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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:03:19 PM   
JanahX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Kinda like my sister who had an abortion then voted for the Romney Ryan ticket?


Oh no ....

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The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:06:23 PM   
lovethyself


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

If we have to dispense pharmaceuticals to them, I'm pushing for Thorazine.


Not in Colorado and Washington after the election. We have better alternatives.

With that out of the way, I'm firmly on the fence on this one. It IS tough to keep from snarking when someone posts something like "I've been a Master for fifteen years and I want a slut to obey my every command. No limits here! And no wearing panties EVER!!" or "My Master asked me to find a third for us. She must be between the ages of 25 and 28, have a perfect body and pull down $100K a year, which she will turn over to Master. I've been looking for four days and haven't found anyone yet. Is it always this hard?"

That said, I've felt like the welcoming attitude's taken a downward slide over the past couple of weeks or so. I'm sorry to see that. I'd like to see people hang around.


Not all of us newbies are so delicate that we will run away just because someone said something that we didn't like. I, for one, plan on being here for as long as I'm allowed. Just try to get rid of me.

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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:08:51 PM   
DomMeinCT


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FR

I don't predicate my posts on what I think will be approved or cheered on by any other members here.

If someone shows up with their cock hanging out, I'm thrilled when the response is to tell them to put on their pants. So many stupid posts are responded to with versions of "PULL UP YOUR PANTS", and I don't consider most of them mean at all. There is almost always some excellent instruction interspersed with hilarious comments.

If you're on message boards elsewhere in this world, this place would fall into the "lively" category and not "shark-infested".



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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:08:54 PM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

And what about the "sock" thread that she created - and people reacted exactly the same as they did when she was posting under Chatterbox.

But I have to give ol Chatter some kudos - she stuck it out. Note to Chatter = Chatter you have to admit - you have chilled out quite a bit since then and youre not nearly as annoying as you were when you first came on.



Hee hee, yah i know. Its a wonder IM still here I was quite a stinker.....


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:11:17 PM   
JanahX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


I think they gave up sending me 'special' letters cuz I ignore them anyway.


LOLOL!!! Thats awesome !!

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The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:19:48 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Anyone want to chime in?


Yeah.

I make an effort not to come down on newbies unless they pick a fight with me, or absolutely trash someone that hasn't come down on them. I also try not to get too rough with the regulars, unless they're in the habit of playing rough or have picked a fight. That's cause I would like to keep a certain tone on the boards, and it won't happen through mod efforts, but rather through a community effort. Since I returned from my previous hiatus, I note the tone is substantially worse than when I started out here, which has been part of the ongoing evaluation of whether this place is worth what I put into it.

RemoteUser used the phrase «any hope of mutual understanding», which is what I've tried to fix sometimes, and it tends to get drowned out by snark and hostility, so I no longer bother to build bridges most of the time. One of the things I've learned over the years is that it is important to have education. It's also important to educate. Mutual understanding is where that starts, and building bridges is how one gets to mutual understanding. Instead, people choose to piss in the waterhole, choose to have conflict, and choose to support stupidity and ignorance around the world. That is hardly a surprise, and hardly confined to CM, but it gets my hackles up when people do it in a community I would like to see healthy and flourishing.

The idiot of today can be the voice of reason tomorrow. If people don't have anything sensible to say, it's cause they haven't picked up anything useful yet. Setting them on the path to picking up something useful tends to cause them to come back with something sensible and interesting to share. But like all of this, it takes some effort. And, for the effort to make a difference, enough people in a community must do it. Or else the community goes down the drain and eventually fades away, or becomes a very stagnant clique. At the very least, one ends up with meltdowns like the Arpig incident (he was the least responsible party in that meltdown; ponder that), and the community fractures (Fetlife, anyone?).

Assholes like you (yes, you, Jahna, and you hopefully realize I'm at least somewhat affectionate in my use of that term), or those that are even worse, spewing shit all over the place, that is an infectious thing. It leads to others becoming less constructive, less willing to be part of making this place all it can be, less willing to make the effort to be decent human beings online. It's already been infectious enough for me not to care enough to make a serious effort myself. Many people I enjoyed having on the boards have left because of mod squabbles that really come down to the toxic atmosphere itself, without which the mods wouldn't have been forced to act in the manner those people disagreed with. I've pondered leaving myself, and the changes in the atmosphere here are among the weightiest factors.

I've considered having a TOS-compliant snarkfest week to illustrate, but I'm fairly confident I would lose the respect of at least half those posters I enjoy talking to around here if I were to do so, and it would probably be detrimental to the boards in the short and long term (in particular because it's unlikely anyone would actually take a hint and start shouldering their share anyway).

As you say, I'm not your mother, your father, your partner or whatever.

I'm your fellow CollarMe citizen, and I'm concerned by your littering.

Yeah, I want to chime in, but out of respect for the TOS, I won't.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


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"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:24:36 PM   
RemoteUser


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*checks through the recent posts again*

And, the status quo is established, without too much devotion left to the process.

Consensus through selection should be added to my list of conversational blocks. It is another interesting manifestation of group mentality though.

Edited To Add: Written before Aswad's post.

< Message edited by RemoteUser -- 11/10/2012 8:25:37 PM >


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:29:32 PM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

I've considered having a TOS-compliant snarkfest week to illustrate, but I'm fairly confident I would lose the respect of at least half those posters I enjoy talking to around here if I were to do so, and it would probably be detrimental to the boards in the short and long term (in particular because it's unlikely anyone would actually take a hint and start shouldering their share anyway).

As you say, I'm not your mother, your father, your partner or whatever.

I'm your fellow CollarMe citizen, and I'm concerned by your littering.

Yeah, I want to chime in, but out of respect for the TOS, I won't.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


I'm in if you are. Examples may not be appreciated for what they are, but that should not deter its profundity.



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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:32:05 PM   
JanahX


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I for one Aswad would hate to see you leave here - I enjoy your posts and actually really do learn a lot from them.
I also miss certain users here that are gone due to whatever - but Im also happy for the new people that have stuck around.

These are the types of theads I enjoy - cause theyre constructive and instead of letting things get toxic, we can all lay it out on the table to keep the in-house fighting down.

The thread that was removed earlier was NOT constructive - it was a bunch of squabbling and trolling and those are the types of threads that tend to bug the shit out of me. Not very fun.

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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:38:05 PM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

The thread that was removed earlier was NOT constructive - it was a bunch of squabbling and trolling and those are the types of threads that tend to bug the shit out of me. Not very fun.


I would agree with this. The spirit of your initial post, however, addressed the scene at large; and while it's easy to come to the conclusion that the OP of the other thread was obnoxious, it's also clear there were three types of reactions.

Addressing the OP in a way that created thought about what was happening.

Address the OP in a way that judged what was happening.

Eat popcorn.

Which reaction do you feel was the most prevalent?


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:42:19 PM   
FrostedFlake


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Two thoughts.
1/ I enjoy the way John makes me look so much better that I really am.

2/ I am a little confused by the assertion that, because the deserving get what they came for, there is ipso facto a demonstrated conspiracy to deliver the goods. To my experience, ordering a pizza requires a co-conspirator. Laughing at a fool, doesn't. I am willing to listen to an attempted explanation, but I am not willing to invent one.

Far from being embarrassed by the accusation, I'll wear it.

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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:43:31 PM   
JanahX


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quote:

Which reaction do you feel was the most prevalent?


There were also a few different conversations going on in that thread as well - and with that said, what I saw was people being helpful, people who started to catch on that he was a troll, people who were NOT catching on that he was a troll, and the OP trolling and most likely laughing at everyone -which is the part that really bothers me.

But I think there were a lot of popcorn eaters.

The one good thing that did stem from that fiasco - was that it was brought to my attention that some users here think that there is a pack mentality going on here - and I thought that would be a great discussion - and so far it HAS been.

< Message edited by JanahX -- 11/10/2012 8:45:13 PM >


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The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:49:45 PM   
littlewonder


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The people who seem to think we all are just being mean, poopie heads are usually the ones who are the newer of the bunch here or are the ones who are extremely sensitive to everything it seems.

The ones who are the newer ones, do not know yet how these forums operate. They have not seen the previous posts of the one being ripped. They have not followed the forums for as long as others and usually they are the ones who have not really been on other internet forums or had to deal with such people in their lives or very, very few.

The ones who are extremely sensitive will find anything at all to be offensive even when it's not. They just can't handle strong emotions here or in their real lives whatsoever. They are ones who will always be this way until life kicks them in the ass long enough for them to finally say "fuck it".

This is why I think there should be some kind of warning before people enter the forums; enter at your own risk, or there should be a separate forum for them so that no one will ever hurt their feelings. If they still continue to follow through though then they get whatever is offered here.

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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:51:27 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

As I mentioned to Michael, Janah, it's nothing new and nothing that's going to go away. People have gravitated to threads in groups and picked apart newbies - not every time, but it happens.

If a newbie says something stupid, and elevates that stupidity when multiple sources challenge an opinion, the sources increase their own banter until the thread is saturated with a mockery that washes out any hope of mutual understanding. This could be because the newbie is a serious idiot, or it could be that the people who go out of their way to antagonize are on a roll. I won't pick sides, but I would agree with the observation that some newbies are bantered (and criticized) harder than others. This isn't just the newbie and it isn't just the clique, fuckuppery rarely gets owned by one sole side in conversation held in any format.

Side note: you don't want people to tell you that your behaviour is wrong, don't do it to other people. In your case specifically that is a pile of rocks in a glass house, and you know it.

One last note I would make: pick any thread you find where the majority disagrees with the OP and snark is prevalent. Stick to the first 12 posts past the OP (assuming it gets that far) and count by gender. It's not always going to be women, but yes, the majority of the time, it is. Statistically, Michael is correct. I won't apply rationale to mathematics, they aren't the same thing.


THIS

I have been on this site over 8 years, and anyone that states it does not happen is in DENIAL.

There are people that start threads that are not worth starting and silly, and it's hard NOT to want to be snarky, and I know that I have been a bit snarky on occasion, but I am not part of the snark group, nor would I ever want to be a part of a snark group.

There have always been cliques around here, and there always will be cliques.
There are many people that are mean, nasty and brutal to others, especially people that are "new" around here.
Now, if you are a card carrying member of the "cool kids" crowd you can pretty much get away with saying anything on here.
IF you dare say something AGAINST someone in the "cool kids" clique, you bet grannies behind a lot of people are going to jump on your ass.


There is a psychological phenomena called "group think", and you can bet the farm, there is a lot of "group think"/pack herd mentality around these parts.
I have been on the internet since 1995/and it happens just about everywhere.
It happens on almost all message boards and in chat rooms also.
It's part of life on the world wide web.
It's not limited to CollarMe, and this place is no better or worse than most others.

As always, to each their own.

I am going to love this thread.

Especially, the many who will state that they are not a part of the clique, and the ones that state that it doesn't happen here.

This thread will go 25 pages, minimum.
Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 11/10/2012 8:59:22 PM >


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:51:52 PM   
tazzygirl


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Im sensitive!!!

I got no popcorn!!!!

No one likes me!!!!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:56:18 PM   
RemoteUser


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Wherever there is a group, there will be pack mentality.

The members are not always the same. The commentary varies. When a cohesive collection of attributed thought gathers in one spot in opposition to a single voice, there is a purpose, be it education, mockery, the establishment of an unwritten hierarchy, or some other end goal.

This can be said in general of positive threads, not merely negative ones.

How the pack reacts depends as much on its members as the opposition. It also reflects protocols already in place, as the individual gives way to a uniform approach.

As a personal side note, consensus is not always a good thing.

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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:58:47 PM   
anniezz338


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

The people who seem to think we all are just being mean, poopie heads are usually the ones who are the newer of the bunch here or are the ones who are extremely sensitive to everything it seems.

The ones who are the newer ones, do not know yet how these forums operate. They have not seen the previous posts of the one being ripped. They have not followed the forums for as long as others and usually they are the ones who have not really been on other internet forums or had to deal with such people in their lives or very, very few.

The ones who are extremely sensitive will find anything at all to be offensive even when it's not. They just can't handle strong emotions here or in their real lives whatsoever. They are ones who will always be this way until life kicks them in the ass long enough for them to finally say "fuck it".

This is why I think there should be some kind of warning before people enter the forums; enter at your own risk, or there should be a separate forum for them so that no one will ever hurt their feelings. If they still continue to follow through though then they get whatever is offered here.


I see this as very narrow minded. This seems to insinuate that the "old timers" operate the forums, which they do not. It's breaking it down to a US and THEM. Everyone takes things differently and i've seen some longer term members who basically say they can see the gang mentality too but does that make them sensitive? Hell no. Moronic post.

< Message edited by anniezz338 -- 11/10/2012 9:02:22 PM >


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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 8:59:43 PM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

This is why I think there should be some kind of warning before people enter the forums; enter at your own risk, or there should be a separate forum for them so that no one will ever hurt their feelings. If they still continue to follow through though then they get whatever is offered here.


Feelings will get hurt no matter what. You can't stop that regardless of approach or ideology.

The question I have is, does that justify pack mentality or the indifference of the popcorn crowd?

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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 9:01:42 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Especially, the many who will state that they are not a part of the clique, and the ones that state that it doesn't happen here.


Now now, we all know it happens. With a rare few do I simply look at the poster and know I will agree or disagree with them. And it also depends on the area. Politics is a bit different than the rest.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: So are we a bunch of meanies? - 11/10/2012 9:02:05 PM   
ToyOfRhamnusia


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I am fairly new here, and I can still remember what happened when I seriously and honestly tried to make an introduction of myself and why I was here.

That was no pleasant experience. Not so much because I was attacked by "a bunch of meanies", because that would be incorrectly stated, but because what appeared to be genuine interest in the problems I brought up as targets for my learning experiences soon turned into personal attacks and accusation of not having told the truth up-front. Sure, I was trying to keep the intro short, so naturally, quite a lot of stuff had to be told later - if there would be a reason to even to bring it up. I just stopped responding - and that was the end of that. But it certainly left me with a feeling of being quite unwelcome.

I have several times later run into similar situations where some people like to pretend being serious, but actually have nothing else to bring to the discussion than a personal attack of some sort, completely ignoring the contents and the reasoning I brought along. When it is not a personal matter, I can handle that fairly easily, but it certainly makes me question what the hell I am doing here... Just wasting my time?

And yes, the "bad" treatments have consistently been from "the old ones" that are insane or condemned or whatever (- quite true, it often appears...) I have given up on counting the number of times I have been accused of saying something I definitely did NOT say, and it gets very tiring to retain a polite attitude against that kind of crap.

I must also say that I have seen many newbies post prejudices or ridiculously ignorant platitudes or some other offensive stuff that really does deserve being called what it is. I mean, basing an OP on some generalization that truly is a matter of personal opinion and not at all related to facts (example: "Why are all Dommes fat?") does not deserve any serious responses, as it is based on a non-serious postulate. Being a newbie is no excuse for being stupid or ignorant.

But I do think that the "seasoned folks" here a bit too often ASSUME that an OP from a newbie is "just BS", and they include a bit more under that umbrella than what is justified, and they often appear to simply be using the opportunity to make a personal statement that isn't particularly helpful for anyone (and certainly not the newbie) - or even relevant to the topic. Sure, that's their "right" - but it is not particularly considerate of anyone but themselves, and maybe not even that.

It is, of course, an issue that many of the "old-timers" know each other fairly well, and that often turns their comments in the PUBLIC FORUM into remarks that really are better suited for private communication. Again, maybe it is their "right", but I will call it inconsiderate of all other members that also read those remarks and possibly don't make much meaning out of them - or see them as something they possibly were not meant to be - OR understand the vicious intent behind them.

A classic study of communication has shown that we rely on body language for 55% of the meaning we perceive, 38% we take from the tone of voice, and only 7% come from the use of words. This means that, when we exclusively use words, we miss 93% of the intended and expected meaning... This should cause all of us to be quite careful about wording our opinions - and also careful about reading what others wrote, before we assume something about the missing 93% that isn't correct.

However, the worst problem is always when the issue at hand is used as a base for personal attack, instead of addressing the issue. Too many people are unfortunately all too used to this being "legit", because that is what they see on TV when politicians "debate". And I dare to say that Americans are worse than anyone else on that. And so are their politicians, so no surprise.... And this is not at all particular for this site - you find it EVERYWHERE - our entire culture is now so infiltrated with that BS that it is sickening. But it does not become right just because so many use it.

I believe that we can all make an effort to read and understand before we hit the keyboard with some assumptions about the writer that aren't warranted by what was written. If in doubt, then most keyboards do have a question mark, so ASKING for clarification should not be that difficult. But, of course, if you are not really interested in the topic, but only want to post because you want your personal opinion on some related issue blasted, then I can see that the temptation to disrespect other members might just be too great for some to handle decently, particularly for those who cannot tell the difference between public behavior and their desired role in a private relationship. ("You" = "anyone")

I grew up learning that, "If you can't say anything nice about a person, then don't say anything". I think this is still a valid lesson. And it does not pertain to what the person posted! I strongly suggest everybody keeps in mind all the time that a post and a person are not the same - we are here to discuss what is POSTED, not the people who made the posts.

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