Do republicans even have a conscience? (Full Version)

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defiantbadgirl -> Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 9:35:51 AM)

"I don't want to pay for anyone else's health care." "I don't want to pay for women to have contraceptives." Is rape really rape? The more I see the who cares about anyone else, survival of the fittest, it's all about ME ME ME attitude, the more I wonder if most republicans even have a conscience. Lack of a conscience is considered an incurable personality disorder. Antisocial Personality Disorder (formerly called Sociopath) and Narcissistic Personality Disorder are both characterized by the lack of a conscience. It just floors me how so many people can be so heartless..




JanahX -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 9:38:18 AM)

They justify it by wanting to give women the death penalty for having a miscarriage.




Rule -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 9:40:19 AM)

Quite.




Aileen1968 -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 9:44:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

They justify it by wanting to give women the death penalty for having a miscarriage.


That's funny. I'm republican and have never wanted to give women the death penalty for having a miscarriage.

Edited to add...I don't want to pay for anyone else's healthcare or birth control. I also don't expect anyone to pay for mine.




JanahX -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 9:47:27 AM)

I dont think its very funny. And I dont think its funny that bills like this are even being written or even being considered.




kdsub -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 9:48:14 AM)

quote:

ME ME ME attitude


I do understand your feelings... I think you are right about some...but... I think most feel, rightly or wrongly, that people must take responsibility for their own lives and the lives of their families.

Contraceptives are different. I see nothing wrong, if not realistic, in thinking birth control is wrong and against their religion. I don’t agree but see their point. At the low cost and availability of contraceptive devices it seems heavy handed to make contraceptives mandatory in privately paid health insurance.

Butch




Aileen1968 -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 9:53:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

I dont think its very funny. And I dont think its funny that bills like this are even being written or even being considered.


What's funny is that people waste brain power even thinking that anything extreme like this would even be taken seriously.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 9:56:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ME ME ME attitude


I think most feel, rightly or wrongly, that people must take responsibility for their own lives and the lives of their families.
Butch


Many people can't afford to take responsibility for their own lives and the lives of their families when it comes to health care. Republicans know this but they don't care as long as it's not about them personally. No conscience, no empathy.




tazzygirl -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 10:05:37 AM)

How do you control the masses?




kdsub -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 10:09:24 AM)

Not true in my opinion... the new healthcare laws do not necessarily take care of those who cannot afford insurance any more than the existing laws. Most opposition is the forced requirement rather than the benefits. Many Republicans believe there should be better ways and options.

I find fault with the Republican party, not Republicans, in not presenting hard cold alternatives for consideration. Just being against something without showing what they think is a better plan is certainly not responsible in my book.

So I think we agree on the Republican party administrators but not on Republicans.

Butch




RedPolitician -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 10:19:30 AM)

Plain and simple I do not feel that it is the government's place to provide certain forms of aid because it sets precedence for them to step beyond their bounds. It has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with the aid, it is just not their place. If a person needs assistance, whatever it may be, than people have a responsibility to their fellow man to aid them. However it is not an obligation and if your beliefs go against the beliefs of a program, such as some Christians towards contraceptives or Scientologists towards psychology, than you should be allowed to refuse to contribute. This is a nation of choices and being forced to contribute against your beliefs is disgusting.

This is not an issue with women having contraceptives or with people receiving aid for food or medication, this is an issue on who provides the aid. It is easy enough to say that everyone wants to help however there are plenty of reasons people do not want to help, be it religious or what have you, and I find the forced acceptance of these programs to be disgusting. Doubly so when these programs are heavily flawed in their execution, in turn not always helping the people they are suppose to help or run terribly inefficiently, and yet you are still forced to pay into a system you might not have belief in.

edit on typo.




tazzygirl -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 10:34:48 AM)

quote:

Plain and simple I do not feel that it is the government's place to provide certain forms of aid because it sets precedence for them to step beyond their bounds.


Certain forms... quite a telling comment.

Do explain to me how that fits into the conservative mindset of welfare for corporations.




RedPolitician -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 10:52:31 AM)

Ignoring the fact that the overwhelmingly vast majority of corporations are small mom and pop businesses and that a corporation is only a business structure and taxable entity who is no different than you or I in the eyes of the government for this reason, they are not inherently evil things.

On that note, I do not believe in corporate welfare either so it is a moot point. It is terrible if someone's business goes under but when a business goes under it opens up the market for another business to fill its void.

Tazzygirl, how do you feel about Social Security Disability's default stance to deny all applicants access to a program they pay into by force, only allowing them aid when they appeal 2 to 3 times and forced to wait 2-3 years to even get heard?

The original point of this thread was a question of if Republicans were sociopaths based on their views towards government aid. This is about as accurate as the belief that Democrats are unintelligent children based on their shortsighted view on the effects of their actions and their support of programs solely because they have something to gain from it. Of course Democrats are not these things as a whole but the perception can seem that way at times, just like if you have no idea why a Republican believes what they believe they may seem heartless and uncaring.




tazzygirl -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 11:09:54 AM)

quote:

Tazzygirl, how do you feel about Social Security Disability's default stance to deny all applicants access to a program they pay into by force, only allowing them aid when they appeal 2 to 3 times and forced to wait 2-3 years to even get heard?


There is a 2 - 3 year between SSDI and Medicare. This waiting period is written into law, 1972 I believe.

How do I feel? It pisses me off. Pure and simple. There is a 5 month period between applying and receiving the first response for SSDI. That response, in 60% of the cases, is a denial. Very few conditions receive an automatic acceptance, renal failure being one of them. Most others are rubber stamped denied to see if you truly will go after those benefits. And we pay into this.

Corporations show up at a dinner function or a fund raiser and within less than a year have their benefit check in hand. And I am not talking about the mom and pop's here. The big boys get far far more. To the tune of 100 Billion this year alone.




DomCplsc -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 11:10:42 AM)

Lets see, so many topics.
Weither or not republicans have a conscience....I would say very much so. I'm not understanding the argument to the contrary. Majority of the people like Bill Clinton because in his last 4 yrs he worked with the Republican Party and accomplished great things. Welfare reform was one of his greatest accomplishments lead by republicans...why did it work?....easy it is much better to teach a person to fish than just give them the fish to eat. Enabling people by feeding them instead of making policies that create jobs so they can feed themselves, is unconscionable.
Now lets talk birth control...I believe others have explained this well previously. It is not the tax payers job nor the governments job to enforce this or pay for it. Most insurance companies pay for birth control anyways. The problem as stated above was forcing religious institutions to pay for it....wrong answer and is not the American way. I don't know of anyone that would buy my condemns anyways so it's not an attack on woman but an attack on government over reaching its boundaries. Red politician said it perfectly and without campaign slogans from either side. Just common sense.
Lets talk about welfare for corporations. Agree with ya on this...but let's look at an example. 80 billion dollars given to oil companies in the last 20 yrs. like they need it. Flip side....80 billion dollars given to green energy companies in the last 3.5 yrs with more than a handful failing. So yes there is corporate welfare that shouldn't be there but let's open our eyes and see what is going on.
I don't consider myself a repub or dem but an independent/libertarian. I don't trust a majority of the politicians and anyone who has been there over 10 yrs should be voted out anyways as they have helped in leading us to this point. I will Not vote for Obama because I didn't understand what Obama stood for until the last cpl years and I for one won't make that mistake again.
Google Frank Marshall Davis, Bill Ayers, and Edward Said. Watch Obama 2016. Watch all news outlets and only believe 10 percent of it and than research on your own. What we don't need is all these voters placing there vote because of it being cool or based on campaign talking points and rhetoric. Vote after seeing what the other side has to say and researching both sides. Do the work or don't vote.
Or disregard everything I pointed out and "vote for revenge" and not because you researched and made an informed decision after weighing both sides.




DomCplsc -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 11:21:25 AM)

You might find thisinteresting also in your conscience remarks. This is from a liberal source.
http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/01/07/dataset-of-the-day-who-is-more-generous-republicans-or-democrats/




slvemike4u -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 11:22:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

They justify it by wanting to give women the death penalty for having a miscarriage.


That's funny. I'm republican and have never wanted to give women the death penalty for having a miscarriage.

Edited to add...I don't want to pay for anyone else's healthcare or birth control. I also don't expect anyone to pay for mine.


But that really isn't the question is it ?
Let me ask you the actual question.
Do you think it is right and proper that tax monies be used to give those, who are unable to provide it for themselves, healthcare ?
Or,conversely,do you insist that those unfortunate folks are on their own ?


A follow-up if you don't mind.
How do you feel about paying for it in either case ?
Fact of the matter is that these folks will wind up in an ER sooner or later anyway,so which way is it going to be.
Up front,where costs can be controlled or from the ER where costs shall go thru the roof and you will pay for it embedded in your insurance bills [:)] ?




Yachtie -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 11:39:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I find fault with the Republican party, not Republicans, in not presenting hard cold alternatives for consideration. Just being against something without showing what they think is a better plan is certainly not responsible in my book.


This supposes that there must be some form of plan on the table. A plan, any plan, is in response to some desire, whether it be building a bridge or as to some form of social safety net system. Perhaps no alternative, or change to what was/is is presented simply because one is not seen as necessary.

In some respects what we have is democrats seeing necessity where republicans see none.








tazzygirl -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 11:45:49 AM)

quote:

Enabling people by feeding them instead of making policies that create jobs so they can feed themselves, is unconscionable.


Where are the jobs so they can feed themselves? Everyone has agreed the government doesnt create jobs.

quote:

Now lets talk birth control...I believe others have explained this well previously. It is not the tax payers job nor the governments job to enforce this or pay for it. Most insurance companies pay for birth control anyways. The problem as stated above was forcing religious institutions to pay for it....wrong answer and is not the American way. I don't know of anyone that would buy my condemns anyways so it's not an attack on woman but an attack on government over reaching its boundaries. Red politician said it perfectly and without campaign slogans from either side. Just common sense.


Certain religious organizations are exempted.

The mandate itself would not even affect churches, merely the hospitals, universities and other public institutions that serve the wider population and receive secular government funds. There is even an exemption for religious organizations in the law where third party insurance would cover birth control, but Catholics are saying this is not enough. And while I am totally in support of creating a super-thick wall between church and state, I also think that bending over backwards for one type of religion isn’t keeping that wall separate.

Claiming they are self-insured isnt going to work.

quote:

Lets talk about welfare for corporations. Agree with ya on this...but let's look at an example. 80 billion dollars given to oil companies in the last 20 yrs. like they need it. Flip side....80 billion dollars given to green energy companies in the last 3.5 yrs with more than a handful failing. So yes there is corporate welfare that shouldn't be there but let's open our eyes and see what is going on.


100 Billion to corporations this year

quote:

Rising federal spending and huge deficits are pushing the nation toward a financial and economic crisis. Policymakers should find and eliminate wasteful, damaging, and unneeded programs in the federal budget. One good way to save money would be to cut subsidies to businesses. Corporate welfare in the federal budget costs taxpayers almost $100 billion a year.


http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/PA694.pdf

A great list of the different types of "welfare" programs for the "public"

Adoption Assistance 2,480.0 (numbers in millions)
Federal Pell Grants 41,000.0
Foster Care Title IV 3,976.0
Medicaid 228,000.0

As fas as Medicaid...

If you're approved for disability benefits, you'll also get Medicare or Medicaid, depending on whether you receive SSDI or SSI benefits.

Not all that cost is associated with being poor, lazy and unmotivated.

quote:

Or disregard everything I pointed out and "vote for revenge" and not because you researched and made an informed decision after weighing both sides.


You havent said anything I havent researched... in depth. Not everyone is out for "revenge". Its simply another talking point to try and influence an election depending on the size of your wallet.




MrBukani -> RE: Do republicans even have a conscience? (11/4/2012 11:47:20 AM)

No republicats dont have a soul!




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