusion: A GOP supporter faced with a baby on his or her doorstep must take in the baby and bring it up to adulthood.

How big is the doorstep of the White House and how many newborn babies would fit on it? A question for the statisticians.



< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 9/11/2012 3:22:45 PM >

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 3:24:18 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		I think there's still time for you to edit your OP and make it into a poll.

Here's my pick:

- would you leave the country to have an abortion elsewhere?

Although I'm sure I wouldn't actually have to leave the country.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 3:28:46 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
Although I'm sure I wouldn't actually have to leave the country.


Of course you wouldn't have to leave the country. If there's a market for back street abortions, then there will be people who'll offer the service. That's how the free market works. And the GOP loves a muscular free market, as we all know.


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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 3:39:44 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		The GOP is not pro LIFE, they are pro BIRTH.

Damn, a menopause baby? From a rape? I would terminate it. If I were a young adult, I would keep it. I have a lot of family backup. I've never wanted kids, but there's no way I could do a closed adoption. You'd have to kock me out when my water broke and wake me up after my milk dried.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 3:42:16 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

So - if this ever came to be, and you (a woman) were raped by a stranger, became pregnant, what would you do?

- would you feel blessed because "God" gave you the chance to give life?
- would you cherish your baby?
- would you be set up to bring a child into the world?
- would you have the money to bring a child into the world?
- would you pay to have the child and give it up for adoption?
- would you go on welfare to have the child and give it up for adoption?
- would you leave the country to have an abortion elsewhere?
- would you try to hurt yourself or the baby so it dies?
- would you kill yourself?



I would accept that fact that I was a mother, and if not in a financial position to raise the child myself I would give it up for adoption. I know too many women who have had abortions and regret them as well as several women whose children are the product of rape. The violence of killing my child (and it is my child too) doesn't erase the violence of the rape.

I don't think children should be executed for the crimes of their parents.



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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 3:54:23 PM   
kitkat105


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline 		I feel pretty strongly about this issue, mainly because I don't like being told what I should think, feel or do with my body by men who do possess ovaries, a uterus and in a traditional sense are not the initial or main caregiver to a child.

So - if this ever came to be, and you (a woman) were raped by a stranger, became pregnant, what would you do?
Abort.

- would you feel blessed because "God" gave you the chance to give life?
God doesn't play a role in this, in my opinion.

- would you cherish your baby? N/A
- would you be set up to bring a child into the world? Emotionally, no. Physically, maybe.
- would you have the money to bring a child into the world? Maybe.
- would you pay to have the child and give it up for adoption? N/A
- would you go on welfare to have the child and give it up for adoption? No.
- would you leave the country to have an abortion elsewhere? If it was made illegal here, yes. I'd go back to Australia.
- would you try to hurt yourself or the baby so it dies? No.
- would you kill yourself? No.

General question - what if the child came out retarded? missing limbs? cerebral palsy - etc. and you dont know the genetics of the father - so you dont know what happened, the raped mother may of been so stressed out, that it actually harmed the fetus - what then? Who takes care of it? Who wants to take care of it? Exactly. My beliefs are very similar to what they believe in Judaism - if there are health concerns for the mother or embryo/foetus, abortion is okay. Add in to the fact that Mitt & Ryan want to also make sure that people with preexisting medical conditions are not covered, a potentially disabled child would be a huge financial and emotional burden.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 4:05:38 PM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for your answers so far -

This actually DID happen to me, and I did abort. I have never regretted it a day in my life. Not for ONE SECOND.
I am not set up to be a mother. I dont have a maternal bone in my body - so the thought of having my rapists child was about the most repulsive thought that could of been forced on me.

My husband at the time sure as hell didnt want it - nor did he want to pay the ten grand to bring it into the world. We had enough to deal with with the lawyers and the court case to bring this POS to justice. It was hell enough to deal with the rape, the aftermath, and to recover from the absolute hell it caused in my life. To think of having to deal with a pregnancy and knowing that the rapists genes were in my body - is a fucking joke.

It took me years not to want to kill every man I came across after that - and to think that the GOP would FORCE a woman like me to have a child from rape, makes me think that those people are absolutely insane. PERIOD.

< Message edited by JanahX -- 9/11/2012 4:06:45 PM >

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 4:07:23 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline 		Dear country, when you are faced with a woman pregnant from rape, what do you see?

- would you welcome and support her like you would the pregnant wife of the newly weds next door?
- would you welcome and cherish her child like you would the child of the nice couple across the road?
- would you make sure the mother-to-be is set up financially to bring her child into the world?
- would you help the mother-to-be raise that child or pay for her to have the child and give it up for adoption?
- would you pity her and her child?
- would you protect them against her rapist/the child's father indefinitely and indiscriminately?
- would you supply the massive medical, psychological and financial support that is required for the woman to have, love and raise her child?
- would you help her start a new life with her baby?
- if her baby were sick or malformed, would you help her to the full extent a loving normal family would have helped her and the child?

Come the day when you can answer positively to these questions, create a safe and equal environment for rape victims to have these babies and enjoy them as blessed new life and not a consequence of the crime committed against them, then we can talk about abolishing abortions for rape. But while you're still allowing rapists to claim custody and support off their victims, you have no right to force any woman to give up the choice of abortion.

Thank you.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 4:07:55 PM   
Duskypearls


Posts: 3561
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Status: offline 		Seeing as how mental/emotional/chemical/hormonal experiences/behaviors (among other things) are inheritable, such as that of a violent, possibly conscienceless rapist, and that of a scared/horrified out of her wits rape victim, I personally would not want to risk being responsible for sending out such possibly damaged DNA into the future. We are already devolving quickly enough as it is, as far as I'm concerned. How do we know the future ramifications of such events upon a fetus/child/adolescent as they grow and mature, and society at large?

Another consideration is how well a mother will want, or be able, to bond with the product of a violence commited against her entire present and future being? How will that damage the child in the short and long run? She may not have had a choice about being raped, but about the outcome, she does have.

Unless I became overwhelmed with a deep knowing, and completely convinced, that the child should be born, I would, without second thoughts or regret, self-abort using abortifacient herbs. Some things are simply better off not being.

< Message edited by Duskypearls -- 9/11/2012 4:13:31 PM >

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 4:21:07 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
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From: West Virginia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

If one of my sisters or female friends were to get pregnant as a result of a rape and wanted to abort the foetus, I'd support her. Likewise if she wanted to give birth to it. If there were an equivalent of the GOP in government here, having enacted the sorts of laws you imply, I would demand that it take the newborn child if my sister/female friend didn't want to keep it.

If that last weren't to be possible . . . well, put it this way: I'd imagine seeing a sudden return of the 'foundling' phenomenon of which we saw a great deal here in the UK up till the end of the nineteenth century (and perhaps beyond).



Peon, we have a huge shortage of caucasian babies that are available in this country for adoption. I've known couples, including one of my own relatives, who had to wait for over half a dozen years or more. Color me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if what is at the bottom of most of this anti-choice stuff is really...lots of people with money who want to end the caucasian baby shortage, adoption wise. Rapists already get a mere wrist slap, if even that, so I wouldn't be surprised if our laws changed to disallow abortions and...they let all the fertile caucasian rapists out of jail so they could get on with the babymaking.

Yeah, I'm in a sour mood so I'll just shut up now.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 4:52:33 PM   
Endivius


Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline 		But but but, I thought during rape a woman's' vagina exerted teeth to bite her attacker. That guy on the news said so


Even if Mitt get's elected, they will never over turn Roe vs Wade. Supreme Court > President.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 5:01:29 PM   
yourdarkdesire


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Status: offline 		I have always strongly felt that it should be the woman's right to choose. But what would we do under the circumstances? Regardless of our we espouse this view or that view, I don't think any of us are in a position to make that decision, until in that position.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 5:23:54 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire
I don't think any of us are in a position to make that decision, until in that position.


Tut. It isn't your decision to make. It's the Pope's, Mittens', the father's and the GOP's, in that order. All these people jointly own your womb, YDD, and they have the last word, not you. You are merely the caretaker of your womb. You know this because you're not fat, rich and male enough to own your own womb. (It probably says all this bollocks in the Bible somewhere and if it doesn't, it should do.)

Seriously, I think a woman would need to develop a *ferocious* sense of anarchist sensibility in America, today, and given such circumstances as being impregnated by a rapist. She'd need to hoover a ton of horseshit out of her head in order to see what she feels -*she* feels - rather than what a bunch of pointless arses in Washington and Rome feel.

God am I glad that I didn't make the mistake of getting born a woman. Most especially I'm glad that I didn't get born an American woman.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 5:44:50 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		I would stand unflinchingly behind whatever anyone I knew in that position decided.

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RE: Rape-babies - 9/11/2012 6:04:51 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Even if Mitt get's elected, they will never over turn Roe vs Wade. Supreme Court > President.


Future of an Aging Court Raises Stakes of Presidential Vote

...“Next year I will turn 80, God willing,” Justice Ginsburg said. “ ‘I’m not all that old,’ I told my youngest colleague.”

Justice Ginsburg is the eldest member of a court that includes four justices in their 70s, making it among the oldest courts since the New Deal era. Its decisions during this historic “flood season,” as Justice Ginsburg described the end-of-term rush, are likely to make the panel — and the tenure of some of the justices — a significant issue in the presidential campaign.

...Randall L. Kennedy, a liberal Harvard Law professor, argued last year that Justices Ginsburg and Breyer should quit so Mr. Obama could name younger like-minded replacements. Professor Kennedy presented his argument in an article published in The New Republic under the headline “The Case for Early Retirement.”

“Both are unlikely to be able to outlast a two-term Republican presidential administration,” Professor Kennedy wrote, adding, “What’s more, both are, well, old.”

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