quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Mostly there are expectations and priorities set and I do my best to meet them all.  He asks me questions all the time, and I have no problem saying no, I don't want that.  I just won't say it to a direct order. 

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My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to kyraofMists)

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ORIGINAL: Bearlee

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Being able to say no to anyone and everyone means someone has a well developed sense of self esteem and will be able to protect themselves. Many women have trouble saying no, and on some levels this makes them less safe than if they are able to say no and mean it without backing down. I think it that there maybe times when we need to say no, even to our dominants. I think that people with little experience or no experience may hesitate to say no when they need to if they feel that makes them less submissive. If they are in the early stages of a relationship and do not want to displease someone that may not have their best interests at heart they should not feel they are less submissive for using NO to protect themselves.

I think many submissives have trouble saying this word period, and maybe we should say it more than we do.. but that is my opinion and I could be wrong (Ive been thinking about this thread since I first read it...lol) 

You make a very good point…Thank you.
 
I just wish people would read my original post to see WHAT it was I was hoping to discuss.  Gee, some are wondering if I can say ‘no’ to a simple question!    
 
Of course people must be able to say ‘No’… my question was NOT about the necessity to discuss struggles and concerns with one’s dominant but rather about REFUSING a ‘direct order’.  (must I state I am assuming this ‘direct order’ is by one’s OWN Dominant, to whom one has submitted control…and that said ‘direct order’ has nothing to do with murder, child molestation or any other suggestion a person in their right mind would say NO to?)

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ORIGINAL: Bearlee


 
And please people…this thread IS about communication!  Of course if one must say ‘no’, one will say no…but the whole point of this conversation was about HOW one says ‘No’.  I had quoted what I thought was a very flip, sarcastic (now she says she was kidding) submissive and…knowing that IS how some ‘play the game’, I was curious to hear how it was handled with folks more seriously into D/s

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ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Exactly, Sir… The kind of ‘No’ I was referring to was an out and out refusal to do something as told.  And yes, it also had nothing to do with some life-threatening situation or moral dilemma.
 
I guess the reason I posed the whole question in the first place, is because I find it interesting that some folks play at D/s.  Sorta like the submissive you mentioned somewhere else; the one you called a ‘bedroom submissive’?  In my mind a D/s relationship isn’t just play or ‘when it’s convenient’.  Of course, for some it is. 
 
I wanted some dialogue about it.   Thank you all

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... I only care what my dom thinks...

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ORIGINAL: Bearlee


I guess the reason I posed the whole question in the first place, is because I find it interesting that some folks play at D/s.  Sorta like the submissive you mentioned somewhere else; the one you called a ‘bedroom submissive’?  In my mind a D/s relationship isn’t just play or ‘when it’s convenient’.  Of course, for some it is. 
 
I wanted some dialogue about it.   Thank you all

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: Bearlee
I guess the reason I posed the whole question in the first place, is because I find it interesting that some folks play at D/s.  Sorta like the submissive you mentioned somewhere else; the one you called a ‘bedroom submissive’?  In my mind a D/s relationship isn’t just play or ‘when it’s convenient’.  Of course, for some it is. 
 
I wanted some dialogue about it.   Thank you all

Actually, I have my own opinions about saying no in D/s or M/s relationships, and for the most part I believe it depends on circumstance and the structure of that relationship.  I personally do not say No to my Master, unless we're goofing around, and even then I'm on shaky ground!  If I have a concern, I tell him I have a concern.

However, I take issue with this thread.  If you simply wanted dialogue about the idea of saying no, I would think you would have created an OP that said, "What do you feel about submissives saying "No" in a D/s dynamic?" or something of the sort.  To use the post of another person from another thread as the basis for this thread, is just plain tacky, in my book.

You started out, "While MOST replied with the helpfulness I'd expect to see on CollarMe, one person posted:" and then put her post up. Your initial post to this thread begins with insulting a fellow forum member.  As if that were not enough, your next question was to ask everyone what we thought of that particular quote from that particular submissive:  "I am curious what you think of the above quote." (referring to the quote you re-posted, in which she claimed she would say no).

This is a cheap shot if I ever saw one, particularly since it was you who offered to drop the subject in the other thread.  You are now saying you began this thread because you wanted dialogue about some folks who "play at D/s."  More shots across the bow.

So, you want my thoughts?  This thread totally lacks decorum, class, and decent netiquette.  But I suppose that's just how some are.  Maybe we should start a thread on it...

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A)  Nearly every single submissive when they first start out is completely impatient.  in two years they either learn patience or they don't call themselves a submissive anymore.

B)  Nearly every single submissive when they first start out is insecure about who they are in the scene and overthinks EVERYTHING.  In two years they either have come to a place of security or they don't.

The answer to your question?  Likely both- you are insecure and have problems which cause you to constantly need external reinforcement, AND you likely pick doms that are harsh and not able to handle your special needs.

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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
In my relationship, refusing to do what he instructs me to do, removes my consent and his ownership of me. 

If there is something that I don't think I can do, then I talk to him about it.  In the end though, if he says to do it and I refuse, then the M/s relationship is over.
kyra

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Exactly, Sir… The kind of ‘No’ I was referring to was an out and out refusal to do something as told.  And yes, it also had nothing to do with some life-threatening situation or moral dilemma.
 
I guess the reason I posed the whole question in the first place, is because I find it interesting that some folks play at D/s.  Sorta like the submissive you mentioned somewhere else; the one you called a ‘bedroom submissive’?  In my mind a D/s relationship isn’t just play or ‘when it’s convenient’.  Of course, for some it is. 
 
I wanted some dialogue about it.   Thank you all

Is this the On True Way thing? Like because someone doesnt do D/s the way someone else thinks they should they are a bedroom submissive and their dom is nothing "but a service top"? I respectfully disagree. No one has a right to state what others are unless they describe themselves as a "bedroom submissive" or a "service top". If they see themselves as involved in 24-7 even though their sub has said no in a disobedient way, well they are in a power exchange.. maybe not the one you would want or respect, but that does not change what they feel they have.

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Some people would think me a slave type, others a bedroom submissive... I only care what my dom thinks... because he is the only one domming me. No one else matters. I think it is really something when people think they are more submissive than someone else because their dynamic is different. I am not saying you meant that Bearlee, but it comes off a little like that.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Since you noted my post and my words, I will take it as a response to my words...

I was specifically addressing the word NO between two people in a dynamic. I will reiterate... you do not decide how or when or the whatfors of when D/s takes place between people. To label someone a bedroom role player because they have said no to their dominant really is judgmental, and I do not agree with it. My opinion is as valid as yours.

At the bottom of your post you highlighted part of my post. I stand by it... I could give a shit if you think I am a submissive of any stripe, I only care what my dom thinks, and yes I am starting a new dynamic and our definitiions agree... I prefer to give away much of my power in all my interactions with my dominant, it is what I enjoy and feel fullfilled by,  but if he gives me permission to tell him NO and I do once in a while, does this make us any less dominant or submissive? Probably to your eyes, but like I said earlier in this post, your opinion matters not to me.