RE: Saying 'No!'

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Saying 'No!'

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Saying 'No!'

Page: << < prev 4 5 6 7 [8]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/18/2006 8:34:16 PM

BreakMeShakeMe

Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
I just had to post to this. I hate the wartenburg wheel. Hate it, I say! My first experience with it was when I was tied over the back of a chair and blindfolded. No idea what the hell that was. It felt like he was slicing me open with a knife. I thrashed pretty good in those bindings!! Now he likes to hold it up to me with an evil grin and I whimper, "Oh God, not that...."

Makes a note to get up with Owned's Master when she picks on me next time...LOL

(Tossing Owned an apple and a kiss)

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Profile

Post #: 141

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/18/2006 8:38:42 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe
None of you know what you will or will not do till it slaps you in the face... so jump off your high and mighty soap boxes....and just admit.. you THINK they will or won't do things... but you really do not know.

Jessica, I hope you do not mind me taking this quote a little out of context. I think this statement applies to us all. Until we have been placed in the situations, we do not know how we will react, we only think we know. I think it is a matter of can you actually "walk the walk" (whatever that walk happens to be).

Recently my Lord, Alandra and I have gone through a painful experience that has shown we can walk the walk. My Lord has shown that he will stand by his code, "Do my will, harm none" even when it is difficult to do and I have shown that while I will not say "No, I will not do it" to whatever he tells me to do, I will stand up and protect my boundaries from him. Throughout it all, I didn’t say no, but I was resolute in giving him the information on how I thought I was being harmed. It is an experience though painful and difficult, taught us much about ourselves and brought us closer as a family. Things are not always perfect but we are committed to walking the walk even in the tough times.

Knight's kyra

Kyra,

I am glad things worked when put to the test. I sat here relating to your post with compassion. Isn't it wonderful to know, without a doubt, that you are heard? To know, without a doubt, that your concerns are understood? To know, without a doubt that you are trusted, so that when you bring such a concern to the table, it is taken seriously because it is understood that you would not frivolously express something so passionately, unless it was that critical to you?

It strengthens the bond, and brings you closer, doesn't it? It deepens trust, even when you thought trust was already complete. I have been in such a situation, where I was not refusing an order, but had serious concerns. Had he insisted, I would have done it, and he knew that. But the way he handled it did not compromise his authority in the least, yet ensured my peace of mind that I am safe with him.

As for Jessica's statement of "one never knows," I have to agree. There are things I have been faced with, with Master, that I never ever thought I could do, and never thought I would do. Yet when faced with it - do or refuse - I succumbed, and did, excrutiating as it was. The result to our relationship was phenominal.

Thanks, both of you, for your posts.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Profile

Post #: 142

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/18/2006 8:39:50 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
I just had to post to this. I hate the wartenburg wheel. Hate it, I say! My first experience with it was when I was tied over the back of a chair and blindfolded. No idea what the hell that was. It felt like he was slicing me open with a knife. I thrashed pretty good in those bindings!! Now he likes to hold it up to me with an evil grin and I whimper, "Oh God, not that...."

Makes a note to get up with Owned's Master when she picks on me next time...LOL

(Tossing Owned an apple and a kiss)

HA!!! Throws it back, with a wartenburg wheel inside...

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)

Profile

Post #: 143

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/18/2006 9:21:39 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

"No", is just one of those words that has the potential to cause trouble in any relationship. There are better options, in my opinion.

It's not unlike the difference between the phrases, "Are you sure you have all the information you need to make the best decision?", and "What, did you have you head up your ass when you thought that one up?"

I've found that the sad, silent, stare into space, is on of the most effective forms of no.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Profile

Post #: 144

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/18/2006 9:29:31 PM

Sirandlittle1

Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I had one finally comment that many seem to forget and really hasn't been stated very clearly. It is a much a responsibility of the My slave kyra and alandra not to "Willfully Disobedy" as it is for me not to give Stupid orders that would require them to say "No". It is a joint responsiblity to keep a relationship going.

Im not for saying NO. I am the queen of the 'yes but.....' however. This has lessened over time between us, my ability to just do as im told, not question is something ive developed. His ability to give non stupid orders has also developed. We learn, we grow.

There are times, when i feel that i have not willfully disobeyed. Like last night. Was supposed to call to say i was finished work, and was on my way home. But as i left the building, with mobile in hand to ring him, a colleague offered me a lift to my door. I jumped at the chance and hopped in. I was home in 10 mins, instead of 30 to him.
I was in trouble for not completing the task of phoning first. ??? its at times like these, my submissive heart sinks a little. Not wilfully disobedient, just didnt complete the task. So i tried the 'yes, but.....' and was reminded that i had a task, i had not completed the task. and not only had i let him down, i was now argueing with him. I shut up, apologised, and await punishment.
Sometimes, being obedient, doesnt happen. I have agreed to be so, and have displeased him that i havent been. I accept that. I dont like it though. But D/s is not a black and white thing i find. Just wish i didnt see so much grey sometimes.

little1

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Profile

Post #: 145

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/19/2006 5:51:42 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

little1, I appreciated your post because it shows the way life gets involved and there is often no way to answer for every single darn event that comes into play! Poor baby…that kinda stuff happens to me occasionally (this thread is sort of an example of trying for a simple thread and feeling I’ve pulled apart a whole sweater. Perhaps that is the basis for another try at a different topic: ‘Obedience: simply!’ Sometimes, rather than seeing the simple black & white of a command, I put wayyyyyyyyy more thought into simply doing as requested. Yanno?)

Of course you didn’t say ‘No’ in the story you related, but other factors were involved. Not completing a task is different that an out and out refusal of the kind I keep TRYING to talk about. I appreciated your post because discussing the 'grey' helps me to reiterate it is NOT those times I’m getting at.

I’m not sure why people have a hard time with this…other than it is sooo obvious I don’t know how to communicate I wanted a discussion. I can’t understand why, after eight pages of posts there are still those that pop up saying…"a ‘No’ is necessary sometimes." <sigh>

Again…(and please note, little1, this is NOT directed at you, I’m aware you were making a different point, but along the same lines)…just to reiterate; this thread was meant to discuss out and out refusals, especially rude ones, to commands. I understand communication IS key…but I contend when a ‘No’ (of this type) is voiced…the submissive has effectively taken back her power and the domination is gone. I am still curious how that works for others; so far, when talking about what I’m talking about…most seem to agree. Though not all; some apparently can continue their relationship…but I wonder; IS it still a D/s relationship at that point?

Course, then there is KoM's reply:

quote:

...I don't get the need to label and group this type of Submissive... this type of Dominant... like we have boxes we all have to fit into. The bottom line there is some you going to see as Dominant or Submissive and their is going to be others you don't see as Dominant or submissive. You can stand on the tallest mountain and yell your a Dominant or a Submissive. But, in my eyes if I don't see you as one... you are not to me and only to me. Others may agree or disagree with my opinion of you but that doesn't change or make any opinion less or more valid. Just Different! ...

While he's given perhaps the best reply yet...it kinda closes the door on discussion; and it's discussion that I was after. I like the stuff that makes ya think... These threads are kinda like holding a button in yer mouth; ya roll it around and bite on it a bit...eventually you spit it out, but there was a whole lot of 'attention' paid to it for awhile.

Thank you all for your posts,
beverly

(in reply to Sirandlittle1)

Profile

Post #: 146

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/19/2006 6:05:37 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
"No", is just one of those words that has the potential to cause trouble in any relationship. There are better options, in my opinion.

It's not unlike the difference between the phrases, "Are you sure you have all the information you need to make the best decision?", and "What, did you have you head up your ass when you thought that one up?"

That makes a lot of sense and highlights the reason some people are saying "of course you can say no", and others are saying "hell no you can't talk to me that way!"

quote:

I've found that the sad, silent, stare into space, is on of the most effective forms of no.

At the risk of encouraging bad/passive resistance from a future boy, am going to say that this approach would pretty much work on my conscience and have me asking what the problem is empathetically. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to caitlyn)

Profile

Post #: 147

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/19/2006 8:16:07 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I've found that the sad, silent, stare into space, is on of the most effective forms of no.

At the risk of encouraging bad/passive resistance from a future boy, am going to say that this approach would pretty much work on my conscience and have me asking what the problem is empathetically. M

See now, my thought was that this kind of behviour looked manipulative, and far less honest than a simple, respectful no. I'm pretty sure I'd consider it passive-resistant. I've certianly been disciplined for attempting to using a pout or an expression to sway a dom.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Profile

Post #: 148

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/19/2006 8:23:55 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I've found that the sad, silent, stare into space, is on of the most effective forms of no.

At the risk of encouraging bad/passive resistance from a future boy, am going to say that this approach would pretty much work on my conscience and have me asking what the problem is empathetically. M

See now, my thought was that this kind of behviour looked manipulative, and far less honest than a simple, respectful no. I'm pretty sure I'd consider it passive-resistant. I've certianly been disciplined for attempting to using a pout or an expression to sway a dom.

Not only would I not attempt that, but it would never work with my Master. When he wants to know what is on my mind, my lips had best be moving and words expressing my honest and genuine thoughts better be coming out.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 6/19/2006 8:25:44 PM >

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

Profile

Post #: 149

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/19/2006 9:58:17 PM

Taylore

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

I would never come out and just say 'no' to Master. That would end our relationship right there. However, there are times that I just can not get something done right away. In those cases, I let him know that I am struggling with it, and why. Once it has been discussed, he decides how to proceed.

_____________________________

Taylore

(in reply to Bearlee)

Profile

Post #: 150

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/19/2006 11:33:40 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

See now, my thought was that this kind of behviour looked manipulative, and far less honest than a simple, respectful no. I'm pretty sure I'd consider it passive-resistant. I've certianly been disciplined for attempting to using a pout or an expression to sway a dom.

I wouldn't like pouting or tantrums; but if I said Billy (fictitious name) I'm going to wax your legs today (fictitious kink for me), and he gives me a freaked out look like it's going to kill him, I would than ask him to tell me what he is thinking/feeling so I may than decide if indeed the excess anxiety is going to harm him. I wasn't suggesting I would like someone who whines, pouts, etc; what I was saying I'd prefer is a concerned look or verbally saying "may I please ask that you consider these other options?". Simply answering "no" wouldn't work well (unless it was during a scene where he felt harm may come to him). M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

Profile

Post #: 151

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/20/2006 4:04:24 PM

genvieve

Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline

Simply put, i would have to think long and hard before giving my Dominant an outright "No." And it certainly would never be a "Just say no." There would be explanations as to why i would not be completing the order, followed by intense discussions. i just wouldn't do it.

But that's me.

That being said... have i ever done it? Sure. There are times when my Dominant asks me to do something that i'm not able to do. The reality is however, i always end up feeling horrible because of it. Oh, it's not His fault, no. i just tend to want to serve Him completely. Well, the rest of the s-types out there know what i'm talking about.

-genvieve

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)

Profile

Post #: 152

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/20/2006 4:37:09 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

See now, my thought was that this kind of behviour looked manipulative, and far less honest than a simple, respectful no. I'm pretty sure I'd consider it passive-resistant. I've certianly been disciplined for attempting to using a pout or an expression to sway a dom.
I wouldn't like pouting or tantrums; but if I said Billy (fictitious name) I'm going to wax your legs today (fictitious kink for me), and he gives me a freaked out look like it's going to kill him, I would than ask him to tell me what he is thinking/feeling so I may than decide if indeed the excess anxiety is going to harm him.

That makes perfect sense to me. You're talking about an honest expression that crosses a sub's face perhaps before they can express it, and I agree, I'd feel bad about being disciplined for that.

I took what she said to mean she "put on" that silent, sad stare in order to make the dominant reconsider, which I think we both agree is different.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Profile

Post #: 153

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/20/2006 6:00:43 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

Not to hijack the thread but..can I state just how much I love the Whartenberg wheel? And being a healthcare professional, I have access to other fun toys too...

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

Profile

Post #: 154

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/20/2006 6:05:07 PM

BreakMeShakeMe

Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline

LOL CreativeDominant..... Owned is gonna love your post... as she freaks out...lmao

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Profile

Post #: 155

RE: Saying 'No!' - 6/20/2006 6:16:55 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Not to hijack the thread but..can I state just how much I love the Whartenberg wheel? And being a healthcare professional, I have access to other fun toys too...