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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

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ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe
When I was in my two former M/s relationships... for years mind you.. and did not end because I said no to them either. I never gave up my right to say no.

Hell, as I was saying to you earlier, hun, the day I give up my right to say No is the day they bury me. I'm a human being, not a robot. And guess what...I'm still submissive, no matter what anyone else wants to believe. Never had a partner who doubted that for a second.

I understand exactly where you are coming from...I never signed up to be a Stepford Wife...and I never will.

Where the problem comes in is, as suggested earlier in my post and in several others' posts here, is sometimes the situation or reasoning behind the no and sometimes, as bearlee suggested in her original post, the way it is delivered.

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As I stated earlier, if she has a problem with something that I have told her to do, I would expect her to tell me so and ask to discuss it.  Just saying no without a valid reason or to be difficult or to 'test' me will be ignored. 

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My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

It may take not effort to submit to the things you want…but because it takes no effort doesn't equate that it is not submission.

Traveling a path of submission is very much like travel a road up and down hills.  On the down side of the Hill the submissive is taking actions that are enjoyable and increase momentum in the relationship for themselves.  As the submissive starts up a hill in the face of challenges, this momentum can do much to get the submissive up and over the hill.  The very achievement of climbing the hill can result in an increase momentum on the other side to the next challenge that is in the submissive's future.  Too often submissives hit these hills (challenges) without enough momentum and they stall on the hill.  Stalling on the hill (challenges) is when things really get difficult and become very difficult for a relationship if they keep trying to force the direction straight up the hill.  These are the moments when relationship bonds closer or break apart.   It's the moment that both make the decision to be committed towards staying together and succeeding together or separating and failing to get over the hill.

To submissives....NEVER let a Dominant tell you that submission is only when it's hard.  You need momentum…if you don't the Relationship will fail.

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ORIGINAL: Bearlee
Ya know, an awful lot of folks are writing about how they DO say ‘No’… or how they are being encouraged to say ‘No’ ...  but the whole gist of this conversation was the out and out REFUSAL, no questions asked, kinda ‘No’. 

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It happens.  Some couples apparently include that behavior in their every-day lives; perhaps like ‘Who’s on top?’  ...

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Amayos pointed out (in yet another outstanding post) that there is no ‘right or wrong’ to the D/s relationship ... 

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I would never sign over my house to somebody, nor ownership of my checkbook.

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Still, I am fully aware that the very first time I say ‘No’ (just like that) to a Dominant…it will be over (even if it is only in MY mind).  For me…that IS the nature of the D/s relationship.

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  No, won’t hand over my checkbook
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  No, won’t give you my house
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  No, won’t expect you to support me, nor I you
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  No, won’t move to New York City

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While MOST replied with the helpfulness I’d expect to find here on CollarMe, one person posted: 

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I just tell him... no can do... sorry.. got something else instead... if he gets pist.. he gets pist.. and then I tell him.. if it can be done.. you go do it..

Edited to add... it's all in how it' s said. And him knowing reality sometimes stops things from being done. And yes ...while dealing in real life.. reality still steps in and shows it's face too...

IMHO…D/s and M/s mean a great deal; it is not about roll-play for me.  Assuming that IS the case here (and I certainly got that it was with the submissive who originally posted)…I am curious what you all think about the one response (above). 

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ORIGINAL: Bearlee

bandit… you CAN see I will say ‘no’ too, can’t you?  I think though, that those ‘No’s’ will come during the ‘negotiation’ phase of a relationship:

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  No, won’t hand over my checkbook
  
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  No, won’t give you my house
  
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  No, won’t expect you to support me, nor I you
  
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  No, won’t move to New York City

Past that sort of thing, I imagine there will still be ‘No’s’ that come up, huh?  And, like so many pointed out, HOW I handle it will be something other then just ‘No’.  Discussion; LOTS of discussion…and perhaps even begging and pleading.   LOL
 
The funny thing is, when I’m playing especially hard (generally this involves a single-tail and bloody welts), I’m often crying and saying “No, no, no, no, nooooooooooooooooo”   LMAO  Lucky for me I am quite close with the Dominants I would play with like this…(some of them insist I have no safe word, even) and they happily ignore me. Of course, I am NOT really saying ‘no’…I’m off in la-la land somewhere, quite enjoying the beating I’m getting at the hands of my sadistic friend.  Ah yes, He knows me well…and CAN safely ignore these ‘No’s’.  Should I ever get into trouble…likely He would quit before I’d beg to stop.
 
I wonder if this is why saying ‘No’ is such a big deal to me?  I don’t put myself in situations where I am likely to be doing something with someone I don’t know or trust yet.  Does that make sense? 
 
OMG   I remember a couple years ago, at Thunder (huge annual BDSM convention in Denver, CO) playing with a Dominant pal of mine.  He had a tazer-thingy; a stun-gun?  He made it go off near my ear and I about jumped a mile and immediately started sweating profusely.  I HATE electricity!  I wonder today, if he didn’t have two of the things, cuz I swear the damn thing was quite loud and I smelled the damn thing in the air.  Still…he put one on my leg and it didn’t knock me down or anything.  But…when he came up very close to me and whispered “bear, stick out your tongue” I about died!!!   Lordy!  I sooooooooo did not want to do that!  Can you imagine???   Gawd!!!  It took me forever…I kept saying… “Sirrrrrrrrr, please!”  I wiggled and squirmed…pleading with him not to do such a thing.  "Sir, I can't...PLEASE!"
 
He just quietly repeated himself … “bearlee, stick out your tongue”   OMG…I couldn’t!!!   He stood quite close to me….just waiting.  I cried and cried!  I think it took something like ten or fifteen minutes (or was it the entire night?)…but the third time he told me to do so, I finally summoned the courage to do as he told me.  I DID actually stick out my tongue; the tip…firmly clenched between my teeth.  (I wonder if I thought I could hold the electricity just there…only on the tip of my tongue?)  My face was wet with tears, I was shaking uncontrollably and sweating like a dog…………………but I trusted Him.  I stuck out my tongue. 
 
And he kissed me and said ‘Good girl’.    That was it. 
 
So, you see…I’m not big on playing with people ya don’t know and know well.  Trust is a HUGE thing.  So is saying ‘No’…in my book, anyway. 
 
<smiles>  Looking back on it, THAT incident was one of my all-time favorites; AND it helped define what submission means to me, too.

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ORIGINAL: ADomDoc

I state it clearly in my profile that I don't mind logical disagreements ... and I do accept "no" for an answer at times.  But ... if it's a matter of consequence, a "no" just might end the relationship.  One previous slave disagreed that she deserved a punishment for breaking a rule & refused a simple OTK (which she normally loved in play anyway) - so that ended our Dom/slave relationship then & there.  she still claims to this day (we remain friends) that she was not guilty ...

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Since you noted my post and my words, I will take it as a response to my words...

I was specifically addressing the word NO between two people in a dynamic. I will reiterate... you do not decide how or when or the whatfors of when D/s takes place between people. To label someone a bedroom role player because they have said no to their dominant really is judgmental, and I do not agree with it. My opinion is as valid as yours.

At the bottom of your post you highlighted part of my post. I stand by it... I could give a shit if you think I am a submissive of any stripe, I only care what my dom thinks, and yes I am starting a new dynamic and our definitiions agree... I prefer to give away much of my power in all my interactions with my dominant, it is what I enjoy and feel fullfilled by,  but if he gives me permission to tell him NO and I do once in a while, does this make us any less dominant or submissive? Probably to your eyes, but like I said earlier in this post, your opinion matters not to me.

No, I don’t wanna walk the dog with you
No, I don’t care for strawberry ice cream
No, I don’t care to go to the movies just now

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ORIGINAL: ADomDoc

Another matter to consider is the legal perspective: if someone says "No!" then anything that happens after that could be assault & battery or worse. (This would preclude the obvious play where the sub/slaves likes to say No & be "forced" ... but THAT should be well-understood in advance.

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

... Better to just train your slave to not say "no" but to use safewords or to explain things.

His "no" is one of those things that Fox gave to me when he accepted my collar. It wasn't an easy thing to give. Think about it, what is one of the favorite words for two year olds to use? "NO" over and over and over again as they learn to distinguish themselves from others and assert their own will. Being a slave is giving up some of you will and giving up "no" can be a powerful form of that.