RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Class Americans

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RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 5:01:50 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

NAFTA had everything to do with it.

Once manufacturers not only discovered they could, but in fact had new federal legislation allowing them to move production elsewhere (via NAFTA), they began looking for other manufacturing facilities globally.

New markets suddenly opened up who were willing to produce for vastly less, indeed, foreign governments were then freed up to contact directly, GM, GE and others....and NAFTA became an afterthought, only a legislative "bridge" to lower costs worldwide.

Honey....I'm an economist...I do this stuff in my sleep....pick another fight...trust me.

Ah.. now we are getting to the crux of the issue. Because NAFTA was in effect for the North Americas, businesses used that to expand their businesses into cheaper lands that had nothing to do with North American.

So, it was businesses who did it.. not Clinton. Thank you for confirming that fact.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 61

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 5:19:51 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

This one's a piece of cake actually. the real beartrap of taxes go into effect in january of 2013. It'll be a blast.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/taxmageddon_in_KeiGQ2lz9pDtsBQfSoCxpJ

The horror, tax rates would return to the levels we enjoyed during the 1990's when the economy expanded and so did the number of jobs and the average salary.

What ever will we do?

well, a LOT of the jobs that existed in the 90's are now in China, India, etc., etc. and won't likely return. And every day, the jobs that are still here are being replaced with automation. Robotics that don't ask for vacation, sick days, raises, healthcare and pensions. Dreaming about the "ole days" is nice, but not relavent in todays economy.

Actually manufacturing jobs have been increasing at a rate not seen in decades.

(in reply to papassion)

Post #: 62

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 6:51:41 PM

subspaceseven

Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline

How very very true, why in Illinois the Chrysler Plant which had 240 employees while Bush was in charge, today has over 4000 people working there in part because of the bailout. Meanwhile Ryan tries to blame a GM plant closing on Obama when it closed under Bush...ahhh facts..the GOP and their supporters hate them

Hmmmm...lets see..corporate profits way up under Obama, jobs way up under Obama.....Compared to the last GOP President we are doing much better....

< Message edited by subspaceseven -- 9/20/2012 6:53:09 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 63

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 6:52:43 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

The plant that closed and offered people transfers to other plants.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to subspaceseven)

Post #: 64

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 6:55:54 PM

subspaceseven

Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
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They where offered transfer because of the Union contract, though GM did not have to give them one penny in moving expenses and if they turned down the job offer they lost all unemployment claims, insurance and pension..been in the UAW for 30 thirty years...

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 65

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 7:18:57 PM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

How very very true, why in Illinois the Chrysler Plant which had 240 employees while Bush was in charge, today has over 4000 people working there in part because of the bailout. Meanwhile Ryan tries to blame a GM plant closing on Obama when it closed under Bush...ahhh facts..the GOP and their supporters hate them

Hmmmm...lets see..corporate profits way up under Obama, jobs way up under Obama.....Compared to the last GOP President we are doing much better....

Wait...wait...maybe it is because Chrysler is actually selling cars nowadays when back then the were not. Yes, I believe Chrysler sales are at record levels not because of the "bailout" but because of good design and engineering and people love their trucks for once. The truck sales are off the charts for the first time in history.

Wait...wait...that plant actually did close under Obama. Obama promised the plant would not be closed during his run for president in 08 and it closed anyway, kinda like he promised to close Getmo and promised to cut the budget overrun by half (he doubled it instead) and promised to lower unemployment below 8 percent or and he did not and promised to be a one term president if unemployment did not drop below 8 percent consistantly and we know how that promise went.

Wait ...wait...corporate profits are way up as a percentage of expenditures. Expenditures are down because employment is still down with the employees being the larger of all expenditures made by a corporation.

Wait...wait...we are doing better?

P.S. You write for MSNBC right?

< Message edited by Arturas -- 9/20/2012 7:20:59 PM >

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Post #: 66

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 7:28:03 PM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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Yay!

Chrysler is making money for an Italian company... Fix It Again Tony!

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(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 67

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 7:32:41 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

They where offered transfer because of the Union contract, though GM did not have to give them one penny in moving expenses and if they turned down the job offer they lost all unemployment claims, insurance and pension..been in the UAW for 30 thirty years...

They were offered transfers or early retirement.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to subspaceseven)

Post #: 68

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 8:26:42 PM

subspaceseven

Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline

quote:

Wait...wait...that plant actually did close under Obama. Obama promised the plant would not be closed during his run for president in 08 and it closed anyway, kinda like he promised to close Getmo and promised to cut the budget overrun by half (he doubled it instead) and promised to lower unemployment below 8 percent or and he did not and promised to be a one term president if unemployment did not drop below 8 percent consistantly and we know how that promise went.

No it did not, turn off Fox, This has been debunked many times, it closed in DEC, that is when production stopped

I take it you work for Fox cause you got there talking points all in one paragraph

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 69

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 8:32:03 PM

subspaceseven

Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline

those who could not retire could move to the new job, those that could retire had the choice.

Ahhh but ryan...and walker, they turned down money for high speed rail which would have had the GM plant open under new ownership and kept another plant in Wisconsin open..

Why do you think Ryan just dumped 2 million into saving his house seat in the last 10 days?????? Does he think he will not be VP?? He is on the ballot but was not spending any money, till last week, gee what changed

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 70

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 8:33:16 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

What makes you think Romney won't replace Obamacare with a better, more streamlined healthcare system?

Reality?

(in reply to papassion)

Post #: 71

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 8:34:22 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Class Americans

Yeah but "middle class" is people making $250,000/year -- Romney 'splained it to me.

Interesting....I'm pretty sure that's the very same number Obama used as "middle class", "not going to get a tax increase" because of....(etc.).

Then I'm pretty sure you're nuts.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 72

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 8:37:46 PM

subspaceseven

Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline

At least they paid back all the money from the auto bailout, and kept Americans working... Or would you rather have them all unemployed???

Perhaps we should get rid of Honda in KY, Toyota in the south, and all the other foreign owned companies here. God Knows how the Japanese gov. saved Toyota to get a foothold here in the USA, seems like you should not bitch about the USA Gov doing it to save American jobs

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 73

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 9:00:19 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

How very very true, why in Illinois the Chrysler Plant which had 240 employees while Bush was in charge, today has over 4000 people working there in part because of the bailout. Meanwhile Ryan tries to blame a GM plant closing on Obama when it closed under Bush...ahhh facts..the GOP and their supporters hate them

Hmmmm...lets see..corporate profits way up under Obama, jobs way up under Obama.....Compared to the last GOP President we are doing much better....

Wait...wait...maybe it is because Chrysler is actually selling cars nowadays when back then the were not. Yes, I believe Chrysler sales are at record levels not because of the "bailout" but because of good design and engineering and people love their trucks for once. The truck sales are off the charts for the first time in history.

Chrysler would no longer exist to be selling anything without the bailout. GM and Chrysler were not headed to reorganization bankruptcy, there were no credit sources available to refi their debt, but to liquidation bankruptcy.

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 74

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 9:07:14 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Ahhh but ryan...and walker, they turned down money for high speed rail which would have had the GM plant open under new ownership and kept another plant in Wisconsin open..

Now that is something I didnt know.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to subspaceseven)

Post #: 75

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/20/2012 9:22:21 PM

subspaceseven

Posts: 467
Joined: 3/2/2012
Status: offline

True that....There was a plant outside Milw that moved once walker and Ryan said No to the High speed rail funding made available in the first 2 years of Obama's term, and another which stopped trying to purchase the old GM plant for high speed rail during the same time.

When Bush was president, 240 people worked at the Chrysler plant in Belvidere,(less than 70 miles away) with the bailout out money there are over 3500 working 3 shifts today, all hired in the last 20 months, Janeseville closed under Bush, Dec 2008, before Obama was sworn in, but for some reason they keep blaming Obama,

why do you think Ryan has just dumped a lot of cash into keeping his seat in the house, because with the national headines poeple see him for what he is, his wife was/is a corporate lobbyist for over 10 year for natural gas comapnies, his father in law owns ruling stock in 4 natural gas companies who have profited by getting rid of fraking law relugations in Wisconsin, all started by ryan...
the list goes on

< Message edited by subspaceseven -- 9/20/2012 9:23:29 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 76

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/21/2012 2:42:38 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Ahhh but ryan...and walker, they turned down money for high speed rail which would have had the GM plant open under new ownership and kept another plant in Wisconsin open..

Now that is something I didnt know.

The Obama stimulus law included money for a Milwaukee to Madison high speed rail demonstration project with plans to eventually expand the line to be Chicago->Milwaukee->Madison->Mineapolis. The very first thing Walker did as Governor was cancel the project claiming it was too expensive for the state (the entire thing was 100% federally subsidized for at least a dacade).

A foreign company that builds high speed rail cars had bought a factory in Milwaukee and was gearing up for production. They closed shop and bough a facility in Illinois instead.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 77

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/21/2012 5:21:16 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

What makes you think Romney won't replace Obamacare with a better, more streamlined healthcare system? Didn't Romney's state have a healthcare delivery system BEFORE Obama's 10,000 page fuckup? And whats with the worry about penalties for not having healthcare? Didn't Obama crow about and PROMISE the insurers cannot refuse you for "preexisting" conditions? So if you have, or do not have, insurance, they must insure you when you need it and apply. Ain't america great!

So it is simply a matter of whose name is on the reform act? If you want Romney's name on it and call it RomneyCare...feel free. Yes, it is the same as the reform he put in Mass. As long as it gets done I don't care whose name is on it.

(in reply to papassion)

Post #: 78

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/21/2012 5:24:49 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I know quite a few people that do not have health insurance and say they cannot afford it........but they could.

If they gave up stuff like

Owning half a dozen or more horses
" " dogs
" " cats
" " kids

Going on vacations every year
Thinking they need a new car every couple of years
Owning and racing cars
" " motorcycles
Competing in Demolition Derbys
Eating out 3-10 times a week
Buying coffee at the coffee place rather than brew it at home
Buying crap magazines(People, Equirer, etc) by the armloads
Buying crap to put into their bodies that only cause them to become more unhealthy (soda, cigarettes, junk food)
Buying fancy cell phones, big screen televisions, etc.

And the list goes on and on.

The above list are things that I have seen, with my own eyes, from people I know personally. People that say they cannot afford to pay for health insurance. People that go running to the ER when they get sick and blow off paying anything for the services they've gotten. People that dive for the paperwork to get Title 19, or whatever it is, to help pay the bill......then welch on whatever is left. People that would sooner file bankruptcy than try to pay off a few thousand dollar (or more) medical bill.

Hell, I know someone that bought a $30,000.00 motorcycle, then totalled it a month or so after it was purchased. He had no health insurance and had a $65,000.00 medical bill (last I heard......still not finished) Guess how much he will end up paying........ZERO!!!!!!!! Because he still qualifies for government aid.

Yay for the current system!!! Booo for a system that forces people to take some personal responsibility. Ya.......cuz yanno, we just gotta hate on those people that don't pay taxes. Well, the person with the $65,000.00 and counting medical bill does pay taxes. But I seriously doubt the taxes he pays will hit the $65,000.00 mark anytime soon.

In a lot of ways I get the old school Repub ideals......unfortunately they've gone so far off the rails there isn't a one of them left I would vote for. They have fucked themselves by refusing to be realistic.

Not sure where you live but here you can't do anything of the sort. The Hospital comes after you for each and every dime up to and including garnishing wages.......

And you can avoid the bill simply by tossing it into the trash.....or declaring bankruptcy.

It's done every day.

For a business "owner" you don't seem to know a whole lot. Do you know what garnishing wages means?

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 79

RE: Obama raises taxes on 6 MILLION uninsured Middle Cl... - 9/21/2012 5:28:31 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And who sent those jobs overseas? hmm?

Uhhhh.....that would be Clinton.

Oh so Clinton TOLD all those businesses to send their jobs overseas.

Wow.

Uh huh....that's exactly right. It was (and is) called the "North American Free Trade Agreement".

"NAFTA".

(You're welcome to look it up).

It was his opinion that if Mexico, China, India and others were making as much as we were....they could afford OUR products (much like Ford's opinion to double wages for his employees, realizing that if his own employees couldn't afford his product....there didn't seem to be much logic in producing it....and 6 weeks later he had 35,000 men show up asking for a job).

Ergo, our exports would increase.

It's actually a very logical edict.

And yes, that was Clinton who gave us this.

(If I recall...they actually have a word for this kind of dissemination.....I think it's called "reading"....also occasionally referred to as "being aware of the facts").

That's your guy isn't it? Clinton....a Democrat?

Yeah...right....ok...enjoy :)

For a business "owner" you don't seem to understand business very well. NAFTA...was the north american free trade agreement. China and India aren't in North America....with me so far?

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 80

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