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RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 4:06:28 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

However, there are things that have been left up to the States or the People that are not within the authorities given to the Federal Government. You can acknowledge that basic truth, right (and, I'm not specifically talking about healthcare, health insurance, etc.; simply a general statement)?

I get that that's a key tenet of yours, but I'm not sure everyone in America agrees.
If the Affordable Care Act lies outside the purview of the federal government, why didn't the Supreme Court (which has a conservative majority) strike it down?


Do you or do you not agree that the Federal Government has limitations that the State and or People themselves do not have?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 4:12:05 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

However, there are things that have been left up to the States or the People that are not within the authorities given to the Federal Government. You can acknowledge that basic truth, right (and, I'm not specifically talking about healthcare, health insurance, etc.; simply a general statement)?

I get that that's a key tenet of yours, but I'm not sure everyone in America agrees.
If the Affordable Care Act lies outside the purview of the federal government, why didn't the Supreme Court (which has a conservative majority) strike it down?

Because the government has the right to impose taxes, and Obamacare is a tax.

Is the requirement that you carry auto insurance a tax?


No, but that's different. I do believe it's State Law that requires auto insurance.

But, more importantly:
    1. If I do not have a Driver's License or vehicle, I do not have to have auto insurance.
    2. My auto insurance rates will reflect the risk of payout I present the insurance company
    3. Previous history of payouts (similar to pre-existing conditions) will result in a higher premium (which isn't allowed under Obamacare)




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 4:36:43 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL
Did you have that same apprehension 4 years ago?

I did ... and it's getting worse by the minute... quick question... Why is it all you 'knowledgeable people don't ever discuss his utterly ineffectual relationship with the legislature. What I see discussed here most of the time is as if you people think he was in fact effective. He had a BIZARRE term as Governor... and it may even break some record for things like overturned vetoes, for instance.
  All this discussion of how much better he'll be than Obama simply serve to obviate the fact that people outside of Massachusetts have no clue what went on there.


And, that has no bearing on the current Administration. Do you see the gridlock in the Legislature (oh, I forgot, that's the GOP's fault since they won't pass anything the Senate and President want)? Obama is using EO's to get stuff done, and allowing un-elected bureaucrats to do the work (ie. the EPA). When Obama had favorable numbers in both branches of the Legislature, did he get stuff done? Barely.

Four years ago, you had guy with <2 years of experience in National Legislature (who also voted 96% of the time with his party) and a guy with 28 years in the national Legislature (who voted with his party 87% of the time).

Comparing Romney's record with a strong Democrat legislature to Obama's record to a predominantly Democrat Legislature is disingenuous.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to FMRFGOPGAL)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 5:20:49 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

"Republicans on welfare" is a little bit like saying: "Democrat pro-lifer"

Come visit this part of the country DS. FULL of em.

In my commercial building, I rent space to a charitable organization that helps people get assistance with EBT, SSI etc. There are a HELL of a lot more Romney stickers than Obama stickers on the cars. A week may go by and there will be none of the latter.

Every one of these people receive or are trying for the umpteenth time to receive Govt assistance and 90% of them appear to be able bodied.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 10/22/2012 5:29:16 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 5:26:15 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967



Who pays nothing? Have any proof that people pay nothing? If so many people paid nothing, why are there so many fucking bankruptcies due to medical bills if only the people with insurance had to pay for medical care?

You can easily avoid the higher premiums, and paying for others by dropping your insurance plan and paying out of pocket for your medical care.

If they paid for it, they wouldn't have the bills that push them into bankruptcy.
You are confusing "Getting a bill in the mail?
with "Paying the bill"
Just because a hospital sends a bill to someone doesn't mean it gets paid.

When the bill doesn't get paid, the hospital has to raise the cost to the rest of us to make up the difference.

Thank you for proving my point.

"As for paying out of pocket for medical care", is your last name Romney or Gates or Pickens or Rockefeller?
That could be one of the most disingenious statements you've ever made.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 10/22/2012 5:29:48 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 5:42:06 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

"Republicans on welfare" is a little bit like saying: "Democrat pro-lifer"

Come visit this part of the country DS. FULL of em.

In my commercial building, I rent space to a charitable organization that helps people get assistance with EBT, SSI etc. There are a HELL of a lot more Romney stickers than Obama stickers on the cars. A week may go by and there will be none of the latter.

Every one of these people receive or are trying for the umpteenth time to receive Govt assistance and 90% of them appear to be able bodied.

Back in college, I volunteered now and then at a soup kitchen. I still vividly recall serving breakfast to one gruff old guy proudly sporting a large Reagan button.

As for antiabortion Democrats, Bart Stupak comes to mind.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 5:44:07 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Republicans on welfare is a bit like saying that King Lear fell into a little pout.

Republicans on welfare are pervasive, and the norm. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 5:57:46 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Do you or do you not agree that the Federal Government has limitations that the State and or People themselves do not have?

I'm sorry to seem evasive, DS, but that strikes me as a more complex question than you're making it out to be. Do you mean how things work on paper or how the federal-state balance has evolved over the country's history (sometimes in response to the states' failure to address key topics, such as slavery or civil rights)? Are you talking about peacetime or wartime (when the federal role tends to expand)?

It might help me understand where you're coming from if you could offer some examples of the federal "limitations" as you see them.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 7:55:32 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		Coming to this late, and I will admit to not having read the entire thread.

I don't think being a businessman per se has much bearing on whether or not someone would make a good president or not. I'm also not sure about how the historian is using the term "businessman". The self-employed, including farmers, would be considered businessmen in the widest sense of the term. And when we speak of "business experience", well being a barista at Starbucks constitutes business experience. One is working in a business.

So while I fully agree that GW Bush's presidency was a complete and utter disaster, it is not clear to me that it was his being a "businessman" that was actually the issue. I think it was that he wasn't very smart.

"Businessmen" are simply people who have been involved in business. I don't see how being a businessman, in and of itself, indicates the level of one's intelligence, problem-solving skills, etc. And business success is varied. Some people are successful at business by being smart; some are successful at business through sheer dumb luck; still others are successful because of family connections. Again, I think one has to parse through the details a little more to understand how business success might lead to better leadership skills. I am not going to say there could be no connection.

I think "businessman" as a construct is a very weak one. There are many businessmen in this country who are truly stupid. I wouldn't want them running the country. But a smart businessman? That's a separate question entirely....

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 11:06:40 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967



Who pays nothing? Have any proof that people pay nothing? If so many people paid nothing, why are there so many fucking bankruptcies due to medical bills if only the people with insurance had to pay for medical care?

You can easily avoid the higher premiums, and paying for others by dropping your insurance plan and paying out of pocket for your medical care.

If they paid for it, they wouldn't have the bills that push them into bankruptcy.
You are confusing "Getting a bill in the mail?
with "Paying the bill"
Just because a hospital sends a bill to someone doesn't mean it gets paid.

When the bill doesn't get paid, the hospital has to raise the cost to the rest of us to make up the difference.

Thank you for proving my point.

"As for paying out of pocket for medical care", is your last name Romney or Gates or Pickens or Rockefeller?
That could be one of the most disingenious statements you've ever made.


Bullshit, why do you think you're special, and shouldn't have to pay for services rendered? The simple answer is if you don't wanna pay, don't go to the fucking Doctor.

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 11:24:21 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Bullshit, why do you think you're special, and shouldn't have to pay for services rendered? The simple answer is if you don't wanna pay, don't go to the fucking Doctor.


And for that same reason, don't walk on my sidewalk, drive on my street, cross my bridge, cop around me, teach anything around me, or anyone in America. Since you all dont want to pay for them, don't use them.    

Why the fuck do you think you are special and don't have to pay for services rendered?


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/22/2012 11:28:14 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 11:36:49 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967



Bullshit, why do you think you're special, and shouldn't have to pay for services rendered? The simple answer is if you don't wanna pay, don't go to the fucking Doctor.

I guess I went totally over your head didn't I?
I didn't say I was special. I said I was sick of paying for all those leftists who can afford insurance but won't buy it.
Your point seems to be that it is their perogative to not buy insurance and suck the rest of us dry. Which is the leftist entitlement attitude?
Fuck those people who are responsible and purchase insurance to take care of themselves and their families. They'll take that extra money and go on a cruise. if something happens, those other people will pay for it.
If someone is badly ill or in an accident, they will go to the ER. They will be treated. they will be billed and if they don't have insurance, they probably won't pay. they'll just declare bankruptcy and start the cycle all over again. The hospital will raise everyone else's bill enough to make up the difference.
Do you advocate that people just stay home and die? I've heard that is the Republican health care plan but I thought it was just a silly rumor. Thank you for confirming it is actually true.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 11:46:53 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967



Bullshit, why do you think you're special, and shouldn't have to pay for services rendered? The simple answer is if you don't wanna pay, don't go to the fucking Doctor.

I guess I went totally over your head didn't I?
I didn't say I was special. I said I was sick of paying for all those leftists who can afford insurance but won't buy it.
Your point seems to be that it is their perogative to not buy insurance and suck the rest of us dry. Which is the leftist entitlement attitude?
Fuck those people who are responsible and purchase insurance to take care of themselves and their families. They'll take that extra money and go on a cruise. if something happens, those other people will pay for it.
If someone is badly ill or in an accident, they will go to the ER. They will be treated. they will be billed and if they don't have insurance, they probably won't pay. they'll just declare bankruptcy and start the cycle all over again. The hospital will raise everyone else's bill enough to make up the difference.
Do you advocate that people just stay home and die? I've heard that is the Republican health care plan but I thought it was just a silly rumor. Thank you for confirming it is actually true.


Everybody dies, even Jesus Christ died. Again, if your sick of paying for others, drop out of society, go live in a cave somewhere.

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 11:50:09 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Bullshit, why do you think you're special, and shouldn't have to pay for services rendered? The simple answer is if you don't wanna pay, don't go to the fucking Doctor.


And for that same reason, don't walk on my sidewalk, drive on my street, cross my bridge, cop around me, teach anything around me, or anyone in America. Since you all dont want to pay for them, don't use them.    

Why the fuck do you think you are special and don't have to pay for services rendered?




YOUR sidewalk? YOUR street? YOUR bridge? Who the fuck are you? John Q. Public?



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 11:51:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Everybody dies, even Jesus Christ died. Again, if your sick of paying for others, drop out of society, go live in a cave somewhere.


If you dont want to pay for insurance... move. Just as simple.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 11:57:08 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Bullshit, why do you think you're special, and shouldn't have to pay for services rendered? The simple answer is if you don't wanna pay, don't go to the fucking Doctor.


And for that same reason, don't walk on my sidewalk, drive on my street, cross my bridge, cop around me, teach anything around me, or anyone in America. Since you all dont want to pay for them, don't use them.    

Why the fuck do you think you are special and don't have to pay for services rendered?




YOUR sidewalk? YOUR street? YOUR bridge? Who the fuck are you? John Q. Public?




You fuckin Sie A, I am. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 12:01:46 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967



Bullshit, why do you think you're special, and shouldn't have to pay for services rendered? The simple answer is if you don't wanna pay, don't go to the fucking Doctor.

I guess I went totally over your head didn't I?
I didn't say I was special. I said I was sick of paying for all those leftists who can afford insurance but won't buy it.
Your point seems to be that it is their perogative to not buy insurance and suck the rest of us dry. Which is the leftist entitlement attitude?
Fuck those people who are responsible and purchase insurance to take care of themselves and their families. They'll take that extra money and go on a cruise. if something happens, those other people will pay for it.
If someone is badly ill or in an accident, they will go to the ER. They will be treated. they will be billed and if they don't have insurance, they probably won't pay. they'll just declare bankruptcy and start the cycle all over again. The hospital will raise everyone else's bill enough to make up the difference.
Do you advocate that people just stay home and die? I've heard that is the Republican health care plan but I thought it was just a silly rumor. Thank you for confirming it is actually true.


Everybody dies, even Jesus Christ died. Again, if your sick of paying for others, drop out of society, go live in a cave somewhere.

So you do side with the leftists. good to know.

I don't mind paying for stuff that is needed. I DO mind paying the way of those who are irresponsible and feel they are entitled to have what I pay for for free.

Again. it's good to know that you have once again confirmed that the Republican health care plan is

"Just die"

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 10/22/2012 12:04:10 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 2:19:24 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
So you do side with the leftists. good to know.
I don't mind paying for stuff that is needed. I DO mind paying the way of those who are irresponsible and feel they are entitled to have what I pay for for free.


They aren't getting it for free. They have to suffer the indignancy of being indigent. That's why they deserve everything. They are poor. They deserve the same food you buy. They deserve the same stuff you work for. They deserve it all because they are poor.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 2:30:55 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

They aren't getting it for free. They have to suffer the indignancy of being indigent. That's why they deserve everything. They are poor. They deserve the same food you buy. They deserve the same stuff you work for. They deserve it all because they are poor.

No one but you says the poor deserve anything. That is your libertarian-ladened bullshit term. We help the poor because we have decided that's what a society should do in its broadest sense of compassion and mutual assistance.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 10/22/2012 2:31:25 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Is a Businessman President Good for Business? - 10/22/2012 2:31:42 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967



Bullshit, why do you think you're special, and shouldn't have to pay for services rendered? The simple answer is if you don't wanna pay, don't go to the fucking Doctor.

I guess I went totally over your head didn't I?
I didn't say I was special. I said I was sick of paying for all those leftists who can afford insurance but won't buy it.
Your point seems to be that it is their perogative to not buy insurance and suck the rest of us dry. Which is the leftist entitlement attitude?
Fuck those people who are responsible and purchase insurance to take care of themselves and their families. They'll take that extra money and go on a cruise. if something happens, those other people will pay for it.
If someone is badly ill or in an accident, they will go to the ER. They will be treated. they will be billed and if they don't have insurance, they probably won't pay. they'll just declare bankruptcy and start the cycle all over again. The hospital will raise everyone else's bill enough to make up the difference.
Do you advocate that people just stay home and die? I've heard that is the Republican health care plan but I thought it was just a silly rumor. Thank you for confirming it is actually true.


Everybody dies, even Jesus Christ died. Again, if your sick of paying for others, drop out of society, go live in a cave somewhere.

Maybe you should give that a try yourself?
Sounds like you're a lot sicker of society than Ron is, and it'd stop you posting drivel on the internet if you were holed up in a cave somewhere as well.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 100
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