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See, you and I don't disagree on that fundamental issue highlighted in red. HOWEVER, the problem is the absurd premise that this epidemic can be solved or even treated with firearms regulation. It simply cannot work. We have over 100 years worth of accumulation of "modern" semi and fully automatic weapons in private collections and in the black market.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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See, you and I don't disagree on that fundamental issue highlighted in red. HOWEVER, the problem is the absurd premise that this epidemic can be solved or even treated with firearms regulation. It simply cannot work. We have over 100 years worth of accumulation of "modern" semi and fully automatic weapons in private collections and in the black market.

Out of curiosity... all these killings... all these school shootings...

Where did THOSE guns come from?

Private collections or black market?

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Who did these killings? Gang bangers? Criminals? Or Someone who wasnt "quite right"?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack
So, we have gone from the initial point of "Here's the problem, what's the working solution?" to "Here's the problem... what is the most ass backwards 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' solution to address it?"


We also had forced sterilization of the subjectively defined "mentally retarded" and the physical enslavement of of certain peoples here in this country's past. Are those up for consideration in this thread along with every stupid, repugnant "solution swallows the problem as the greater of both evils" now?

If nothing your point only underscores mine... you can't "restrict" these weapons as proposed to have any meaningful impact on the issue... you must instead turn the Constitution on its ear, rob the entire population of its right to bear arms, confiscate legal property and do a voo doo chant in hopes the nut bags don't figure out how to get black market hardware to unleash on the completely defenseless population.

Bravo.

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ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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See, you and I don't disagree on that fundamental issue highlighted in red. HOWEVER, the problem is the absurd premise that this epidemic can be solved or even treated with firearms regulation. It simply cannot work. We have over 100 years worth of accumulation of "modern" semi and fully automatic weapons in private collections and in the black market.

Out of curiosity... all these killings... all these school shootings...

Where did THOSE guns come from?

Private collections or black market?

Both.

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Who did these killings? Gang bangers? Criminals? Or Someone who wasnt "quite right"?

Anybody who kills other than under a legal privilege (cop on duty, self defense, defense of others) is a criminal, so ALL of them are criminals. SOME Were criminals before the massacre, some were not. In terms of the school shootings, I would say ALL would fall under "not quite right".

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Anybody who kills other than under a legal privilege (cop on duty, self defense, defense of others) is a criminal, so ALL of them are criminals. SOME Were criminals before the massacre, some were not. In terms of the school shootings, I would say ALL would fall under "not quite right".

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I, and many countless millions of others, don't see it as "robbing the entire population of its rights to bear arms" either.
I also don't see it an "ass-backwards" solution either.

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People here legally buy their homes and own it for years and years, sometimes generations.
When the highways commission want to build a new motorway, they just slap a compulsory purchase order on you and you have to get out or you'll get raised to the ground like the house.

You just can't see it can you.
What was given can just as easily be taken away if it is abused.
And if it's legal property now, if they change the laws it will no longer be legal property - it will be reclassified as illegal contraband.

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Don't try to bring in other irrelevant subjects as a comparison.
It is gun crime and gun-related mass killings we are dealing with. Nothing else.

You just can't stand the fact that for the first time since the 2nd was written, you might have your toys taken away from you because a load of stupid citizens can't look after them as they should. The 2nd was written for a purpose - a purpose which no longer fits the modern US lifestyle; so scrap it.

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Don't blame the anti-gun groups - blame the countless irresponsible gun owners that cause most of this shit in the first place. The NRA haven't been very good at doing this and they have failed miserably to educate and control irresponsible owners.

What do you do when there's a fight between two kids over a toy??
You remove the toy and difuse the fight before even more kids get hurt.
And yes, I see both sides of the argument as kids fighting over toys.
If the toy is going to cause a fight or hurt others - take that toy away.
No discussions, no replacement toys, no more arguments.

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When you manage to take your blinkers off, you might just realise that a country WITHOUT guns is a better and safer country than a country with guns.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Which one was "both"?

Columbine, all legally purchased.

Sandy Hook, legally purchased.

Virginia Tech, Legally Puchased.

West Nickles Mines School, legally purchased.

Honestly, which killings were the result of stolen guns? And I dont mean stolen from family members who left the killer easy access.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Which one was "both"?

Columbine, all legally purchased.

Sandy Hook, legally purchased.

Virginia Tech, Legally Puchased.

West Nickles Mines School, legally purchased.

Honestly, which killings were the result of stolen guns? And I dont mean stolen from family members who left the killer easy access.

The weapons were not legally purchased in Columbine the duo were convicted of felony theft and the sale of a firearm is illegal. Also you can "not mean what you wish, but that doesn't change the status of a stolen weapon (whether from a family, neighbor, or random home invasion)

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Anybody who kills other than under a legal privilege (cop on duty, self defense, defense of others) is a criminal, so ALL of them are criminals. SOME Were criminals before the massacre, some were not. In terms of the school shootings, I would say ALL would fall under "not quite right".

Ah, now you want to play semantics? What happened with dealing with the mentally ill? You cant play both sides of that fence.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Which one was "both"?

Columbine, all legally purchased.

Sandy Hook, legally purchased.

Virginia Tech, Legally Puchased.

West Nickles Mines School, legally purchased.

Honestly, which killings were the result of stolen guns? And I dont mean stolen from family members who left the killer easy access.

Yes they were all legally purchased, in the case of Columbine, the adult girlfriend of one of the shooters bought two guns and turned them over to the shooters, so I would consider that a straw purchase, since it fits the definition.


Virginia Tech, legally purchased because Cho's mental illness record was sealed and therefore did not show up on the back ground check. Failure of the system.

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Anybody who kills other than under a legal privilege (cop on duty, self defense, defense of others) is a criminal, so ALL of them are criminals. SOME Were criminals before the massacre, some were not. In terms of the school shootings, I would say ALL would fall under "not quite right".

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Why is it that every time someone brings up eliminating guns as the answer they point to Australia.

After eliminating guns, did they not also have to eliminate swords, and are there not now regulations on knives?

How about another example of the opposite.

Israel, lax gun laws, lots of privately owned guns for its population and low gun crime rate.

Of course the biggest thing you have to worry about in Israel is the occasional suicide bomber on the street or on a bus, the incoming arty and rocket fire, and the possibility of a gas attack from a neighbor.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Anybody who kills other than under a legal privilege (cop on duty, self defense, defense of others) is a criminal, so ALL of them are criminals. SOME Were criminals before the massacre, some were not. In terms of the school shootings, I would say ALL would fall under "not quite right".

There are criminals who are not mentally ill.

There are mentally ill people who end up being criminal.

I would think the difference is apparent.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

guilty by reason of insanity.

Now, how many none insane criminals have attacked schools?

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Let's look at this from another perspective, shall we.

In 2011 the Unites States spent 695.7 billion dollars on defense, 58% of the world spending on defense to be exact. We are spending just about the same amount of our GDP as we did during the cold war. Who the fuck are we afraid of?

Say we cut that amount back to 300 Billion.

That frees 395.7 billion dollars for school security and enforcement of reasonable and workable (In reference to American Culture) gun control laws.

Now people, explain how to best use that money for the purposes I laid out.

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ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

guilty by reason of insanity.

Now, how many none insane criminals have attacked schools?

You tell me, as you are making that distinction.

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ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Why is it that every time someone brings up eliminating guns as the answer they point to Australia.

After eliminating guns, did they not also have to eliminate swords, and are there not now regulations on knives?

How about another example of the opposite.

Israel, lax gun laws, lots of privately owned guns for its population and low gun crime rate.

Of course the biggest thing you have to worry about in Israel is the occasional suicide bomber on the street or on a bus, the incoming arty and rocket fire, and the possibility of a gas attack from a neighbor.

It is because those in favor of banning/restricting guns here are reduced to "in Austraila..." and their own emotional sensibilities. They have no other card to play.