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RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 7:19:52 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I have been reading this thread since it was started and everytime I put up a response, I have to pull it because CM does not allow personal data of early childhood trauma, or at least they didn't. I want to respond though because I can relate to that child. She flashed her tits online. I didn't say no to a kiss. They seem different but in the head of a child, pretty much the same. It seemed harmless. After all, only one can't hurt can it?

Her circumstances, being pressured by a predatory adult and giving in, well, that's life. Could she get revenge on him? Punch him in the nose, bite off his penis? Could she do that and move on with her life because she defended herself and showed him she was not going to take it? Doesn't seem like it to me since he stalked her from the safety of his anonymous perch and continued to attack long after the fact. Vile. Vile and predatious. And adult.

Should she gone in to a shell, hidden in the closet for years (as I did), not engaged in any social activity that led her to a young man she THOUGHT liked her? Maybe. I found the closet a very comfortable hideout. But how do you hide from social networks? How do you hide from things that happen in one instant and continue to dog you where ever you go?

She is... was, a kid. I had one of those parents that encouraged me to stand up for myself. I was able to engage one persistant bully and break her nose, leaving me with a reputation for being dangerous. But I was never able to confront my demon because he married my sister. Kinda like being exposed to it daily as one might see on the web.

I do feel for this child. But more I feel disgust for adults who do this to children. And the sheep mentality that somehow must have mated with the wolves who circle in for the kill and laugh. Society sickens me. Lack of empathy sickens me. Not teaching compassion sickens me. Defending bullies by allowing it sickens me. The fact that we have to create a law because we no longer teach our children decency... that just pisses me off.

I would never blame a child for having a childs mind.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 7:29:46 PM   
tiggerspoohbear


Posts: 19141
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline 		Everything that Myssokyst said and twice every day. I've stayed out of this, because there's just so much I could say and none of it without getting a golden ticket.

Thank you for putting into words what I couldn't and didn't know how.

_____________________________

"RABBIT IS GOOD, RABBIT IS WISE".

"I'm a baaa-aaad pussycat".


(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 9:13:54 PM   
DomMeinCT


Posts: 2355
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:


quote:

My 10 yo child has Asberger's and does not have the social skills nor the developmental ability to fight back, let alone recognize in verbal bullying situations that he's being bullied (those incidents were witnessed by adults and reported, thank goodness).



And yet you put him among other 10 year-olds. So instead of expecting 10 year-olds to behave as 10 year-olds, we want to constrain their expression to that suitable for a 10 year-old with Asperger's.

Do you see anything wrong with that?

Check out that Heinlein quote, again.



Yes, of course he belongs in society and with his peers. MOST 10 year olds behave kindly to each other and don't bully. Why would I seek to separate a brilliant 10 year old from his peers, when the solution would be to remove the bullies (or change their behavior)? Do you really expect society to kneel to the lowest common denominator?

Heinlein didn't apply his societal views to children and to quote his world view as a model for the issue of children being bullied is ridiculous. What's next, you're going to pull out Ayn Rand?

Conceptual posturing and philosophizing is siimply throwing bullshit around when one only has opinions, and nothing of true substance or experience to add to a concrete issue.




_____________________________

The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances:
if there is any reaction, both are transformed.
~ Carl Jung

(in reply to descrite)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 9:46:35 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:


quote:

My 10 yo child has Asberger's and does not have the social skills nor the developmental ability to fight back, let alone recognize in verbal bullying situations that he's being bullied (those incidents were witnessed by adults and reported, thank goodness).


And yet you put him among other 10 year-olds. So instead of expecting 10 year-olds to behave as 10 year-olds, we want to constrain their expression to that suitable for a 10 year-old with Asperger's.

Do you see anything wrong with that?

What course of action do you suggest instead?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to descrite)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 9:55:29 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

People commit suicide because the pain is no longer something they can deal with, be it physical pain or emotional pain. People see it as selfish. Master feels this way also but I've tried to explain it to him but I still don't think he can accept it. When I had thought about suicide it was because my depression was so bad that it hurt more than dying. Dying would finally take the pain away. You can only deal with pain for so long until it becomes too much. Your body can no longer handle it. For me the thought of it was anything but selfish. For me it was a way to help those close to me. They would no longer have to deal with my problems and I felt they were better off without me. I would no longer have them being exhausted with my depression. They no longer had to listen to my excuses for not doing things, always sleeping, being in a black hole.

QFT.

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone who hasn't been in the black hole gets this, a point William Styron made in the quote I posted earlier.


quote:

As of right now, my depression isn't as bad as it used to be but will always be a part of me. It's a never ending illness. I have just had to learn to pull myself out of the black hole.

I'm impressed that you can do that. Some days, I just can't escape that gravity.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 9:58:00 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		It's not easy. Thankfully I have Master who now understands my depression enough to know when I need help, like when I sleep all day and night or don't want to leave the house. At that point he will force me to get up and he will find something outdoorsy to do just so I will get some sunlight. Once I'm out I'm fine but getting there is difficult sometimes lol.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 10:12:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I have been reading this thread since it was started and everytime I put up a response, I have to pull it because CM does not allow personal data of early childhood trauma, or at least they didn't. I want to respond though because I can relate to that child. She flashed her tits online. I didn't say no to a kiss. They seem different but in the head of a child, pretty much the same. It seemed harmless. After all, only one can't hurt can it?

Her circumstances, being pressured by a predatory adult and giving in, well, that's life. Could she get revenge on him? Punch him in the nose, bite off his penis? Could she do that and move on with her life because she defended herself and showed him she was not going to take it? Doesn't seem like it to me since he stalked her from the safety of his anonymous perch and continued to attack long after the fact. Vile. Vile and predatious. And adult.

Should she gone in to a shell, hidden in the closet for years (as I did), not engaged in any social activity that led her to a young man she THOUGHT liked her? Maybe. I found the closet a very comfortable hideout. But how do you hide from social networks? How do you hide from things that happen in one instant and continue to dog you where ever you go?

She is... was, a kid. I had one of those parents that encouraged me to stand up for myself. I was able to engage one persistant bully and break her nose, leaving me with a reputation for being dangerous. But I was never able to confront my demon because he married my sister. Kinda like being exposed to it daily as one might see on the web.

I do feel for this child. But more I feel disgust for adults who do this to children. And the sheep mentality that somehow must have mated with the wolves who circle in for the kill and laugh. Society sickens me. Lack of empathy sickens me. Not teaching compassion sickens me. Defending bullies by allowing it sickens me. The fact that we have to create a law because we no longer teach our children decency... that just pisses me off.

I would never blame a child for having a childs mind.



Something I wanted to add... and I agree with what you wrote.

When its on line, its a nameless, faceless attack. You may see a photo, but is it really them? You may see them on cam, but what about everyone who posts the vile bs afterwards? One on one, most kids can hold their own. But faced with a social media of 800 million people.... wow....

As adults, most of us (not all) have developed coping skills and thicker skin... I dont expect kids to have that ability

And I really find it hard to believe that FB cant locate the origin of that photo in their archives to determine where it originated.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 10:12:59 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

There is an objective reality. Feelings are necessarily subjective. I do love me some Heinlein:

quote:

How anybody expects a man to stay in business with every two-bit wowser in the country claiming a veto over what we can say and can't say and what we can show and what we can't show — it's enough to make you throw up. The whole principle is wrong; it's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't eat steak.


Censorship for "bullying" is the same as censoring for "smut." Those of us who enjoy kink ought remember that, most especially.

Don't change my world because some kid killed herself. Lots of kids kill themselves, for lots of reason (most of them stupid, from an adult perspective-- not that the kids are stupid, but that the world really does get better as a grownup...see Dan Savage's "It Gets Better" Project); we really shouldn't custom-tailor our planet for sensitive 15 year-olds. I would like to be able to discuss matters other than brightly-colored bracelets and talking ponies, please.


You seem to be erasing the adult/child divide here. There are lots of things kids can't do that adults are allowed to: vote, drink alcohol, drive, buy property, marry. And schools operate with a lot of strictures that don't apply to the larger world. So I'm not sure that a school's anti-bullying policy would necessarily apply to interactions among adults, who have way more options for defending themselves and or escaping. This distinction is important to me as someone who prizes free speech yet also sees the need to protect kids from abuse.

ETA: There's an undercurrent to the thread of a zero-sum situation, in which one can protect either kids or freedom of expression--but not both. And I'm not sure that mindset is entirely right. Apologies if I'm repeating what others figured out pages ago! Been puzzling this one out for a while.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 10/18/2012 10:17:58 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to descrite)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 10:23:28 PM   
Silentrunner26


Posts: 424
Joined: 7/15/2009
Status: offline 		Back in 1999 a County Officer can into the gas station I was working in . He just came in and leaned on the counter and started to talk . A 15 yr old girl and her 16 yr old boyfrined had made a pact to kill themselves that night . The parents of both did not want them to see each other as they thought they where to young to date . They both agreed to kill themselves after they got off the phone . She hung up went to bed and blew her heart out with her dads 38 snub nose . The boy friend went to bed and fell alseep . When asked why he did not follow her he said he was not that stupid . The parents had to move before someone killed him . If someone wants to end thier own life they will find a way . For what ever reason a life is taken it is a waste .

< Message edited by Silentrunner26 -- 10/18/2012 10:24:10 PM >

(in reply to descrite)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 11:03:17 PM   
descrite


Posts: 459
Joined: 5/14/2012
Status: offline
quote:

You're not intentionally criticising a parent for a) wanting her child to be educated in the mainstream


Sure I am.

I would also criticize a parent who wanted me to only teach my kid Winnie The Pooh because her kid had a learning disability. Or who didn't want me to teach my kid to swim because hers couldn't.

If we customize our civilization to meet the needs of lowest common denomiator, we're going to have a very low society.

quote:

b) having an issue with same child being bullied?


Of course not.

But I can't stand parents that throw their kid in a pool and cry when it drowns.

Physician, heal thyself.

quote:

Most of his biggest challenges are social interaction with others


Right. Those are his problems. But you want to make rules/laws that change the environment for everyone else, to accommodate his problems.



@Miss: I am very sorry for what happened to you-- such a thing should never happen to any child.

But that was rape. At the hands of an adult.

We already have laws for that. Changing the words I am allowed to use won't somehow protect children from pedophiles. In fact, by censoring information, it might make it harder to warn kids about pedos, or detect them once an attack has occurred.



quote:

Yes, of course he belongs in society and with his peers


Right. His peers. The 10 year-olds with Asperger's.

quote:

Do you really expect society to kneel to the lowest common denominator?


Nope. See above.

quote:

Conceptual posturing and philosophizing is siimply throwing bullshit around when one only has opinions, and nothing of true substance or experience to add to a concrete issue.


Ever taught a kid with Asperger's? I have.

I had to explain to him that calling his classmates "niggers" was not going to get them to like him.

He had no problem getting an A on every test I put to him, but he failed to understand basic human interaction.

This was extremely dangerous for him. Especially at my school. One the classmates he taunted ended up killing another one of my pupils (granted, it had nothing to do with racial slurs or bullying-- it was because the victim snitched on the murderer, over a robbery ring they were running).

Hey, you know what's funny? According to many of the posters in this thread, the Asperger's kid would be the bully, in that circumstance.

Or...do you give a kid a waiver from "bullying" charges, if he gets a note from his doctor? (Because that's the way it stands right now, according to the law in many states: a medical profile --to include psych diagnoses-- is the Supreme Rule in the classroom...if a shrink says a kid needs to stand up and slap their desk and shriek like a banshee every 12 minutes, then they must be allowed to do so, even at the cost of the education of the other students.)

quote:

Heinlein didn't apply his societal views to children and to quote his world view as a model for the issue of children being bullied is ridiculous.


Agreed. That wasn't my point.

I will repeat: depriving children of words, or teaching them to fear that the government will imprison them for what they might say or otherwise express, has a "chilling effect": it causes kids to second-guess what they say, or how they say it...which may lead to them NOT expressing themselves freely as adults...which leads to a society that is less free, overall, because conversation and communication (including, say, art) is constrained by preliminary self-restraint.

No, thanks.

I will take a thousand rude bullies, if it means we get to have one Lenny Bruce. I will take a million screaming Nazi, racist, stupid, hateful, KKK scumfucks, if it means we get to have one George Carlin.

I'll paraphrase Bruce (via Dustin Hoffman): "Please don't take away my words."

It's almost quaint to think he was arrested for saying, "cocksucker" in public, isn't it?

Here. In California.

Would you like to go back to live in that world?

I sure don't.














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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 11:14:53 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And I really find it hard to believe that FB cant locate the origin of that photo in their archives to determine where it originated.


Long story short, they don't want to, because it'll take one of their techs maybe a day to do it, with overhead, and their legal department a man month or so to figure out what the implications are in our current, litigatious culture. With a bit of luck, you might even be able to find the source using Google's Image Search, but it would take a while and the guy could have used various means to prevent it (though most actually don't).

For practical purposes, it's a question of money.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 11:19:21 PM   
BoundSlave4Life


Posts: 116
Joined: 7/25/2006
Status: offline 		Now, here's the problem. The bullying she was getting was SO severe that someone photographed her naked corpse on the Autopsy Table and circulated it through the internet.

I'm sorry, but in this case, every aspect of the Bullying went WAYYYYY too far!

(in reply to culareD)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 11:28:28 PM   
descrite


Posts: 459
Joined: 5/14/2012
Status: offline
quote:

I had to explain to him that calling his classmates "****s" was not going to get them to like him.


Fuck me with the irony stick.

CM done took my words away. In the thread about that very thing.

Hey...anyone else see additional layers of irony in the fact that a site encouraging the open discussion of stylized rape and cutting people's flesh for pleasure has a tough time with racial slurs-- in context! Not even as insults!

That's just....awesome.

I will get lulz.

Then suck my thumb for a while....


DomMeinCT-- if you have trouble applying Heinlein, I also remembered you can use Vonnegut. Take a look at "Harrison Bergeron," when you get a chance. Harrison, and his paramour, were both underage, I think....and Diana Moon Glampers worked for the government.


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RE: Bullying? - 10/18/2012 11:59:21 PM   
Sekhemet


Posts: 127
Joined: 7/10/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		troll posts suck

none of you are even connected to the circles of people IN BC are you? - it shows.
I'm not going to blow more air on your foul flames - Suffice it to say laws are being written because of this - MANY other "boys" who are pulling this crap have been arrested in Canada since it happened - get your facts sorted - there WERE NO MORGUE photos - sad really to see so many people blow it out their asses and claim to be thoughtful or smart.

You should be ashamed of yourselves - for feeding the troll.

_____________________________

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Where fetish and desire are explored

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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Bullying? - 10/19/2012 1:10:24 AM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT


quote:


quote:

My 10 yo child has Asberger's and does not have the social skills nor the developmental ability to fight back, let alone recognize in verbal bullying situations that he's being bullied (those incidents were witnessed by adults and reported, thank goodness).



And yet you put him among other 10 year-olds. So instead of expecting 10 year-olds to behave as 10 year-olds, we want to constrain their expression to that suitable for a 10 year-old with Asperger's.

Do you see anything wrong with that?

Check out that Heinlein quote, again.



Yes, of course he belongs in society and with his peers. MOST 10 year olds behave kindly to each other and don't bully. Why would I seek to separate a brilliant 10 year old from his peers, when the solution would be to remove the bullies (or change their behavior)? Do you really expect society to kneel to the lowest common denominator?

Heinlein didn't apply his societal views to children and to quote his world view as a model for the issue of children being bullied is ridiculous. What's next, you're going to pull out Ayn Rand?

Conceptual posturing and philosophizing is siimply throwing bullshit around when one only has opinions, and nothing of true substance or experience to add to a concrete issue.





Remember whom you're replying to here, DomMe. This is the same person who wouldn't lift a finger to help his parents in their old age and who thinks it's funny to fling his dog's sh*t in other people's bushes. Don't expect him to understand.



(in reply to DomMeinCT)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Bullying? - 10/19/2012 3:54:29 AM   
DomMeinCT


Posts: 2355
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: descrite

quote:

You're not intentionally criticising a parent for a) wanting her child to be educated in the mainstream


Sure I am.

I would also criticize a parent who wanted me to only teach my kid Winnie The Pooh because her kid had a learning disability. Or who didn't want me to teach my kid to swim because hers couldn't.

If we customize our civilization to meet the needs of lowest common denomiator, we're going to have a very low society.



Absolutely no one has advocated for that. Once again, you jump to a ridiculous theoretical example and ignore the concrete truths people have given testimony to as well as presented in facts. No one has advocated dumbing down the educational system and no one has advocated customing civilization - bullying is endemic and we need to respond to it given the numbers of children involved in being a bully as well as the victims. Did you read the article I provided and see the numbers of children involved?


quote:

DomMeinCT-- if you have trouble applying Heinlein, I also remembered you can use Vonnegut. Take a look at "Harrison Bergeron," when you get a chance. Harrison, and his paramour, were both underage, I think....and Diana Moon Glampers worked for the government.


Keep namedropping those science fiction authors' thoughts and works, and hoping someone will agree with your weak analogies of real-life.

< Message edited by DomMeinCT -- 10/19/2012 3:59:15 AM >

_____________________________

The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances:
if there is any reaction, both are transformed.
~ Carl Jung

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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Bullying? - 10/19/2012 4:20:00 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
I fought back the last time somene bullied me I kicked their asses each and everyone!

Until they learned do not "F&^% wth jane! I never lost a fight and I hated each and everytime
I had to fight!

I never went to look for it no it always came to me (fighting) I learned how to box and I am very good
at it!

There is a saying in my old neighborhood " beat the biggest and loudest mouth and you will stop the teasing and bulling fast) this
what I did each tme and it worked !'

I made sure my kids drew up in a safe place oh yes they were teased but bulling is so much more, and yes for 7 years this
one boy teased us until I want to kill him he had all of the kids teaseing we never even spoke to him!

Sorry every one but this is no pity party but it still hurt so much! we also gave those values to believe in their own gifts and we told them no
one can take it away !


Mons ( we are all grown but the child inside hurt still play therapy is the best ) bes regards

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Bullying? - 10/19/2012 4:30:10 AM   
BoundSlave4Life


Posts: 116
Joined: 7/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sekhemet

troll posts suck

none of you are even connected to the circles of people IN BC are you? - it shows.
I'm not going to blow more air on your foul flames - Suffice it to say laws are being written because of this - MANY other "boys" who are pulling this crap have been arrested in Canada since it happened - get your facts sorted - there WERE NO MORGUE photos - sad really to see so many people blow it out their asses and claim to be thoughtful or smart.

You should be ashamed of yourselves - for feeding the troll.



http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/so-there-are-naked-autopsy-pics-of-amanda-todd-out.452710065/

Right back at ya.

But hey! If you want more links ---

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/amanda-todd-bully-anonymous-suicide_n_1969792.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Caim%7Cdl44%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D220899

http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/a-jailbait-loving-perv-destroyed-amanda-todds-life

< Message edited by BoundSlave4Life -- 10/19/2012 4:34:32 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Bullying? - 10/19/2012 6:26:56 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		http://www.cbc.ca/m/rich/news/story/2012/10/16/calgary-airdrie-woman-website-comment.html

A man who posted negative comments about the death of Amanda Todd was fired from his job after an Airdrie, Alta., woman alerted his employer.

Todd is the 15-year-old who killed herself last week after suffering years of bullying. Many online memorial sites have popped up in response to her death, and thousands of people have posted comments on them.

Christine Claveau was looking at a site when she saw what she thought was a particularly hateful anonymous post.

She said the comment read, "It's about time this bitch died."

Claveau said she tracked down the identity of the sender in Toronto and forwarded a note to his employer, the retail store Mr. Big and Tall.

The man was fired.

"We are deeply saddened by the loss of Amanda Todd," said Dave McGregor, president and CEO of Grafton-Fraser Inc. which operates the retail chain, in response to a query from CBC News.

"Out of respect for the family, I decided not to comment further on this situation beyond our statement that we took the action we felt to be appropriate. I will tell you that the individual in question is no longer employed with our company."

McGregor said the company's ethics are based on tolerance, respect and fair and honourable treatment of all individuals, internally, with customers and the population as a whole.

"We have zero tolerance for the mistreatment of others no matter what form it takes," he said. "We feel that the focus should remain on the issue at hand, which is bullying and how we work together to stop it. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Todd family."
Mixed reaction online

"I'm glad that they fired him and they took such a strong stance against bullying," said Claveau.

"But I just think that even having him reprimanded or having the embarrassment of his company knowing what he did is what I was aiming for, just to say … you know what you do in your pastime can affect who you are at work and your personal life too."

Claveau said she has received a lot of response to what happened — most of it positive but some of it negative.

"You can't please everybody, so I'm getting a lot of people saying I was the bully in the matter, or it wasn't right to contact his employer. So I'm getting a little bit of negative backlash."

Claveau said so-called "internet trolls" must be held accountable for what they say and do online.

"Trolls" are people who anonymously post negative comments on the internet to elicit a reaction.

She said she's more encouraged than ever now to monitor the internet and "out" those behind hateful statements.

Claveau has started a group of concerned moms who plan to continue alerting authorities to cyberbullying taking place online.



_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Bullying? - 10/19/2012 6:53:12 AM   
TheBanshee


Posts: 403
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:



If you don't care enough about your own life, I don't care either. I will not honor your memory.


I sincerely hope that nobody truly dear to you ever takes their life, but if such a tragic thing were to happen I'd bet that you would reassess this position.

If (God Forbid) someone dear to me should take their own life, it wouldn't imply I would not mourn their death. However, I stand by my quote that I would refuse to honor their life if they discarded it.

quote:



I have a friend who's child committed suicide. Her boyfriend broke up with her. She was 17. In five years she probably wouldn't have remembered the boy's name if she wasn't so impulsive to end it all. Her mother, my friend, will never be the same. Oh, and the boyfriend who she found out was "cheating", she killed herself in front of him. Good luck to him for having a healthy romance in the future cause he's now totally F*d up.


Yep, that's a shocking example. I wonder what must have been going through her mind? I wonder how much pain she would have had to be in? It's sad that she wasn't equipped to deal with it, isn't it?

The truth is, she was a teenage drama queen who really probably didn't expect her stunt to actually work - without going into detail she had tried the stunt a few times before. She was impulsive and a stupid teenager who will never grow up now. Her parents did try to get her help but when you are 17, the health care industry WON'T TALK TO PARENTS DUE TO CONFIDENTIALITY. So, blaming the parents for not intervening isn't always fair. That, however, is a different issue.


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Something is really wrong with people who commit suicide and that usually has to be resolved internally not externally.

We should concentrate on giving kids (and even adults) coping strategies rather than trying to control everyone around them and get them to be so politically correct and we've become so generic we can't have some honest discourse. This isn't to say we can't appeal to kids to be nicer to each other - but there are some people who just aren't going to like some other people.


I really agree with a lot of this. But it really is only half the story.

What about the bullies? Could you not also say "something is really wrong with people who have to bully others in order to establish their own sense of self-esteem"?

[]If the bullying crosses a line into what is already illegal - i.e. posting a naked picture of a minor is considered child porn and there are already laws against that - then there are already laws to handle such things. Bullying is often more subtle. Its making someone feel like an outsider, not inviting them to parties, not allowing them to sit at their lunch table, whispering and giggling then looking over at them. How do you handle those things? I ALREADY did state that we should still appeal to children to be nicer to each other. Teachers and parents should correct the behavior when its "mean", but there will still be those that are simply jerks - and some of those will be the "popular" ones that rule the school. You can't regulate people to like other people, but you can try to get the support and help to the ones that are at risk - those that have been targeted of being bullied.



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If you kill yourself, it is your doing, not the bully.


I think this is very simplistic. You have to be willing to accept that there's often a reason for someone committing suicide? You have to be willing to accept that bullying can harm a person's self worth?

[Bullying does harm a person's self worth - back to reinforcing coping strategies and mechanisms. In severe cases, give students an opportunity to perhaps switch schools to a different district if necessary (without having to pay additional tuition - this could be considered a trade off between schools so the tuition taxes are a wash). Not every family can afford to send students to a private school. Home tutors are sometimes covered and maybe emotional distress can be (if not already) considered justified. I never implied letting the bullied simply flounder in misery.

quote:
Some people internalize EVERYTHING and some people can let things roll off them. Adolescence I swear is a form or psychosis at times and if you've ever had a teenaged daughter you are probably aware of this fact all too well when she has a melt down because you bought the wrong shampoo. I realize school can suck and you can mess up and there are mean girls and it can truly be awful.

I really believe we are working at the wrong end of this problem. Coping with adversity is the better choice.




I think that dealing with both is the even better choice.


I think this can be worked from both sides too, on that part I agree, but I don't think you can legislate how you are allowed to talk with people. That would be a slippery slope. We can educate our children to be more sensitive to those around them and teach them that actions have reactions and consequences. We can try to get more help for the children that are more at risk.

(in reply to crazyml)
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