RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the Ruling Party

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RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 1:51:40 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

With all this "This is what the Republican's should do" stuff being bandied about the one sure way to destroy the GOP is to go running toward the left.

There's an election in two years and President Obama is already a lame duck.

You have one valid point. The GOP has two extreme choices to make:

1. Stay exactly the same, make no changes, and succumb to demographic obsolescence.
2. Change in every way possible to be identical to the Dems and mimic them on all issues.

Surely between the two, they will figure out something.

Your other point, about the election, shows that you underestimate Obama. He does not make the same mistake twice. He has developed the most powerful system ever for contacting and coordinating his forces, and used ti for fundraising and GOTV. He used that to win in 2008 and 2012, but didn't use it in 2010. He'll use it in 2014 to try to clobber the GOP in the House and Senate. 2014 will be the most hotly contested off year election ever.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Post #: 21

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 2:21:34 AM

tweakabelle

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The opposition has a role above and beyond that of mere opposition to anything that the Govt of the day may propose.

In a democracy the opposition is the alternative government, the people who aspire to being elected as the government at the next election. While in opposition they have the time to develop alternative policies that are supposed to be better than those of the existing government, to bring forward and train alternative leaders, as well as promoting both the interests of their core constituency and the nation at large. That's an awful lot more than knee-jerk uncompromising opposition.

The strategy of constant negativity, the rigid unyielding refusal to pass any legislation, their attempts to block all legislation and render the job of governing the country impossible that the GOP adopts in your country, and the Right wing opposition adopts in mine are among the main reasons why the Right is not in government in either country.

Behaving as though they are born to rule, and like petulant selfish spoilt brats when they lose government convinces most voters that they are not fit to run the country. The Right will stay in opposition as long as it refuses to listen to the people and refuses to accept that government is a privilege granted by the electorate, not an entitlement.

When they begin to act and sound like people capable of running a country, like people who can be trusted with high office, they will have a chance to regain high office.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/9/2012 2:31:57 AM >

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RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 2:29:32 AM

Aswad

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What others should do now, is exploit the fact that you have an election system that is only stable with two parties. This is the right time to establish a third party, because the Republican party has lost enough ground that a grass roots movement to support a new party may actually work and succeed at ousting the Republican party, in which case they will disappear completely and permanently by virtue of how the election system works.

That might result in "Change"...

IWYW,
— Aswad.

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 23

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 3:01:08 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Name some of the greatest legislative failures in the United States and I will show you compromise

I'll name one of the great successes of this nations government and I will show you compromise.
The US Constitution.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 24

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 3:06:43 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL

The Democrats don't care how you destroy yourselves. You had big losses and if they keep up this panty act that Boehner and McConnell pulled last time, this will be the shortest happy dance you guys have ever had.
And I'll say this ... "The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the Ruling Party" Rap is nonsense. Show us where in the charter of either party that kind of rigidity is part of EITHER party's ideologies or objectives. No, this is an invention. As late as the middle 90s there was uniformly compromise as settlement in matters of conflict. This scorched earth BS is actually rather recent. And I think the kind of statement you headline this with is more representative of parliamentary government than a republic.

The original Opposition Party in the US was a party that opposed the Democrats wanting to expand slavery. And yes, more than one were elected. You see, the Republicans had not really formed up yet. But they very much opposed what is called Bleeding Kansas and allowing Kansas into the union as a slave state.

Nonsense. The first opposition party was the Democratic-Republicans, what became the Democratic party, when John Adams, a Federalist, was elected the second President, Washington never joined any political party.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 25

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 3:23:30 AM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Name some of the greatest legislative failures in the United States and I will show you compromise

I'll name one of the great successes of this nations government and I will show you compromise.
The US Constitution.

That was a compromise of a Confederation of Nation States forming a perpetual Union.

Not exactly the same thing as the Missouri Compromise or the Volstead act or The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution now is it?

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 26

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 3:27:42 AM

Lordandmaster

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How can you call the Republicans an "opposition party" when they're in control of the House?

What you're talking about might make sense in a parliamentary system, but certainly not in ours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

With all this "This is what the Republican's should do" stuff being bandied about the one sure way to destroy the GOP is to go running toward the left.

There's an election in two years and President Obama is already a lame duck.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 27

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 3:43:00 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

With all this "This is what the Republican's should do" stuff being bandied about the one sure way to destroy the GOP is to go running toward the left.

There's an election in two years and President Obama is already a lame duck.

Utter rubbish. The job of any politician is to represent the people and do what is best for the nation. That applies to both left and right.

McConnells obstructionist stance over the last two years, is part of the reason the electorate voted for Obama, it`s also part of the reason your economy is still not doing as well as it could. If they carry on the same way and they can kiss goodbye to 2016 already.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 28

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 4:21:12 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

With all this "This is what the Republican's should do" stuff being bandied about the one sure way to destroy the GOP is to go running toward the left.

There's an election in two years and President Obama is already a lame duck.

Utter rubbish. The job of any politician is to represent the people and do what is best for the nation. That applies to both left and right.

McConnells obstructionist stance over the last two years, is part of the reason the electorate voted for Obama, it`s also part of the reason your economy is still not doing as well as it could. If they carry on the same way and they can kiss goodbye to 2016 already.

Yup. Your analysis is spot on IMHO. While the solution - a shift to the centre - might seem obvious, other factors greatly complicate the situation and make it extremely difficult to see the GOP adopting this solution.

For instance, the comments by Akin and Mourdock on so-called "legitimate rape" are widely seen as being very damaging if not pivotal in the GOP loss. But Akin and Mourdock were being honest in what they said - they spoke their minds, and voiced an opinion which is widely shared in the GOP base. Their obnoxious views are faith-generated, they are held as doctrine, as literally an article of faith and therefore not up for negotiation. Any compromise, any shift to the centre on this issue would be rejected by large sections of the GOP base. So any movement towards a more realistic position in relation to women, gays, and similar social issues risk splitting the GOP.

Reaching out to the Asian, African-Merican and Latino communities is a direct threat to the "taking the country back" perspective, which is precisely about restoring the unquestioned dominance of white males. It is fraught with risks from a GOP perspective. It's difficult to see how the GOP can survive as a relevant viable united political force at things stand.

The Right is trapped in a hole of its own making. It's damned if it reaches an accommodation with the USA of today, and damned if it doesn't. The good news is that this is good news for the USA and the world at large. The last thing the world needs is a resurgent Right in the US. We all know that means one thing and one thing only - more war.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/9/2012 4:26:31 AM >

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RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 4:54:24 AM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL

The Democrats don't care how you destroy yourselves. You had big losses and if they keep up this panty act that Boehner and McConnell pulled last time, this will be the shortest happy dance you guys have ever had.
And I'll say this ... "The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the Ruling Party" Rap is nonsense. Show us where in the charter of either party that kind of rigidity is part of EITHER party's ideologies or objectives. No, this is an invention. As late as the middle 90s there was uniformly compromise as settlement in matters of conflict. This scorched earth BS is actually rather recent. And I think the kind of statement you headline this with is more representative of parliamentary government than a republic.

The original Opposition Party in the US was a party that opposed the Democrats wanting to expand slavery. And yes, more than one were elected. You see, the Republicans had not really formed up yet. But they very much opposed what is called Bleeding Kansas and allowing Kansas into the union as a slave state.

Nonsense. The first opposition party was the Democratic-Republicans, what became the Democratic party, when John Adams, a Federalist, was elected the second President, Washington never joined any political party.

There was a party that named themselves, "The Opposition Party." That is who I am talking about.

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Post #: 30

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 5:04:20 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"loyal opposition "

There`s the problem right there and where the GOP has failed

I knew someone would eventually make this point and it was a con to boot.

You Sir obviously don't understand what the term loyal opposition means.

Who should the GOP be loyal to, the constituents who voted them into office to oppose Democrat policies, or the President?

None of the above: they're mostly loyal to party donors and lobbyists.

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Post #: 31

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 5:12:57 AM

subspaceseven

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The people spoke this week, if the GOP is to deaf to hear them, they will become less and less of a party down the road.

Hell they can't even listen to their own people, and when they do their people lie...aka willard...

Another unnamed senior adviser explained that as returns came in and battleground states went into President Barack Obama's Electoral College column, they felt their paths to potential victory narrowing. CBS reports that the campaign was unprepared for this in part because it had ignored polling that showed the races favoring Obama. Instead, it turned to its own internal "unskewed" polls, which it believed more accurately reflected the situation on the ground. They didn't

As evidence of the Romney campaign's sincere belief that the former Massachusetts governor would emerge victorious on Tuesday night, the Boston Globe reported Thursday that it had planned to fete Romney's election with an eight-minute display of fireworks over Boston Harbor.

"It was not an intense, grand finale-type of display for eight minutes, but it certainly was a fast-paced show to cap off the evening, if it were necessary," Steve Pelkey, the CEO of Atlas Professional Fireworks Displays, told the Globe.

Romney also told reporters on his campaign plane earlier this week that while had had written a victory speech, he hadn't prepared concession remarks.

So if their game plan is to oppose, then by all means keep watching Faux News and just keep hiring those "yes men and women" to tell you you are doing great, the hell with facts.

< Message edited by subspaceseven -- 11/9/2012 5:14:40 AM >

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 32

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 5:24:43 AM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flyhumbleguy

I'd correct by saying that their job is not only to oppose the ruling party but to position themselves as advantageously as possible for success in the next election...a balance must be struck. That is why there are so many post-election autopsies being done at this moment.

Is it your position that the u.s. is a government of the party, by the party and for the party?
If so then get the fuck out of my country.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/9/2012 5:27:08 AM >

(in reply to flyhumbleguy)

Post #: 33

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 5:33:03 AM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Name some of the greatest legislative failures in the United States and I will show you compromise

I'll name one of the great successes of this nations government and I will show you compromise.
The US Constitution.

Well said.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 34

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 5:43:02 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

That was a compromise of a Confederation of Nation States forming a perpetual Union.

Confederation of nation states???Where the fuck did you go to school????
The articles of confederation was the controling document for the colonies in rebellion to the authority of the king and parliment.
Nation states my ass.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/9/2012 5:45:35 AM >

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 35

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 6:01:31 AM

FrostedFlake

Posts: 3084
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From: Centralia, Washington
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

With all this "This is what the Republican's should do" stuff being bandied about the one sure way to destroy the GOP is to go running toward the left.

There's an election in two years and President Obama is already a lame duck.

You do realize that politics is not a football game... right? That there is something at stake a bit more interesting than a 'W' or 'L' in a box on the second to last page of the newspaper? That the essence of Democracy is not competition for resources, but co-operation in building a better future? That the purpose of political affiliation, mutual strength, is defeated when one attempts to cut the other off at the knees?

I'm asking only because you make it much less than obvious.

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 11/9/2012 6:03:26 AM >

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Post #: 36

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 6:12:03 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

McConnells obstructionist stance over the last two years, is part of the reason the electorate voted for Obama, it`s also part of the reason your economy is still not doing as well as it could. If they carry on the same way and they can kiss goodbye to 2016 already.

Nope. Obama learned from 2010. If the government is still deadlocked in 2014, expect his political machine to GOTV in 2014 just like it did in 2012 and force pout GOP Congresspeople. If I was a GOP Congressman right now, I'd be very willing to compromise, with that threat over my head.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 37

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 6:26:52 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Name some of the greatest legislative failures in the United States and I will show you compromise

Volstead act. The 'jobs' bills passed by the teabaggers in the house and the senates wipin their ass with them. The Issa hearings, the impeachment of Clinton.....oh I could go on and on, show me the compromise, Jerry.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/9/2012 6:27:48 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 8:31:34 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

With all this "This is what the Republican's should do" stuff being bandied about the one sure way to destroy the GOP is to go running toward the left.

There's an election in two years and President Obama is already a lame duck.

'Evolved': Hannity, Boehner say GOP should tackle immigration reform

Leadership trumps lame.....

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Post #: 39

RE: The Duty of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE the R... - 11/9/2012 8:38:19 AM

FMRFGOPGAL

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Now. . . what I think that the OP is referring to is a British idea from about the same time period. In parliament, the loyal opposition opposes the current politics of the ruling government, but this DOES NOT CONSTITUTE TREASON! (In the British sense they are still loyal to HRM.)

Welcome to the United States Of America hun. I pointed that out several posts back. My point is that regardless of abuses behind the scenes (Even then "opposition" was not the chartered purpose of the party). What politicians do while flying in the face of their own charter, does not redefine their charter.
And while I think it's very 'colorful' you attempt to work in the extremist allegation of "treason", I really think it falls pretty far short of that. POOR GOVERNANCE is more like it.
So how come the OP needs stuff articulated FOR him?
My point would be that using parliamentary terminology or practice to a republic is completely inappropriate. Though, why tell you? Someone with your 'extensive' knowledge of the roots of the parties already knows that.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 40

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