quote:

all of the shooters mentioned were under 21 an thus it was a violation of federal law for them to own a handgun

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It claims to tell us how many times something of which there is no record happenes there it is nothing but a wag (wild a!! guess)

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ugh.... this is what you arent getting.

Consider how long it takes to operate a pump shot gun. Hard to kill 39 people with it, no?

How about a pistol? Time to reload eventually before you hit that magical number you want to claim.

If the killer had not had two semi automatic weapons in that school, would he have killed as many as he did? The answer is no.

How many guns would someone have to take with them to do the same type of damage as it would take with a semi automatic or an automatic. These kids grabbed those weapons to so the maximum amount of damage in a short period of time. Thats the goal. Kill as many as possible then themselves before being caught. But, like those in Columbine, and those yesterday, if they did not have access to those guns, to any guns, they would have had to find a different avenue to killing.

Somehow, I think you missed my whole discussion with LaT about gun safes.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Uh, may I ask a simple question?

Considering guns are easier to smuggle than drugs, and the ATF has intercepted large numbers of guns entering the country, what do you propose to do about the guns that weren't intercepted.

Hell we cant even keep the illegal aliens with back packs full of cocaine from coming across the Mexican border, unless we put an ICE agent every five feet along the border and inspect every vehicle that crosses the border by tearing every body panel in it out, and inspecting every box and crate in every container that arrives in every port and crosses the borders every day, how in the hell to you propose to keep the damn things out?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
2000 people a year die by privately owned and legal guns of all types and calibers.

30000 men, women and children die each year by illegal guns in the hands of gang members.

Save 2000 and ignore the others because the majority if them live in poor neighborhoods where drive by shootings are the norm.

You come up with a way to effectively and realistically get rid of every illegal gun in this country and keep more from getting in, then we can talk. Until then, more people are gonna die with illegal guns and a fucking hell of a lot of them are going to be kids.

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He said all of the victims at the school, including 20 first-graders and six adults, were shot with a Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle and that "numerous" magazines were emptied at the scene. Lanza, a quiet young man described as developmentally disabled and who struggled socially, had hundreds of bullets that went unused, Vance said.

"There was a lot of ammo, a lot of clips," he said. "Certainly a lot of lives were potentially saved" by first responders approaching the school.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

At what point do the lives of innocent children ever be less than the price of some freedoms??

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And, as I've said before, my country has digits fewer gun deaths per capita, with restrictions that wouldn't have stopped this incident and gun ownership rates that rank 11th in the world (out of 170'ish countries), so I think there's other measures that will make a difference I don't think you'll see from restrictions. Where there's enough suffering, alienation, disempowerment and fear, you will always find people killing each other. Try solving those problems, and focus on the restrictions that make sense because they make a difference.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Hmm, I think I see a trend here.

I read a post and then went back through the entire thread.

And the phrase "hundreds of bullets" has indeed come up repeatedly.

Red Jacket Firearms of Louisiana made a twin mount full auto set of AR15's with beta mags (mags that hold 100 rounds.)

IN the mag dump test fire (mag dump, change mags and maintain fire) in one minute the weapon was so hot that the gas return tube was red hot and the weapon actually ceased to function.

They had to water cool the barrels to make it functional.

There is no way humanly possible that you can achieve the maximum rate of fire from any semi automatic weapon.

Full auto assault weapons can have a cycle rate of 600 to 1200 rounds a minute, not that you want to do that, you will as has been said, melt the barrel. For the record that happened quite often to the belt fed M60 SAW in the Vietnam conflict.

So with a semi auto rifle, lets figure a max rate of fire of say 60 rounds a minute at a range. I doubt very seriously if this shooter got even close to that.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

For an M-16A1

650 - 750 rounds per minute

For an M-16 A2

700 - 950 rounds per minute

http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html

Bushmaster

Cyclic rate of Fire: 45 - 90 in Semi-Automatic

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=446537

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

For an M-16A1

650 - 750 rounds per minute

For an M-16 A2

700 - 950 rounds per minute

http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html

Bushmaster

Cyclic rate of Fire: 45 - 90 in Semi-Automatic

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=446537

Tazzy, the M16, A1, A2, A3 are military weapons not in the hands of the general public. And the rate of fire you are quoting is in full auto.

The bushmaster, AR 15, and all those weapons civilians can buy based on the AR frame are all semi automatic.

Dont believe me, go to your local gun store and ask for yourself.

In other words, you are comparing apples to steak.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

For an M-16A1

650 - 750 rounds per minute

For an M-16 A2

700 - 950 rounds per minute

http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html

Bushmaster

Cyclic rate of Fire: 45 - 90 in Semi-Automatic

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=446537

Tazzy, the M16, A1, A2, A3 are military weapons not in the hands of the general public. And the rate of fire you are quoting is in full auto.

The bushmaster, AR 15, and all those weapons civilians can buy based on the AR frame are all semi automatic.

Dont believe me, go to your local gun store and ask for yourself.

In other words, you are comparing apples to steak.

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And since I specifically said pistols, comparing apples to steak when I mentioned tuna fish.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Starting this thread to keep the one about the Massacre in Connecticut from going to far off the point, one mentally unbalanced individual killing people for no good reason.

Now for some facts:

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More than 53,000 people have been murdered in Mexico in the last six years—most of them by a variety of pistols, rifles, and assault weapons owned by Mexican drug cartels. While the exact number of firearms in circulation in Mexico eludes everyone, we know tens of thousands are seized every year by Mexican authorities.

These facts and figures might lead one to believe that it’s easy for cartels to buy or otherwise acquire guns in Mexico. In fact, Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws on the entire planet—as well as one of the planet’s highest annual death tolls as a result of gun violence.
source

Now before you anti-gun fanatics start saying that the drug thugs are just going across the border into the states to get their firearms, I might as well point out that these cartels are using a lot of automatic weapons, meaning they primarily use the "spray and pray" style of shooting.

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On the other hand, you might look at this little set of facts.

In Sandpoint, North Idaho, where I live for most of the summer, it's extremely easy to buy a gun. You can buy them at stores and at gun shows, or just at yard sales. Yet there are almost no gun deaths in Bonner County, Idaho.

The last ones of note in North Idaho were done by the FBI at Ruby Ridge, and that's a different story./snip

On the other hand, in my beloved Los Angeles, where I live most of the year, there's extremely strict gun control. It's a real project to buy a gun.

Here, we have gang shootings and death by guns on a terrifying scale. In my native city of Washington, D.C., the same goes: Strict gun control and lots of shootings.

The same goes for Chicago. Strict gun control and a lot of killing.

source

Another example of a country with strict gun control laws is Jamaica, very strict laws and a very high rate of gun violence.

Of course there is Israel, very lax gun laws and very low rate of gun violence.

And people who are pro-gun are not monsters who care nothing for human life or the damage a gun can do. I am a combat vet, and I know full and well what a weapon in the right or even wrong hands can do.

I can also say that if I had to, I could go to the nearest large city, spend a day or two and come home with a few untraceable weapons that may or may not be available legally.

Of course, you could look at the rampant use of firearms in the various civil and tribal wars going on in Africa. I can guarantee that those killers did not go down to the local sporting goods store and buy those weapons.

I own sporting weapons and some collectables. There is one weapon that I have been trying to get in my collection for a number of years, a Soviet Era Dragunov sniper rifle. They are illegal to import into the United States and have been for a number of years. The only ones legally allowed to be sold in the United States are those that got here before the ban.

Recently, at a gun show I was told that I could buy one, but the price was 3 times the market price, which to me indicated the weapon would be illegal.

The point, anyone can get a gun at any time, anyplace for the right price.

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

This discussion can no longer afford to be had on such levels Aswad.

Kindly stuff it:

One group doesn't get to set the parameters of governance on behalf of the rest of the population.

Similarly, one poster doesn't get to set the parameters of debate on behalf of the rest of the participants.

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when you can ay the same about your statue than I am sure the authorities in your country will consider appropriate restricions.

I think it's already endangered, on account of too high heavy metal content, to which I can only say as it does: moλov λaße.

— Aswad.

P.S.: I was alerted to the post I replied to. I usually don't see yours, as per our conversation. Please don't waste more time on me.

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I don't think any of the gun control crowd is under the impression that it will eliminate mass murder but that regulation would mitigate the frequency of such events.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The 1994 ban on assault rifles would still have stopped people owning the gun used.