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RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 4:57:31 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Because gay couples want their relationships to be treated with dignity and respect, not as a second class relationship.
Regardless, the Defense of Marriage Act still applies, and gay married couples won't be able to file a joint tax return, etc. etc. Nor is it entirely clear to me that other states have to recognize marriages that are not legal under their own laws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If you have legal unions... then what is the difference? They can always be married in a church there is no law against it today. Just so long as a legal civil union is had they would also have support and property protection.

Why haggle over wording?

Butch



_____________________________

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 7:46:55 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PunisherNOLA


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That is my point. were you not the one complaining about taxing it?


This was my original post:
quote:

Fr:
One has to wonder why it is that all of those who don't smoke pot are all in favor of taxing it.

My point was and is that many on the right constantly carp about being "singled" out to be taxed and yet when it comes to cannibis they are all in favor of singling out someone to tax as long as it is not them. Taxing cannibis is no more logical than taxing coffee,tea or chocolate all of which are organic forms of speed.
btw: Totally fine butt in your new avitar.



quote:

Ahh, so you're simply returning the favor by whining about pot being taxed,


Perhaps if you were to read what I post and respond to it your reading skills might not be called to task.

quote:

or rather because non partakers want to tax it. I'm all for seeing those who smoke weed being able to do it legally, but that it should be treated just as we do alcohol.


Why?

quote:

That means added to the "sin tax" category, only sold to those 21 or over, regulated as to DUI laws and things of that nature..


Do you know of any objective test to validate "impairment" of those using cannibis?

quote:

What can possibly be your problem with that other than it seems to you to be those on the right who want to do this?



My problem is that those who constantly decry the govt "taxing them to death" are the ones in favor of adding another tax.

(in reply to PunisherNOLA)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 7:51:39 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Because gay couples want their relationships to be treated with dignity and respect, not as a second class relationship.
Regardless, the Defense of Marriage Act still applies, and gay married couples won't be able to file a joint tax return, etc. etc. Nor is it entirely clear to me that other states have to recognize marriages that are not legal under their own laws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If you have legal unions... then what is the difference? They can always be married in a church there is no law against it today. Just so long as a legal civil union is had they would also have support and property protection.

Why haggle over wording?

Butch




Yeah, this is looking more and more like contracts all said and done, and it will end up to be a 'among the several states' issue under the guise of  14th no?  And SCOTUS is gonna hafta hear that bitch, and I am trying to think of how vermiform the language of some narrow ruling will look.



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(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 7:52:33 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because, honestly, more people would probably use it if it were legal. And many would want to avoid the stigma of using something illegal.


This would be opinion with no validation.

quote:

Its not much different than when prohibition ended.


Alcohol ,to my understanding, is second only to nicotine in its physiologicaly addictive qualitits. Cannibis on the other hand , to my knowledge,has never been shown to have any physically addictive properties.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 7:55:45 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Alcohol ,to my understanding, is second only to nicotine in its physiologicaly addictive qualitits. Cannibis on the other hand , to my knowledge,has never been shown to have any physically addictive properties.

There's some debate about that, in fact.
One thing that is worth remembering is that when you're smoking the stuff as resin, you need to mix it with tobacco to put it in a spliff.
I've met a lot of people who started off smoking as a mixer for the dope, and are still hooked on tobacco decades after they graduated university and stopped smoking more dope on a weekly basis than a Jamaican dub band...

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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 8:02:59 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

The gangster infrastructure is already in place to get the stuff into the country and to its consumers. Its people already know how to avoid police - why would IRS agents be more of a challenge?




Given the hassles, ripoffs, light bags, droughts, and the odd batch that had diesel fuel exposure during the smuggling process, I'd be perfectly happy to just drop by the store, and pay what they ask at the register.

I live in California. I have my letter from the doctor, and my membership in a local collective with a fantastic varietal selection. There is no tax, because this is medicine, but because my state legislature was derelict in their duty to devise a coherent framework, the money I spend at the store goes right back into the underground economy.

Marijuana legalization needs to be addressed in a realistic and pragmatic way. There is no great direct windfall of tax dollars here, the real benefits are in law enforcement saving, and reducing the social damage of a horribly failed policy, but we are going to need to have better drug education and treatment programs. I have no issue whatsoever with taxing a legal intoxicant to cover that sort of thing.

This is my silver lining on the Obama reelection, Peon. I'll probably be on the subject at length more than twice, as I have been in the past, so stay tuned, if it's a topic you think worth discussing.


A topic well worth discussing.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 8:15:43 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


This.
If you buy a bottle of scotch, you can be reasonably sure that it's full of whisky.
It'd be nice to be able to buy dope the same way, so that it isn't cut with three or four kinds of shit.


Urban legends aside one usually has to pay extra to get pot that as been adulterated.

quote:

(Also, you can buy all sorts of scotch, and it'd be nice if the same thing happened with the whacky baccy: wouldn't it be great if you could get dope other than skunk that smells like Shane McGowan or resin?)

My understanding is that "variatials" are redily available in places like amsterdam...here in the states the choices are wide and deep

quote:

There's also the fact that, with the stuff legalised, the illegal distribution network will have the legs kicked out from under it and wither away because you can buy the same stuff legally, and probably a lot cheaper.


So far that has not been the case. The "dispensaries" charge more than local "connections for similar quality

quote:

I think tazzy's on the ball with the reference to prohibition: I'd much rather drink Bombay Sapphire or Tanqueray rather than bathtub gin that might blind me, put it that way.


With the exception of tequila I make my own hooch(ethanol). Tq on the other hand is a science that I can only aproximate so I rely on the pros for my supply.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 8:18:30 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Alcohol ,to my understanding, is second only to nicotine in its physiologicaly addictive qualitits. Cannibis on the other hand , to my knowledge,has never been shown to have any physically addictive properties.

There's some debate about that, in fact.
One thing that is worth remembering is that when you're smoking the stuff as resin, you need to mix it with tobacco to put it in a spliff.
I've met a lot of people who started off smoking as a mixer for the dope, and are still hooked on tobacco decades after they graduated university and stopped smoking more dope on a weekly basis than a Jamaican dub band...


I seldom smoke it for obvious health reasons but if one distills the thc and mixes it with medical grade dmso it can be applied topically for instant absorbtion into the blood stream.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 10:09:15 AM   
PunisherNOLA


Posts: 50
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		You're crying because you believe those on the right are the ones in favor of taxing cannibis, and those who don't smoke it. I didn't misread what you posted, you even quoted it again, nice and bolded.

Actually if it were up to the right, the sweet leaf would never be legal in the first place, making it a moot point. But if it's going to become legal and regulated by the government, it's going to be subject to taxation and there are no two ways about it. It's really not a matter of "want."

As for an objective test for impairment, I really don't think there is any sort of "objective" test. A field sobriety test would likely be a fair starting point, though. There are a lot of data that suggests those DUI of pot are not AS impaired as someone who is DUI on a few cocktails, but still impaired. Where is the line drawn, and why should those driving stoned not be subject to DUI laws? I think those impaired because of taking perscription drugs should as well, along with those driving with a phone to their ear.

Heretic: No, there may not be a windfall of tax dollars, at least not immediately. But that savings in law enforcement would hopefully be redirected to somewhere else where it can do some good.

Of course, it's only two states thusfar and as far as the federal government is concerned it's still illegal so the debate will continue for some time to come.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 10:34:48 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PunisherNOLA

You're crying because you believe those on the right are the ones in favor of taxing cannibis, and those who don't smoke it. I didn't misread what you posted, you even quoted it again, nice and bolded.

You clearly have misread me.

quote:

Actually if it were up to the right, the sweet leaf would never be legal in the first place, making it a moot point.


My point was about taxation and not who makes what legal.

quote:

But if it's going to become legal and regulated by the government, it's going to be subject to taxation and there are no two ways about it. It's really not a matter of "want."


We both know that the govt will tax what it feels it can get away with.

quote:

As for an objective test for impairment, I really don't think there is any sort of "objective" test. A field sobriety test would likely be a fair starting point, though. There are a lot of data that suggests those DUI of pot are not AS impaired as someone who is DUI on a few cocktails, but still impaired. Where is the line drawn, and why should those driving stoned not be subject to DUI laws? I think those impaired because of taking perscription drugs should as well, along with those driving with a phone to their ear.


I have no problem with field sobriety test that test ones mortor skills. ..pot alcohol,script drugs or asleep at the wheel all included. The authorities often rely on other less objective criteria and those I would challange the validity. I could not agree more on the phone thing.



< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/8/2012 10:36:47 AM >

(in reply to PunisherNOLA)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 10:47:03 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I seldom smoke it for obvious health reasons but if one distills the thc and mixes it with medical grade dmso it can be applied topically for instant absorbtion into the blood stream.

Well, good luck doing that while you're stoned.
I've known people who got so out of it just testing that they hadn't been stiffed by their connection that making a bong out of a beer tin because they'd run out of rizlas became rocket science. Trying to do serious chemistry in that state could well produce a bigger bang than the average episode of Mythbusters...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 10:49:11 AM   
Just0Plain0Mike


Posts: 127
Joined: 6/16/2010
Status: offline 		Here's what I don't understand about this vote, does it really make a difference? As far as I know, a state can't make something legal if it's outlawed by Federal law. A state can have stricter laws then Federal, but then can't be laxer. So while this law would stop local LEOs from arresting pot dealers, it wouldn't stop the DEA from doing so. Or am I incorrect?

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 11:02:24 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

Here's what I don't understand about this vote, does it really make a difference? As far as I know, a state can't make something legal if it's outlawed by Federal law. A state can have stricter laws then Federal, but then can't be laxer. So while this law would stop local LEOs from arresting pot dealers, it wouldn't stop the DEA from doing so. Or am I incorrect?


I believe you are correct. I think that if a majority of states were to follow colorado it would eventually bring enough pressure on the feds to change the law.

(in reply to Just0Plain0Mike)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 11:03:59 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

Here's what I don't understand about this vote, does it really make a difference? As far as I know, a state can't make something legal if it's outlawed by Federal law. A state can have stricter laws then Federal, but then can't be laxer. So while this law would stop local LEOs from arresting pot dealers, it wouldn't stop the DEA from doing so. Or am I incorrect?

Feds generally don't go after end users, they're interested in the large scale dealers.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 11:04:39 AM   
youngandrew


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		"So far that has not been the case. The "dispensaries" charge more than local "connections for similar quality"

Medical Marijuana laws effectively create a government protected industry with a limit on distributors. This is an artificial price prop and is the reason medical marijuana distributors actually fought against Legalization. Without their protected monopoly, prices will go down further. It was kind of saddening to see so many people who fought for medical turn against their patients interests in the interest of their wallets.


"Here's what I don't understand about this vote, does it really make a difference? As far as I know, a state can't make something legal if it's outlawed by Federal law. A state can have stricter laws then Federal, but then can't be laxer. So while this law would stop local LEOs from arresting pot dealers, it wouldn't stop the DEA from doing so. Or am I incorrect?"

The 10th amendment is supposed to allow State's rights to supersede federal law but this has been weakened greatly in the past 60 years. This is a step in the right direction. DEA could still raid people but with legalization in their state it makes it much more defensible. Also leaves open the possibility of jury nullification in a federal court which would be a huge step to ending the federal prohibition. Also, States have a tendency to follow each other. Medical started with one state, grew to 18 states + dc iirc. Now 3 or 4 states have moved to legalize... It is a domino effect that is gaining momentum and I think we will see the complete end of prohibition in the next decade.

(in reply to Just0Plain0Mike)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 11:04:59 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I seldom smoke it for obvious health reasons but if one distills the thc and mixes it with medical grade dmso it can be applied topically for instant absorbtion into the blood stream.

Well, good luck doing that while you're stoned.
I've known people who got so out of it just testing that they hadn't been stiffed by their connection that making a bong out of a beer tin because they'd run out of rizlas became rocket science. Trying to do serious chemistry in that state could well produce a bigger bang than the average episode of Mythbusters...


If one is impared one ought not to indulge in potentially dangerous behavior.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 11:14:15 AM   
Just0Plain0Mike


Posts: 127
Joined: 6/16/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info. I hadn't considered that.

Daisy is really hoping that PA will finally go the medical marijuana route. She'd easily qualify, and it would make her life considerably easier. Unfortunately it's already been shot down once, so it's unlikely. Then again, we just elected a bunch of democrats, so maybe it'll happen.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 11:17:03 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I seldom smoke it for obvious health reasons but if one distills the thc and mixes it with medical grade dmso it can be applied topically for instant absorbtion into the blood stream.

Well, good luck doing that while you're stoned.
I've known people who got so out of it just testing that they hadn't been stiffed by their connection that making a bong out of a beer tin because they'd run out of rizlas became rocket science. Trying to do serious chemistry in that state could well produce a bigger bang than the average episode of Mythbusters...


If one is impared one ought not to indulge in potentially dangerous behavior.

And if one is so pissed up that one can barely stand up, one shouldn't drive home either.
The more fucked up you get, the less weight "this isn't a very good idea" carries, a lot of the time.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 11:21:42 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I seldom smoke it for obvious health reasons but if one distills the thc and mixes it with medical grade dmso it can be applied topically for instant absorbtion into the blood stream.

Well, good luck doing that while you're stoned.
I've known people who got so out of it just testing that they hadn't been stiffed by their connection that making a bong out of a beer tin because they'd run out of rizlas became rocket science. Trying to do serious chemistry in that state could well produce a bigger bang than the average episode of Mythbusters...


If one is impared one ought not to indulge in potentially dangerous behavior.

And if one is so pissed up that one can barely stand up, one shouldn't drive home either.
The more fucked up you get, the less weight "this isn't a very good idea" carries, a lot of the time.


Isn't that why god invented the taxi?

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Colorado votes to legalize pot... - 11/8/2012 12:11:46 PM   
youngandrew


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		I think the issue here is cannabis affects people differently. It has a very calming, relaxing feeling on me.. but my mind normally is blazing a million miles a second on a ton of thoughts, cannabis helps me focus. It doesn't affect my ability to think negatively, just opens my mind to new patterns of thoughts. I taught myself to program in 5 different computer languages while smoking cannabis and I often solve logic problems faster and more creatively when smoking.

Hell I built a website for a congressional candidate's website including a new payment system that doesn't use paypal or google and goes directly to his bank account while smoking.

I also used to race high speed go-karts in my early teens.. I'd be racing 13 kids going 60 miles an hour blazed as FUCK and would take first almost invariably (until my brother moved up in age class and HE was blazed and it would always be me or him first and second)

Lastly, in high school before 3rd period there would be 15 minutes of announcements - me and a group of friends would always meet up off campus, burn a j and go back to class. My 3rd period was chemistry. I had the highest grade in the class for tests and labs. Always finished quicker and more efficiently than my peers and never had a lab accident.

I understand this is anecdotal but my point is to convey that there is alot of misconception about cannabis and it does have different effects based on factors like: the person's mood, location, experiences, and conditions, the strain of herb (ie sativa vs indica), how it was grown ,etc. Being in a black market with no regulation it is a very caveat emptor environment - someone like me who prefers a sativa strain, grown outdoors, without male plants around because it best provides the effects I use the plant for is left in the dark about what you are really getting 90% of the time. Legalization will help fix this problem because information can be freely traded again and sources to do not need to remain hidden. People with back pains, hyperactivity, trouble sleeping, RLS, glaucoma etc will be able to find the best medication for their condition (indica) while they may find a sativa variety doesn't help as much or may be uncomfortable to them.

Sativa varieties are more commonly known to produce the paranoia feeling many people report.. Also the fact that every 28 seconds or so another person is arrested for holding the same flower they are holding.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 100
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