Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: BDSM has lost its way


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: BDSM has lost its way Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 12:42:32 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
Red, those changes didnt come about from kink, those changes came about through the wider culture.

How many of you have attended a major kink convention? How many of you do kink education or work on projects that reach a wide audience. Look at what makes K&P on fet, every pic of a cite young chick giving head. The current effort to define consent being worked on by NCSF has almost no mention of personal responsibilty.


(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 12:50:36 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Because we have BOLD, that assinine event created by.the Monachs. We have leather title holders without a shred of integrity. Hell I know major leaders who run scenes in major metro areas who xant keep their noses out of the bag, others who play shitfaced but nobody says anthing for fear of retribution.
I don't suppose you saw what I had to say about BOLD when one of the folks was discussing it here? I've got no problem with folks "celebrating" their type of dynamic. When it becomes exclusive based on orientation, that's another matter.

Always with the leather folks with you, isn't it? I don't think that debate will ever end between us. You will always focus on the bad. I'll always focus on the good. While we both acknowledge the other's standpoint, I don't think either of us will change our minds on which is the majority.

Playing shitfaced? Now that one isn't what I'd have thought would be one of your points of focus. I'm rather surprised that you have a complaint about what other people do as far as whether or not they decide to play intoxicated or not. That's kind of the participant's decision, unless there is some kind of moratorium at the establishment that prohibits it. If it's your play space or you're the DM it's your business. Otherwise, you're only entitled to your opinion.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 12:56:26 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
How many of you do kink education or work on projects that reach a wide audience.

Posting on message boards is the closest I come to that. I do other kinds of "education work" in meatlife, but I don't believe that sexuality is a force that drives society. Rather, I believe that changes in larger culture drive changes in sexuality and kink. As an example, imagine how sexual fantasies would change if the taboo on homosexuality and bisexuality were erased completely, or if no man found it "humiliating" to dress like a woman.

About 40% of my play partners have hard-limited any participation in the local scene. The world of kink is an iceberg, and we see only what's floating on the surface.

If your OP contained concrete data points, like your comment about the NCSF, this thread would probably have become a more interesting discussion by now. Instead, people are theorizing about your emotional and romantic state.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 1:10:12 PM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline
OP you sound like you either have a very narrow view of the lifestyle or you are very jaded.
Either way, I think your opinion about what the lifestyle was, is, or has become is just that YOUR opinion.



_____________________________

LilSquaw
Lifestyle & ProSwitch
Fetish Model, Producer, and Website Owner

http://www.clips4sale.com/69201
http://www.kinkbomb.com/studio/Sadistic_Babygirl_

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 1:14:10 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
FR

I don't view BDSM as a "movement", "organization", "religion" or any such thing. It is a private journey that I am taking. And except for the community that I have chosen to build around myself, I'm not really interested in other people's journeys, per se. So if others want to go more "deeply" that is their prerogative. If others want to stay "shallow", that is their prerogative, too. As long as no one is forcing me into a nonconsensual situation, all is well. And what other adults who are interested in BDSM choose to do consensually, is their own business.

I'm a foodie, too, but I could care less that fast food exists and that some people make it their primary source of nutrition. I don't see how the existence of fast food decreases the overall "seriousness", "depth", "nuance" of food that the rest of us choose to enjoy. It's just a variation on a theme, and it all goes under the heading "food". Whatever.

Make your own journey. Don't worry about the others.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 1:14:13 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

Sadly, it has lost its way and become no better than porn, a sad and tawdry refection of the lowest common denomonator. It celebrates young women and photos utterly divorced from deep connection and inner exploration and growth.


Perhaps to you.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 1:18:44 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
We're poor little kinksters who have lost our way;
Baaaaaaaaah, Baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, Baaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 1:20:54 PM   
noellesdestiny


Posts: 94
Joined: 9/3/2012
Status: offline
LOL

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 1:23:54 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We're poor little kinksters who have lost our way;
Baaaaaaaaah, Baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, Baaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.




Maybe we now have an actual use for GPS, that a good old school map cannot provide.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 1:24:46 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
SimplyMichael - i respect your opinions - except for this one. I don't understand how somebody on the web makes my life have less value. And since i'm not in it for the kink, ilicit thrill or porn, it is my life.

The way i look at it is kind of like religion - if you go to a certain church there are rules. If you choose to disregard those rules and still claim membership to that church, thats your option - but it doesn't make you a standup churchmember. It doesn't make you more spiritual or more than someone who doesn't go to church. It just means you are going through the motions for a reward other than increased spirituality.

There are people under the umbrella of BDSM who go through the motions for something. I don't know what they get from it, but i know what i get from it, and at the end of the day, thats what is important.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 1:31:53 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

There was a point in time where BDSM could have become a Westen version of Tantra and brought improvements to relationships, communication, consent, and personal freedom.

Sadly, it has lost its way and become no better than porn, a sad and tawdry refection of the lowest common denominator. It celebrates young women and photos utterly divorced from deep connection and inner exploration and growth.


...And vanillas could never figure out how to bring "improvements to relationships, communication, consent, and personal freedom" on their own without our help.

(Too bad we dropped the ball on our huge responsibility to save the world from itself.)

Seriously now, SimplyMichael, people are who they are. Spiritual vanillas would be spiritual if their kinky side woke up and they discovered BDSM (I'm one of them). The abusive ones in vanilla are often abusive if they wander into BDSM. Personally, I don't know anything about Tantra or a Western version of it, but I reap the benefits (improvements to relationships, communication, consent, and personal freedom) anyway.

Online BDSM, as reflected by the many who come to sites like these for fantasy fulfillment and spicier porn...I don't see where any of them have anything to do with us other than sharing the same sites. It's sad, but the lowest common denominator is often...what leaves the biggest reflection. Still, this doesn't make ME or my relationship with my slave any LESS. We are still going to MAsT and to munches, and we are willing to explain how our relationship works to vanillas when they ask...to educate them and help them understand the difference between BDSM porn fantasies...and that my male lifemate is my wife type, a "honey do", that our relationship is not about abuse.

Personally, I think the best way of enlightening people and clearing away some of the porn spawned misinformation, other than being out there and willing to talk one on one, is to...write fictional books and get them made into movies. Show people what is possible, and they might see it as a viable alternative to what they are already doing.

Back to the online thing. If someone wanted an online community to be a shining example of whatever point you wish to make, it would have to be severely moderated to gag the ones who are disruptive influences. Severely limiting who can participate would...disallow giving some people a chance to grow beyond their programming.

As for the young women in photos... bo's sister was dating someone from CollarMe, a "male sub" from out of state. (Both are in their sixties if not older.) This past week the man let her know that he has decided to start seeing a Domme who is closer to where he lives...who also happens to be in her low twenties. A 22 or 23 year old with a picture here at CollarMe. (She is probably a findomme, but if this is what he is seeking then it's his choice and I wish him luck with it.)

People will come to CollarMe to seek out what they are really looking for...and sometimes they are not into D/s or Master/slave but just want kink with people they have no intention of forming a power exchange relationship with. I know this site is supposed to be primarily about D/s, but how in the world do you screen out people who make "us" look tawdry? (It's not fair if they screen out all the findommes and pro-Dommes and then leave up all the profiles of obnoxious males. I can report "tawdry" dick pix all I want to, but closeups of an impaled anus are allowed; so are married cheaters and the guys who treat every woman like she's a hooker.)

This site...is not a MAsT meeting.

"...deep connection and inner exploration and growth" is something that doesn't happen with everybody. If it's their destiny, yes, but in the meantime a lot of people just want to have fun and explore different options in life, among them...their sexuality, in whatever form they choose, within some limits. It's not my job to lead the whole world in a better direction; I own my slave and myself and whatever else is in my household and that is all.

I'm not lost.

Btw, I'd hardly call porn "celebrating" young women. Being easily disposed of meat with no value other than temporarily being of use, is not something I would want a daughter of mine to experience. I've known women in the porn industry, as well as hookers and exotic dancers, and believe me, I have yet to meet a woman involved in one of these who feels celebrated. (Used, yes; degraded, hell yes, but hey...it pays their rent.)

My slave had two or three female dominants contact him in the past four weeks, each leaving only a sentence fragment in his mailbox. He already made his choice over what he was here for...the online fantasy/entertainment or for finding someone like me, so...their contacting him had nothing to do with our dynamic. Neither do the guys who don't bother to read my profile and offer me $300 to put out cigarettes on their scrotum.

Years ago, I shared street corners with other women...however, we were there for different reasons; I was waiting for my bus ride home and they were "working girls", and yes, sometimes guys drove by in cars and were hopeful and confused one with the other. Should I have been so concerned about being confused with the other women...that I stopped using public transportaion...? A simple, "No thanks, I'm just here waiting for my bus" worked well for me back then, and a simple "No thanks, I'm not interested" works well for me here.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 2:00:30 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

There was a point in time where BDSM could have become a Westen version of Tantra and brought improvements to relationships, communication, consent, and personal freedom.

Sadly, it has lost its way and become no better than porn, a sad and tawdry refection of the lowest common denomonator. It celebrates young women and photos utterly divorced from deep connection and inner exploration and growth.

Say whaaa?

My man. We live in a shallow culture largely populated by vacuous image obsessed people who spend the majority of our time chasing (Sorry, not trying to get all religious sounding on you but I can't think of a better phrasing) false idols, beauty (Airbrushed at that), money, youth, possessions, relationships. What would you expect?
To this cat, BDSM is nothing but a label to slap on my sexual proclivities, nothing more, nothing less.
To think that it, like any sub-culture, would be anything other than a reflection of current society is farcical at best, hopelessly romantic and unrealistically idealistic at worst. And to expect better of people, especially Americans, is to ignore history.
I mean shit, we are a culture founded by corporations who hoped to profit from explorations of the New World-in other words, Venture Capitalists.And we have the cultural values one would expect from such a founding.
Hell, look at the plethora of Hollywood magazines, our infatuation with shallow idiotic actresses and the "'beautiful people." call it the Kardashian kulture. Like it or not, that's what we live in.
What happens in BDSM is the same thing.
And this process isn't really helped by the internet, where far too many people can recreate themselves in the image of what they wish they were instead of being who they are. Instead it is accelerated.


And really, frankly, I can't stand internet BDSM porn...which is kinda shocking because I love, as in lovelovelove porn in general.
Not because it is often chock full of hotties (Big fan here-I'm all for them), but because most of it is this wimpy ass bedroom shit. Ooh, he slaps her ass with a flogger, it's so brutal. And listen to her fake moans, her pretend begging-it's about as real as saccharine.
Man, come on down to the Crucible one night(Not aiming this at you Michael, I know you do public play), listen to the sounds of heavy paddles on asses, real screams, watch the thighs quiver as folk try to maintain positions under harsh duress, now that shit is hot.
But none of the crap you see, whether it's in Hollywood movie or a porn, depicts anything close to the reality of a bound relationship...and they never will.
Why?
Because in the end, the relationship, like any relationship, especially the key points are internal and can never be seen. They are the small moments of sharing, the joys undergone together, and perhaps even more so, the sorrows and pains that we've shared and help carry each other through.
Someone once said that a minute of real life is deeper than any novel, no matter how long or how well written-the same applies here.

Edited to add that Tocqueville predicted this in the 18th century-he said that ultimately democracy was a social experiment that was bound to fail as, in the end, people would not rise, but instead we would lower things to the least common denominator.
Right now, watching TV, I can't help but think the man was right.

< Message edited by Kana -- 12/6/2012 2:02:53 PM >


_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 2:18:44 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
Yep, hopeless idealist here, guilty as charged. I was going to reply to Lady Pact but your post makes it more clear.

BOLD was a brilliant marketing move by some very cynical people. They currently charge for mentoring. However as educators they got lityle traction. So they carved off a very profitable market,segment,(fat,white male doms,who can afford to,try,and,buy,status) and created a large event where they were the presenters, thus owning,what they,call "het leather" and,its the equivelent,of a vanity press.

Now after 50 shades showed how profitable all this is, watch,kink.com start giving more cock sucking classes with aging,porn stars...which is what pushed me over the edge.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 2:33:58 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

But Crappy, the poor in spirit and in usefulness are always with us, and the old guard never guarded anything, you and yours can get your kink on the right way and leave all the exit to eden crowds in the movie theater, with no real damage. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 2:39:03 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
Is true - you can be the gold nugget at the core of crap. The bit of truth in all legends. The white knight on the white horse with the white hat.

actually , i feel sorry for people who look at the internet and think that is all there is to what we do. What a shame.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 2:42:02 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
watch,kink.com start giving more cock sucking classes with aging,porn stars

What on earth is wrong with this? It seems like a total victory to me. It presents women as sexual beings even though they are past the "age of invisibility." Also, I think there's no question that internet-age women are less inhibited than women in their 40s. There seems to be a trough -- the sexual revolution of the 60's and 70s, then the AIDS scare, then all of a sudden wham the internet, and internet-oriented girls were guaranteed to see images of tentacle porn and bestiality before they turned 16. Why shouldn't women of the AIDS-scare generation learn to suck cock as well as their mothers and daughters?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 2:48:55 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Is true - you can be the gold nugget at the core of crap. The bit of truth in all legends. The white knight on the white horse with the white hat.

actually , i feel sorry for people who look at the internet and think that is all there is to what we do. What a shame.


Me too, but kink.com is a real world place, BOLD, is a real world event, NCSF, is a real world org, and the,issues I am speaking to ARE about the real world, bdsm is fast becomeing big.money.. As for white knight, think more don quixote.

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 2:51:27 PM   
CharmingKitty


Posts: 103
Joined: 6/2/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Yep, hopeless idealist here, guilty as charged.

Who's ideals?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 3:08:02 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
And thank God it hasn't become tantra. I don't want to have to feel spiritual when I get tied up. That's about sex for us. It's extreme feelings and screaming happily.

I go to shul to fulfill my spiritual needs. If I have to change religions to get tied up, then I'll do without it. Thankfully Michael, you don't get to force that choice on me.

You used to be a lot happier. But neither here nor at fet have I seen you post anything positive in months. You want to see change? You won't get it by telling everyone else how much truer you are. Be the change you want to see, live your life so that others see something of value in it and seek to emulate it. I'm not seeing anything worthy of emulation in you these days. Have you been assessed for depression?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to CharmingKitty)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/6/2012 3:09:09 PM   
FemmeD76


Posts: 12
Joined: 11/10/2012
Status: offline
I think it sounds like maybe YOU have lost YOUR way?

Maybe it's time to take stock and refresh yourself. It sounds like you have lost a mental connection with someone and are in withdrawal.

Look after yourself.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: BDSM has lost its way Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094