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RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 2:14:42 AM

CynthiaWVirginia

Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HucowMilkMaster3

One last thing, you can tell these people by the thousands of posts that they put out... they have no life, just endless intellectual crap posted pretending to be something they are not and calling themselves something with a title that was NEVER EARNED beyond their fantasies.

Be sure to keep your own post count low...or else all of your valuable words of wisdom will evolve into "just endless intellectual crap" posted by another pretender.

This winged cow is going to toddle off to play in the Dreamworld on my Pokemon Black 2 game. (I don't need a "house" to belong to, and I don't need anyone else bestowing some title on me for fantasy fulfillment.)

Mistress Cynthia

(in reply to HucowMilkMaster3)

Post #: 81

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 2:31:43 AM

Nakhla

Posts: 104
Joined: 10/24/2012
Status: offline

I've seen similar complaints across all subcultures.

Let's say your thing is purple bowler hats.

"Back when the Purple Bowler Hat society started, there were just a few of us. It really meant something: wearing a purple bowler had really made you stand out as someone unafraid and unique and individual, and because we were so few the community really had a mutual support structure. It was more than a hat, it was a transcendental alternative to the mainstream!

"Then all of sudden, everybody started wearing purple bowler hats. Every time I went to the purple bowler hat convention it was a sea of new faces, and some of the old gang had retired their hats completely. Now the younger set moved in and ruining it into the ground through popular versions, cheaper purple bowler hats, even wearing them as fashion! These people don't know what it was like back when one was aberrant to stray out of the typical hat colors.

"Back then, wearing a purple bowler hat really meant something. Today, it's just a hat. This scene is over."

I've heard variants on this from everything from punks to protestors, hippies to heathens, anarchists to anoraks. No matter what your subculture, the golden age was right around when you first got involved and ended right around the time everyone else did.

I'm quite enjoying how things are now, but I do look forward to bemoaning anyone who enjoys their sexuality similarly after mine has peaked and dwindled. Mourning modernity is the Viagra of the soul.

_____________________________

Submediant In Search Of Dominant Resolution... Formerly WestBaySlave on these forums.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 82

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 2:45:43 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

ETA: Ok, after reading the rest of the thread now, I think it seems you are upset because you're not selling as many toys or having a packed room at your seminars

Wrong on all accounts. Selling toys was a labor of love and I stopped because I now live on a sailboat. I am still asked to teach but keep turning down offers cause my heart isnt in it. I still.post here because there ARE people with relationships and perspectives I value. And...this place has always been favored by iconoclasts who reject the larger kink scene.

Seems that our lives have run in parallel. Although living in the mountains presently, we live on a sail boat. We ran a BDSM shop which we sold on because our sail boat was just too small to be a workshop and a home.
Both of us have run workshops and given talks at seminars and both of us still get invited to by the older crowd but we choose not to.
I went through a very similar thing to you Michael, so I can kind of appreciate where you are coming from.
I was one of the first people on the UK BDSM scene to do play piercings. What I did was radical and new back then and everyone was excited. I gave talks and did workshops on not only the safety aspects behind piercing but the spiritual freedom that needles brought some people. It was the same with 'Snake Bite Branding'. Steve was the first to put this branding on the market and teach other body mods artists how to do it. Now everyone is piercing and branding and they are doing some pretty spectacular work.
I remember going to a local market a few years ago where someone was giving a talk on play piercing. I sat listening to her lecture and I was seething. She was an ex student of mine and as far as I was concerned she was stealing my thunder. Everyone wanted to talk to her instead of me. I was majorly pissed off and (in my eyes) piercing had just become so main stream that it no longer had any meaning. Now of course it did really, it just didn't have any meaning left for me. I bemoaned that people were doing it dangerously. I stomped my feet and belittled the scene as a whole. I had well and truly had my nose pushed out of joint

What I understand about my reaction then was, I didn't want to do these things anymore but I didn't want anyone else to take my place. I wanted recognition without putting the hard work in. I feel embarrassed to look back and admit this but its true.
The thing is Michael, making a fuss and bemoaning the 'modern BDSM scene' just makes you look sour. I'm sure you have given a lot to the scene and I'm sure a lot of people know that. You had your day but unless you throw yourself back into what you were doing with vigor and determination, you have to accept that others are now stepping into your shoes. Step back and embrace what you have and what you had and celebrate. Remember, everything evolves eventually.

(in reply to HucowMilkMaster3)

Post #: 83

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 7:16:15 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Wrong on all accounts. Selling toys was a labor of love and I stopped because I now live on a sailboat. I am still asked to teach but keep turning down offers cause my heart isnt in it. I still.post here because there ARE people with relationships and perspectives I value. And...this place has always been favored by iconoclasts who reject the larger kink scene.

Correct Me if I'm wrong, but you specifically applied to present at Leather and Leis. Not that I'm knocking you for a second that you will be doing classes there. I think it's great! I'm just kind of surprised that you are doing it considering how you have always come across in your opinion of leather people. The fact that you are going to immerse yourself among people who actually *like* those traditions and protocols that you've always scoffed at gives Me something of a giggle. If your heart isn't in it, why bother? Is it prestige? A goal that you decided you had to accomplish?

Being asked to teach can make a person feel very positive. I'm very familiar with that. It's really cool when a group or an establishment asks you to come back. I'm still on the fence about doing Northern Exposure 4. If I do, I'm damn sure going to have better accommodations.

Of course, that king sized bed at the last stop fit the three of us perfectly. <grin> Wonderful host, I must mention. Found a piece of jewelery that I had considered lost.

I can't really put a dog in this fight. I'm not spiritual. I'm not enlightened.

I am, however, a lover of books. There's good stuff in there. I wish more people would read before going out and making mistakes. Those of us who got into this gig before the net did that and it's kind of a dying breed.

Master Fire's book was mentioned here. I would highly recommend it. I'm using it to help craft My own Master's Manual. Every leather person should have one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HucowMilkMaster3

One last thing, you can tell these people by the thousands of posts that they put out... they have no life, just endless intellectual crap posted pretending to be something they are not and calling themselves something with a title that was NEVER EARNED beyond their fantasies.

Don't be so sure about that. You might be quite mistaken.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 84

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 7:23:58 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Thank god somebody gets it...however I have never sought the limelight, never sought to be a guru of anything. Most people today who do presenting start after being around less than five years. I had way over ten and,it was only after an ex poster here (Elegant) told me I had a lot to share that I started presenting. I prefer being in the background.

Its not sour grapes, I am simply jaded. Seeing behind the curtain, realizing the wizard is not only just a man,but one with really low standards of ethics and often little if any integrity. Its all about technique, technical skill, its like they are teaching performing seals as opposed to liberating minds.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 85

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 7:45:27 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

LadyPact

Its SO funny how many are attacking me for supposedly worshiping "the old days" and or "leather". You KNOW I dont put leather on a pedestal! However, that isnt the same as not respecting it, did you read MrEasy (Patrick Mulhaneys) piece on leather, if not, you should. So, yes, anyone who claims to have traits like integrity or honerbased on.being "leather" I am going to laugh, it not the label, its the actions that allow
one to claim those things.

The host of Leather & Leis used to post here on CM many years ago and we have known each other for a long time. If you look at their schedule, I am actually teaching a bunch of classes. They chose them because I do talk about energy, connection, and relationships. I thought it rather tragic that I stood out for that reason. I am terrified my classes will not be good enough. Always a fear when you teach somewhere new, you feel like a big fish (competent NOT vip) but you never know the size of your pond so speak. But that event is tiny and way outside the mainstream.

Fires book IS part of the problem but lets not derail the thread with that.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 86

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 7:47:13 AM

OttersSwim

Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline

Having come back to this and read this topic through, I see now what you are getting at - your OP seemed like a whine. So I will ask that you forgive my snark post earlier and consider this.

The Noise Factor. In any organization, group, set, or subset of life, there will always be "Noise" - it doesn't matter if you are a corporate manager, in the structure of a social organization, or even just someone in a group of people looking on.

BDSM organizations, like all organizations everywhere, have noise too. It is the subtext of politics, personalities, and egos that runs constantly in the background. Now, I happen to think that BDSM, Leather, and all that jazz are pretty special as a lifestyle choice, and my Lady and I carefully pick and choose those elements that work for us, and discard those that don't. All through our relationship, we have been aware of the "Noise", but not become part of it, nor did we choose to give it much heed as it seemed that focusing on the politics, personalities and egos around us might make us myopic to the larger picture of the beauty that we had created in our lives.

This past year, we became involved in an organization and had a closer brush with that noise and for a very brief time, became affected by it. Enough so, that we again are making the choice to draw back - it is just not worth going there for us.

But the fact that there is Noise out there does not in any way diminish what we have created for ourselves, nor what others that we consciously choose to associate with create.

So we carefully pick our way through, choosing to focus on the Signal, rather than the Noise, and choosing to associate mostly with people who do the same.

I will recommend same to you. Be well.

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 12/7/2012 7:48:24 AM >

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 87

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 7:52:35 AM

ClassAct2006

Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline

For jme it is just internally how I am built and not about a culture or outward manifestations.

Take an analogy - gay men. You can either just live a normal professional life and happen to have a long term gay male civil partner, possible have a child by a surrogate or whatever. Your life is not different from most. Or you can wear special clothes, go on gay pride marches, wear badges at work etc. Two different ways to express your sexuality but in both cases you are gay.

So for me feeling born sub and being submissive in all relationships I am in the former category, no particular desire to pull myself into a latest suit unless a man I'm with tells me to, no need to go to BDSM clubs or lobby - I am just am as I am. Sadism etc will have been part of how some people are for thousands of years. It is not a new thing.

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 88

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 7:58:57 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am curious how many of you have ever read either of The Topping Book or The Bottoming Book?

I haven't.

Oh fuck... is it a requirement?

Should I go and see all the people I've had kinky relationships and make some kind of formal apology?

Oh... god... Am I an "unlicensed Dom"

oops.

I have failed to articulate my point for you to respond like this.

As for my reason to ask about those books is they offer a snapshot of a spark, a possible direction for kink that embodied some of what I am talking about. If your kink is all private and you dont care about public scene or what its influence is, wonderful, nothing in this thread is about your private life.

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 89

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 7:58:59 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

Mourning modernity is the Viagra of the soul.

I'd like to nominate this for SQOTD!!!!

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to Nakhla)

Post #: 90

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:12:24 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Michael, I could make half a dozen phone calls now to people I have known (scene wise) for well over a decade and I would be prepared to put a bet on each one of them telling me, at some point during the conversation, that they are jaded with the scene and how it is now compared to how it was then. I know more jaded people than happy and contented ones.
I'm glad I was here all those years ago when 'protocol' and 'learning' still had its place on the center stage.
I'm delighted that the scene has grown as big as it has. I wouldn't want to socialize with a lot of these people, especially the self professed experts, unless of course I was mightily impressed with their expertise. I love the way the scene has evolved into what it is now and I look forward to how it will re-shape itself again in the future. Nothing stands still and so if you don't keep moving with them you just get left behind, jaded and unhappy.
We don't have to and shouldn't accept low standards and ethics but whether we accept them or not isn't going to make them go away. Don't be so intent on what others are doing wrong because it really shouldn't affect you. My only advice here is to try concentrating on you're own enjoyment.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 91

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:12:25 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

What I find both sad and ironic about the reactions to my post is that the people and relationships I have known from here and the many lifelong real world friends I have made EMBODY what I am speaking to. Deep meaningful connectons, hot sweaty rough sex, deep open sharing, forging your own path, personal responsibility, the power of honesty, and treating your lowliest slave as an honest to god partner are values many here expouse daily on threads and show in their posting history.

But CM is a backwater in the larger kink scene. The things people here mock, certifications, pay for training, asinine books, self important blowhards, mentors for hire, clubs with secret decoder rings ARE EXACTLY WHAT I AM RAILING AGAINST...LOL! That is what the scene is becoming.

As for modernity, bring it on. If I were a better writer people couldnt so easily project their fears into what I write here. I am not lamenting the loss of a "golden age" but instead seeing the chance of achieving one getting less and less likely.

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 92

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:19:30 AM

me4oru

Posts: 24
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

This is so true, its been packaged and marketed in the lowest of denominators,shades of grey didnt help, u can now buy vanilla bdsm kits online.....i do have a problem with the yuppie type that reads a book and says they are a Domme/Dom, it takes from the ppl that have real and integral feelings that arent just a passing phase-nor a catch word status..Its like the profiles that say all this stuff about bien this and that, live the lifestyle crap...oh and im 19.....your 19 and u know all this and have all this experience...I THINK NOT!!!!go read another book...lol...SO how do we change this? time and further seperation from the money spending masses(your not kinky untill u spend money type) i was in a 17 year Domme/sub relationship long before internet hype came to be, we spent zero money and had very few props ,but what we did have was an awsome long term lifestyle relationship.... sadly ended with her death from a incurable disease...almost 8 years ago now.RIP.......so in sumerization....get real ,be real, get off the puter, throw the book out and experience life , practice what u blab about...4-real....use your ears not your mouth and learn before U talk ,not to look like and be a poser or a fool....jmho...

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 93

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:22:06 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Michael, I could make half a dozen phone calls now to people I have known (scene wise) for well over a decade and I would be prepared to put a bet on each one of them telling me, at some point during the conversation, that they are jaded with the scene and how it is now compared to how it was then. I know more jaded people than happy and contented ones.
I'm glad I was here all those years ago when 'protocol' and 'learning' still had its place on the center stage.
I'm delighted that the scene has grown as big as it has. I wouldn't want to socialize with a lot of these people, especially the self professed experts, unless of course I was mightily impressed with their expertise. I love the way the scene has evolved into what it is now and I look forward to how it will re-shape itself again in the future. Nothing stands still and so if you don't keep moving with them you just get left behind, jaded and unhappy.
We don't have to and shouldn't accept low standards and ethics but whether we accept them or not isn't going to make them go away. Don't be so intent on what others are doing wrong because it really shouldn't affect you. My only advice here is to try concentrating on you're own enjoyment.

I am...but that involves walking away for the most part. I feel like I should leave a better scene than I found and frankly it wasnt all that good then but it is certainly grey now. Its NOT that the newbies are doing it wrong, its that the culture they are being introduced to is shallow and empty, just typical shitty american relationships but with more toys.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 94

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:27:04 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

But you know, when you fuckin kids were doing it you ruined it, shoving ice cubes up your ass.......

And when your mother and father used to look at 'German' magazines and could get a 'Swedish Massager' from Sears (you know, one of those big strap on your hand jobs that heat up to burning if you use them 'really'.

And your fuckin grandparents........for fucks sake, pulling down her panties behind the barn......

It is becoming acceptable, more and more, and on the bell curve you got the bulk of them going to be in the slap and tickle crowd and thinking that they are MasterDisaster from the House of Smoke and Mirrors, and buy the T-Shirt and they are PhDs in the life.

Meh, they will fall out of it, the prancers and pretenders and the overall core group will enlarge slightly, and nobody needs to drink the poison koolaide except in a scene, here.

The world will spin, there will be much pussy and merriment, and big tits.

You can quote me.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to me4oru)

Post #: 95

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:28:51 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: me4oru

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

This is so true, its been packaged and marketed in the lowest of denominators,shades of grey didnt help, u can now buy vanilla bdsm kits online.....i do have a problem with the yuppie type that reads a book and says they are a Domme/Dom, it takes from the ppl that have real and integral feelings that arent just a passing phase-nor a catch word status..Its like the profiles that say all this stuff about bien this and that, live the lifestyle crap...oh and im 19.....your 19 and u know all this and have all this experience...I THINK NOT!!!!go read another book...lol...SO how do we change this? time and further seperation from the money spending masses(your not kinky untill u spend money type) i was in a 17 year Domme/sub relationship long before internet hype came to be, we spent zero money and had very few props ,but what we did have was an awsome long term lifestyle relationship.... sadly ended with her death from a incurable disease...almost 8 years ago now.RIP.......so in sumerization....get real ,be real, get off the puter, throw the book out and experience life , practice what u blab about...4-real....use your ears not your mouth and learn before U talk ,not to look like and be a poser or a fool....jmho...

What absolute bollocks

So bloody what if you can buy BDSM kits online now. Why the hell would you have a problem with the 'yuppie type'? If you don't like them then leave them alone. They are none of your business.
and then you ask, 'how do we change this?' What the hell?
You sound very bitter and very judgmental and its unusual for me to have such a rant but you just got my frigging goat.

(in reply to me4oru)

Post #: 96

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:29:36 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

LadyPact

Its SO funny how many are attacking me for supposedly worshiping "the old days" and or "leather". You KNOW I dont put leather on a pedestal! However, that isnt the same as not respecting it, did you read MrEasy (Patrick Mulhaneys) piece on leather, if not, you should. So, yes, anyone who claims to have traits like integrity or honerbased on.being "leather" I am going to laugh, it not the label, its the actions that allow
one to claim those things.

The host of Leather & Leis used to post here on CM many years ago and we have known each other for a long time. If you look at their schedule, I am actually teaching a bunch of classes. They chose them because I do talk about energy, connection, and relationships. I thought it rather tragic that I stood out for that reason. I am terrified my classes will not be good enough. Always a fear when you teach somewhere new, you feel like a big fish (competent NOT vip) but you never know the size of your pond so speak. But that event is tiny and way outside the mainstream.

Fires book IS part of the problem but lets not derail the thread with that.

You would laugh at My integrity? Really? You would do that? I am quite disappointed.

Fire's book is a rather good piece. Please feel free to start another thread to discuss it's merits. Or non-merits, as you see fit. I don't think it is what you are here to do.

Dude, you're kind of fucking up. There aren't many folks who will say so based on something more than frivolity.

Don't do this in your head, Michael. Don't you see what you're doing?

I'll help, if I can. You know I will. See, I'm one of those leather folks. It's what we do.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 97

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:42:05 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I would laugh if you told me you had integrity based simply because you identify as leather

Verses

I saw your actions had integrity, the fact you identify as leather wouldnt factor in.

Claiming an identity is not the same as being it nor does it mean you have the traits the label suggests.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 98

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:49:26 AM

OttersSwim

Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
I am...but that involves walking away for the most part. I feel like I should leave a better scene than I found and frankly it wasnt all that good then but it is certainly grey now. Its NOT that the newbies are doing it wrong, its that the culture they are being introduced to is shallow and empty, just typical shitty american relationships but with more toys.

Wow, taking the burden of the whole scene onto your shoulders? Really?

Feel free to beautify your little corner of the world and certainly touch all that come within your scope, but don't pick up more than is your due.

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 99

RE: BDSM has lost its way - 12/7/2012 8:59:35 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
I am...but that involves walking away for the most part. I feel like I should leave a better scene than I found and frankly it wasnt all that good then but it is certainly grey now. Its NOT that the newbies are doing it wrong, its that the culture they are being introduced to is shallow and empty, just typical shitty american relationships but with more toys.

Wow, taking the burden of the whole scene onto your shoulders? Really?

Feel free to beautify your little corner of the world and certainly touch all that come within your scope, but don't pick up more than is your due.

Well...fuck. You spoke of signal to noise ratio. You got involved in that ratio and dropped out. I still have a desire tobshift that ratio in favor of signal...

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 100

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