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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 4:40:30 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
For those parents who don't vaccinate their children, do they know that since so many parents have foregone vaccines, both polio and whooping cough cases are showing up more and more into western society.

That's the pro vac arguement...risk autism to avoid polio & whooping cough.

Polio and smallpox are ugly diseases that I would not wish on anyone. Nevertheless ... is it truly so bad when people die or are maimed by these and other vaccinable diseases? Populations benefit from selection pressures, after all. Gene pools respond to disease by evolving resistance to the disease. When the disease is artificially removed, the gene pools do not evolve resistance to the disease and consequently the population is forever vulnerable to the disease. From an evolutionary point of view, for example, condoms are bad.

A std that eventually kills and will inevitably be transmitted to any kids you have is not an evolutionary pressure: if anything it's the opposite as it can permanently close down the genelines it infects.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 5:11:29 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For those parents who don't vaccinate their children, do they know that since so many parents have foregone vaccines, both polio and whooping cough cases are showing up more and more into western society.

That's the pro vac arguement...risk autism to avoid polio & whooping cough.



It's a pro science argument.

No-one has been able to demonstrate a link between vaccination and autism. Fuck, one Japanese study showed data that indicated that vaccination reduced instances of autism.

Many people have demonstrated a link between not vaccinating and the incidence of these horrible diseases.


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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 7:02:15 AM   
theRose4U


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For those parents who don't vaccinate their children, do they know that since so many parents have foregone vaccines, both polio and whooping cough cases are showing up more and more into western society.

That's the pro vac arguement...risk autism to avoid polio & whooping cough.

No. The argument is risk rare serious side effects, which does not include autism, to avoid polio, pertussis, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, measles and a bunch of other diseases.

The fact is that a huge mountain of evidence shows no corelation between vaccine and autism.

Got the vaccines & still got pertusis, chicken pox, measles & what was thought to be mumps (just bad gland involved throat thing). Finally stopped getting flu shots because I ALWAYS come down sick within 3 days of shot even if I get it in summer before flu/cold season has even started

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 7:12:04 AM   
GreedyTop


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I had the vacs for polio/mumps/measles/chckpox.

had the chicken pox when I was a kidlet, got measles as an adult. Not austistic on any spectrum. Nor are any of my younger cousins (who were all vaccinated), or any of THEIR kids. IN fact, myself and the cousins (and their kids) have been (across the board) low on allergies, illnesses, etc. The exceptions to that have been genetically proven things (NPS, for instance).


ETA: I am almost 50 yrs old. The alleged ingredients to the vaccines that are accused of being contributors to autism were in full-fledged use here in the US at the time of my injections, as were those of my cousins (youngest 1st cousin is less than 15 yrs younger than me).

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 11/7/2012 7:15:04 AM >

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 9:58:45 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For those parents who don't vaccinate their children, do they know that since so many parents have foregone vaccines, both polio and whooping cough cases are showing up more and more into western society.

That's the pro vac arguement...risk autism to avoid polio & whooping cough.

No. The argument is risk rare serious side effects, which does not include autism, to avoid polio, pertussis, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, measles and a bunch of other diseases.

The fact is that a huge mountain of evidence shows no corelation between vaccine and autism.

Got the vaccines & still got pertusis, chicken pox, measles & what was thought to be mumps (just bad gland involved throat thing). Finally stopped getting flu shots because I ALWAYS come down sick within 3 days of shot even if I get it in summer before flu/cold season has even started

You must have a severe immunodefiency illness to have caught all those diseases since roughly 1995, the year the chicken pox vaccine became available. I'd recommend living in a bubble.

But even if you aren't making shit up that doesn't change the fact that vaccines do not cause autism.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 11:23:51 AM   
kitkat105


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Status: offline 		It is well documented that someone people who are vaccinated cannot develop immunity (their body does not adequately convert and create antibodies). It is listed as a potential side effect. The best example (and most common) is hepatitis B. It takes the average person a course of 3 shots to develop adequate titre levels of immunity. However, some people take more.

Most vaccinations also have a time period where the receiver will lose their immunity eventually. MMR frequently wears off after 20-30 years, so it's important for people over 50 to either get their labs checked or get a booster shot.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 12:30:26 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Not to mention that a vaccine wont do squat if the person has already been exposed.

As far as the hep B.... I have had the series three times... it simply doesnt take with me.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 3:02:13 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitkat105

It is well documented that someone people who are vaccinated cannot develop immunity (their body does not adequately convert and create antibodies). It is listed as a potential side effect. The best example (and most common) is hepatitis B. It takes the average person a course of 3 shots to develop adequate titre levels of immunity. However, some people take more.

Most vaccinations also have a time period where the receiver will lose their immunity eventually. MMR frequently wears off after 20-30 years, so it's important for people over 50 to either get their labs checked or get a booster shot.

I'm aware of that. However someone who had that list of basic vaccinations fail and also somehow managed to get exposed to all of them and survive? With no ability to make antibodies?

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 4:51:16 PM   
kitkat105


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Status: offline 		Yeah.. does sound fishy to me and I'm certainly no immunologist.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 5:25:58 PM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		The immune system has a lot of back-ups. When one process fails, it will cause - sometimes severe - trouble, but sometimes it may be compensated for by another immune process.

As for vaccines, these usually - incongruently - are directed against virusses and evoke the production of antibodies. That is incongruent, for ordinarily the immune system does not rely on antibodies to oppose virusses. The primary defense (there are also other defenses) against virus infected cells are the cytotoxic T cells: veritable battleships whose purpose it is to destroy virus infected cells.

So not being able to produce antibodies upon vaccination does not imply that one is vulnerable to the particular disease that is being vaccinated against. As long as the infected cells specific cytotoxic T cells are present and active, most virus diseases will be eradicated from the body.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 7:04:46 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For those parents who don't vaccinate their children, do they know that since so many parents have foregone vaccines, both polio and whooping cough cases are showing up more and more into western society.

That's the pro vac arguement...risk autism to avoid polio & whooping cough.


Hell yes! And also to create a herd immunity so that those who are unable to have vaccines will be protected as well.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 7:09:02 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~

I had the vacs for polio/mumps/measles/chckpox.

had the chicken pox when I was a kidlet, got measles as an adult. Not austistic on any spectrum. Nor are any of my younger cousins (who were all vaccinated), or any of THEIR kids. IN fact, myself and the cousins (and their kids) have been (across the board) low on allergies, illnesses, etc. The exceptions to that have been genetically proven things (NPS, for instance).


ETA: I am almost 50 yrs old. The alleged ingredients to the vaccines that are accused of being contributors to autism were in full-fledged use here in the US at the time of my injections, as were those of my cousins (youngest 1st cousin is less than 15 yrs younger than me).


Did you get your MMR boosters? Some vaccines need boosters or they become ineffective. I got my DPT booster last year. I cannot recall my last MMR booster.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/7/2012 9:34:06 PM   
GreedyTop


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Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Nope. not unless it was in the antibiotic shot I got when I had measles. otherwise the only booster I've ever had was a tetanus shot when I cut my foot open on a broken sprinkler head.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/23/2012 5:04:46 PM   
FreeFromSin


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Status: offline 		We must determine what is causing Autism. 1 in 68 boys gets it now! This was never the case years ago. They did ban a certain chemical in '99 that they knew (pharmaceutical companies) caused Autistic disease.

Jenny McCaurtney the celebrity has told the media for yrs.

She has an Autistic son. She changed his diet and claims his symptoms were erased.

We pump in so many man-made chemicals. They are toxic to our genes and DNA. Some alter our DNA. They found these bad chemicals in toothpaste and milk!!!! They ship them overseas and re-package these products to sell as imports to the US when they get banned! It is disgusting and criminal. Their liability ends at the shelf.
Corporations do not like to be told, nt to do something.

Countries like Germany, Finland or Sweden do not allow the chemicals we allow in our country.

The fertilizer we use is banned in Germany! It is considered toxic and poison and leathel, yet The United States does nothing to protect us!

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/23/2012 5:56:56 PM   
RemoteUser


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Status: offline 		I'm more interested in seeing research that crosses over from ADD/ADHD to autism than strictly focusing on autism alone. The number of ways autism can present (in part thanks to the umbrella effect) indicates that it's not a "lone disease" but more causal.

When my son was born, the flavour of the month for causality was laid primarily on the mother by way of everything from genetics to smoking. While those studies seemed interesting when they came out, they were short lived because there was nothing definitive. By that same token, the whole diet concept (anything from red dye to gluten) seems to be individual or statistical, which is indicative but not definitive.

When they get to defining causes more concretely, I will be happy to sit up and notice, because it's in my son's best interests. Until then it's seminars, needles, and charities; that's the reality of the information on autism as it is presented to those who have it (or are related to those who do).


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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/24/2012 5:53:41 AM   
TheBanshee


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad


Everything I've seen on wheat/dairy so far has failed to show effects when attempts at repeating the findings were made.


I don't know about studies and this is anecdotal, but my nephew with aspergers (on the autism spectrum) does so much better on gluten/wheat free and with a restriction of raw milk being his only dairy.

His "symptoms" skyrocket when he eats the wrong foods. That's enough for my sister to go on, to continue the restricted diet.


Actually I was recently told by a physician that Asperger's Syndrome was removed from the Autism Spectrum Disorders as they now believe it is not related to Autism after all.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/24/2012 6:41:21 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBanshee

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad


Everything I've seen on wheat/dairy so far has failed to show effects when attempts at repeating the findings were made.


I don't know about studies and this is anecdotal, but my nephew with aspergers (on the autism spectrum) does so much better on gluten/wheat free and with a restriction of raw milk being his only dairy.

His "symptoms" skyrocket when he eats the wrong foods. That's enough for my sister to go on, to continue the restricted diet.


Actually I was recently told by a physician that Asperger's Syndrome was removed from the Autism Spectrum Disorders as they now believe it is not related to Autism after all.

Now that's interesting.
It'll bugger up the people who are using "skyrocketing" rates of autism diagnosis as an argument against vaccination as well...

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/24/2012 7:10:55 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FreeFromSin

We must determine what is causing Autism. 1 in 68 boys gets it now! This was never the case years ago. They did ban a certain chemical in '99 that they knew (pharmaceutical companies) caused Autistic disease.

Jenny McCaurtney the celebrity has told the media for yrs.

She has an Autistic son. She changed his diet and claims his symptoms were erased.


Jenny McCarthy is an ignorant fool and/or a liar of epic proportions. Her son never appears in public so her lie about his improvement cannot simply be seen to be a lie. All claims abour diet and autism have failed to live up to scrutiny.

No chemical was banned because it caused autism. A chemical that some bunko artists blamed for autism was removed from most vaccines just in case. Autism rates continued to increase.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/24/2012 7:27:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Actually I was recently told by a physician that Asperger's Syndrome was removed from the Autism Spectrum Disorders as they now believe it is not related to Autism after all.


And that is the crux of the rise in numbers. Many people were suddenly added. Couple that with the knowledge that many of those disgnostic criteria changed based upon a kook of a doctor's research and its been problematic ever since.

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RE: Baby monkeys develop autism symptoms after obtainin... - 11/24/2012 8:09:47 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBanshee
Actually I was recently told by a physician that Asperger's Syndrome was removed from the Autism Spectrum Disorders as they now believe it is not related to Autism after all.

In my opinion, indeed it is not.


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