Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in our schools


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in our schools Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 12:39:27 PM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline
Has any entity done a study that shows what nationalities or races are more involved in ALL gun violence in proportion to their percentage of the general population? Or would trying to collect accurate data on something as serious as gun violence have to be dropped if the answers are not politically correct? Yeah, I know, with the exception of Virgiinia Tech, all the school killers were white. But unless you live in a sealed cave, you know that within a few years, over 50,000 Mexicans killed each other over drugs. And every day, we hear of gun killings in New Orleans, Chicago, Philiadelphia, Newark, New York, Detroit, Compton, etc. etc. To solve a problem, you have to know who and why are people killing.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 12:42:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And?


The thread is....

Lets get serious about gun control and safety in our schools

By your own admission....

Yeah, I know, with the exception of Virgiinia Tech, all the school killers were white.

Why are you dragging race into this?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to papassion)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 1:14:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Ah, but I could care less at this point if you and your buddies decide to re-enact the OK Corral. That is your decision. My point is... how do we keep these guns out of the hands of people who are mentally disturbed individuals?

One way is to fix out mental health system. Thats a given, and something we are working on with the Health Care Law.

The other is to limit access to such individuals.

Since the history of such individuals when it involves a school is that they got them from friends and family, it stands to reason we look at the measures those family and friends went through to

A) get them the guns if they purchased the guns for them

B) what measures did those people take to secure those guns from the family or friends who they knew had such problems

C) what laws did they circumvent

D) what liability should be assigned to those individuals





< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/18/2012 1:16:03 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 1:25:17 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ah, but I could care less at this point if you and your buddies decide to re-enact the OK Corral. That is your decision. My point is... how do we keep these guns out of the hands of people who are mentally disturbed individuals?

One way is to fix out mental health system. Thats a given, and something we are working on with the Health Care Law.



First and foremost, YES. this is what is always overlooked. Moreover, since limiting access failed and the past and mental health has not been adequately addressed, it stands to reason that before depriving innocent people of their Right and their property that the road not taken be travelled (and at a minumum be granted the same amount of travel time before the same tired fork.



quote:

The other is to limit access to such individuals.

Since the history of such individuals when it involves a school is that they got them from friends and family, it stands to reason we look at the measures those family and friends went through to

A) get them the guns if they purchased the guns for them

B) what measures did those people take to secure those guns from the family or friends who they knew had such problems

C) what laws did they circumvent

D) what liability should be assigned to those individuals





Yep. BTDT. And now we have weighing the deprivation against the potential solution it holds, and since we have experience in this it makes no sense.

At the MINIMUM, you don't go "screw it, we'll switch the ban on and make 'em prove it's useless"... you make 'em prove that not only is this not a repeat failure but you provide compelling evidence to reverse course on a failed tactic.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 1:32:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

First and foremost, YES. this is what is always overlooked. Moreover, since limiting access failed and the past and mental health has not been adequately addressed, it stands to reason that before depriving innocent people of their Right and their property that the road not taken be travelled (and at a minumum be granted the same amount of travel time before the same tired fork.


Now its my turn to be snarky, but I refuse.

There is a massive difference between limiting access to the general public, which is what was tried... and limiting access within YOUR OWN HOME.

Do you resent someone like me telling you to take responsibility for where you leave your weapons?

Are you willing to go on record and say that every gun owner locks his guns up tightly when they are not within their physical control?

Why are you so upset me with saying the following....

Every Gun Owner Should Take Responsibility For The Guns They Own.

I dont care what guns they are. Want a grenade launcher? Go buy one. But if someone steals it and dies as a result of your owning it and not securing it, then you should be held responsible.

If you cant secure it well enough, then you shouldnt own it.

I am sick of gun owners saying... well.. I cant control what someone does once they steal it.

Truth is..... PREVENT THEM FROM STEALING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE

quote:

Yep. BTDT. And now we have weighing the deprivation against the potential solution it holds, and since we have experience in this it makes no sense.

At the MINIMUM, you don't go "screw it, we'll switch the ban on and make 'em prove it's useless"... you make 'em prove that not only is this not a repeat failure but you provide compelling evidence to reverse course on a failed tactic.


I have REPEATEDLY said I am not in favor of banning any weapons.

What part of that arent you getting?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 1:43:18 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Are not the schools just one tiny facet of the whole US gun culture??

Safety in schools....
Severely reduce the availablity of the guns in the first place and the schools become much much safer.
That would also benefit the rest of the population away from the schools too.

And you'll also notice that most UK and Australian schools don't look like high security prisons with barbed wire, secure gates, and armed security guards.


You talk about gun control.... Where is it??
Those of us that don't live in gun-toting countries just don't really see much gun control in the US at all.
We all enjoy the benefits (yes, benefits) of very few, if any, guns in the general populace.
The US, unfortunately, can't see the wood for the trees and persist in maintaining out-dated laws that no longer fit or apply to today's western society.

Now that doesn't mean you can't have a gun or own a gun.
What severe restrictions do is to place the onus on you, the citizen, to prove the reason why you need any such a gun in the first place (and self-defense wouldn't count).
It would also restrict the type and number of such weapons you are able to legally have too.
Anything else you want to play with would have to remain at a gun club/range and you wouldn't be allowed to take any weapon off-site.

So that doesn't infringe on the 2nd at all.
So what's all the fuss about restrictions??


Pulp says "IN THE US THE BAN FAILED TO ELIMINATE SCHOOL AND PUBLIC MASSACRES. (Vegemite failed) "
And the reason for that was because it was only a half-hearted attempt at gun control and also had a limited life-span of just 10 years.
Nowhere in the US have they ever attempted to restrict guns to the extent that Australia did.

And further... "At the MINIMUM, you don't go "screw it, we'll switch the ban on and make 'em prove it's useless"... you make 'em prove that not only is this not a repeat failure but you provide compelling evidence to reverse course on a failed tactic. "

Other countries have proved beyond doubt that the bans worked.
You just don't want to acknowledge that plain and simple fact.

How do you think that laws are drawn up in the first place??
The lawmakers tend to draw on past experiences and ideas from other parts of the world.

You want to keep guns??
Fine. No skin off my nose coz I don't live there.
BUT... don't come wailing to the rest of the world when another Friday masacre happens again that could so easily have been avoided but for the stupid die-hard attitude asshats that are stuck in the Jesse James era.

And I can guaranfuckingtee it WILL happen again if they don't do something radical to stop it.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 1:45:26 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Again, I didnt say that, STOP strawmanning. And making ASSumptions
and PLEASE STOP using alcohol, cars, knives, broom handles, swords, ad nauseam because it is JUST Deflecting the issue with stupid.
Talk about using talking points. GUNS have no other use. When loaded they only serve as a tool to put bloody holes in living things and making people feel brave.
Stupid fucking analogies arent going to sway anyone.
I have many times been in favour of psychological testing, and mental healthcare.... the thing is people like YOU dont wanna go with universal health care or decent access to mental health care, or address poverty and social problems . Costs too much money to spend on people who dont want to help themselves.
You dont gotcha NOTHING except a bad case of the spins

had a talk with my guns today and the all promised to only punch holes in people who were trying to hurt me my family or my friends

This is just a question...but is a loon that talks to his guns an example of what is meant by "responsible gun owners" ?
Just asking

poor man didn't see my next post referring to a lack of humor on someone elses part, guess it applies to you as well

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 2:02:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Yes that could be why fox has been told they CANNOT discuss GUN CONTROL

Thats strange since they have discussed it every day this week.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 2:30:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		not quoting a certain poster so this response doesn't get deleted.

This is a list of US school shootings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

The Federal Assault Weapons ban went into effect on 9/13/1994 and ended on 9/13/2004
during that period there were 27 school shootings with 49 fatalities.
Since then (less than 10 years) there have been 15 school shootings with 78 fatalities.

So in 8 years we've had more than 50% more children and school staff killed.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 3:29:54 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The Federal Assault Weapons ban went into effect on 9/13/1994 and ended on 9/13/2004
during that period there were 27 school shootings with 49 fatalities.
Since then (less than 10 years) there have been 15 school shootings with 78 fatalities.

So in 8 years we've had more than 50% more children and school staff killed.

That is an insignificant number compared to the total population.

Assuming that the USA has a population of 300 million and that every year 1,2 percent die from whatever cause, then in eight years 8 x 3.6 million = 28,8 million people die from whatever causes. A mere 78 fatalities by school shootings during the same period is like a grain of sand in a fairly large sand dune.

What is all the uproar about?

As I have said before: Ignore the whole mess. Go fishing and catch a single fish. If everyone in the USA would do that, they would catch 300 million fish. That is time well spent.


< Message edited by Rule -- 12/18/2012 3:36:09 PM >

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 3:30:01 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline
quote:


<SNIP>
Now that doesn't mean you can't have a gun or own a gun.
What severe restrictions do is to place the onus on you, the citizen, to prove the reason why you need any such a gun in the first place (and self-defense wouldn't count).


But being wealthy and white would, right? The US tried that before the civil rights era, it was called 'may issue'... same sort of racist elitism used in other countries... Didn't work, any more than terra nullius did.

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 3:31:05 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You talk about gun control.... Where is it??
Those of us that don't live in gun-toting countries just don't really see much gun control in the US at all.
We all enjoy the benefits (yes, benefits) of very few, if any, guns in the general populace.
The US, unfortunately, can't see the wood for the trees and persist in maintaining out-dated laws that no longer fit or apply to today's western society.



First off, with the exception of the few individual gun owners with a concealed carry permit, the only people carrying guns on their person other than leo's are gang members and others that are involved in criminal activities.

Where I grew up, when I was a kid, it was not uncommon to see a rifle or shotgun in a gun rack in the back window of a pickup truck, no it is the rarity.

There are many states that have an open carry law, such as the one I live in, but I never see anyone with a gun on their hip.

It is these kinds of statements by foreign nationals that make it impossible for an American to take their advice seriously. It is as if you people think Americans openly carry guns 7 days a week 265 days a year.

The reality is that, for the most part, guns are secured in the homes of the owners, the only time they are not in the home is when they are in transit to a range or to a place where the owner is going hunting.

IN most states it is illegal to have a loaded gun in your vehicle unless you have a permit.

So quit making statements that make it sound like every fucking one of us is carrying a gun on their hip and it is Saturday night in Dodge City and we are looking to have a shoot out with anyone that cares to try us.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 4:02:46 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

First and foremost, YES. this is what is always overlooked. Moreover, since limiting access failed and the past and mental health has not been adequately addressed, it stands to reason that before depriving innocent people of their Right and their property that the road not taken be travelled (and at a minumum be granted the same amount of travel time before the same tired fork.


Now its my turn to be snarky, but I refuse.

There is a massive difference between limiting access to the general public, which is what was tried... and limiting access within YOUR OWN HOME.

Do you resent someone like me telling you to take responsibility for where you leave your weapons?

Are you willing to go on record and say that every gun owner locks his guns up tightly when they are not within their physical control?

Why are you so upset me with saying the following....

Every Gun Owner Should Take Responsibility For The Guns They Own.

I dont care what guns they are. Want a grenade launcher? Go buy one. But if someone steals it and dies as a result of your owning it and not securing it, then you should be held responsible.

If you cant secure it well enough, then you shouldnt own it.

I am sick of gun owners saying... well.. I cant control what someone does once they steal it.

Truth is..... PREVENT THEM FROM STEALING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE

quote:

Yep. BTDT. And now we have weighing the deprivation against the potential solution it holds, and since we have experience in this it makes no sense.

At the MINIMUM, you don't go "screw it, we'll switch the ban on and make 'em prove it's useless"... you make 'em prove that not only is this not a repeat failure but you provide compelling evidence to reverse course on a failed tactic.


I have REPEATEDLY said I am not in favor of banning any weapons.

What part of that arent you getting?


I never said you were in favor, and frankly, while you may not approve of my treatment of the same people who insist on arguing the same irrelevant point over again, I have been perfectly civil if not spirited with you and the OP.... BOTH of whom I am certain have a difference of opinion with me.

Case in point. I understand your point, I simply disagree with it. I feel the responsibility falls on the gun owners to lock their weapons from public access, whether that is a glove box, a safe or a house. YOU feel there must be some lock within a locked house. I disagree for the most part. we disagree. Big deal... move on.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 4:11:23 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

not quoting a certain poster so this response doesn't get deleted.

This is a list of US school shootings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

The Federal Assault Weapons ban went into effect on 9/13/1994 and ended on 9/13/2004
during that period there were 27 school shootings with 49 fatalities.
Since then (less than 10 years) there have been 15 school shootings with 78 fatalities.

So in 8 years we've had more than 50% more children and school staff killed.



Yes, and in 8 years we have had almost HALF the massacres. In other words, there is no conclusive showing you have made that suggests the situation is worse with the ban lifted.

More people died. Deaths are tragic, each and every one. However fewer incidents happened. Since I have not extensively studied the 42 shootings in question I will abstain from baseless speculation and argument about the instrumentalities, the opportunites, the way the school was set up, the police response(s) and all other variables that can be launched or distorted to further some point as to which period was in fact worse.

Frankly, I find that irrelevant. What I find relevant is that there is no significant effect or causative connection that can be drawn from these two eras to show one was worse than the other. In other words... an unacceptable amount of rampages happened while such things were banned... an unacceptable amount happened while they were not.

Thus, the problem is not whether these guns are legal to the public, as it happens independantly of the legality. The problem is something else, and most everybody is unwilling to look at it because they are consumed with reenstating the useless bans.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 4:21:34 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Case in point. I understand your point, I simply disagree with it. I feel the responsibility falls on the gun owners to lock their weapons from public access, whether that is a glove box, a safe or a house. YOU feel there must be some lock within a locked house. I disagree for the most part. we disagree. Big deal... move on.


A glove box? My nephew could jimmie that at age 8.

Locked house? How many people have had keys to your house? How many people come and go into your house while you, physically, arent home? If you have kids, bet its a lot.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 4:27:05 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		The father of the seven year old boy who died as his father tried to put his gun in the glove box last week, probably wishes he had put it in the trunk...or at least checked it was empty first

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 4:28:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		We need to redefine the term... secure... when it comes to guns in this country.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 4:34:21 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

not quoting a certain poster so this response doesn't get deleted.

This is a list of US school shootings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

The Federal Assault Weapons ban went into effect on 9/13/1994 and ended on 9/13/2004
during that period there were 27 school shootings with 49 fatalities.
Since then (less than 10 years) there have been 15 school shootings with 78 fatalities.

So in 8 years we've had more than 50% more children and school staff killed.



Yes, and in 8 years we have had almost HALF the massacres. In other words, there is no conclusive showing you have made that suggests the situation is worse with the ban lifted.

More people died. Deaths are tragic, each and every one. However fewer incidents happened. Since I have not extensively studied the 42 shootings in question I will abstain from baseless speculation and argument about the instrumentalities, the opportunites, the way the school was set up, the police response(s) and all other variables that can be launched or distorted to further some point as to which period was in fact worse.

Frankly, I find that irrelevant. What I find relevant is that there is no significant effect or causative connection that can be drawn from these two eras to show one was worse than the other. In other words... an unacceptable amount of rampages happened while such things were banned... an unacceptable amount happened while they were not.

Thus, the problem is not whether these guns are legal to the public, as it happens independantly of the legality. The problem is something else, and most everybody is unwilling to look at it because they are consumed with reenstating the useless bans.

More people died period.

A lot of that can be traced to the use of high capacity magazines that were illegal under the ban. Seems the ban worked.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 4:37:38 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You talk about gun control.... Where is it??
Those of us that don't live in gun-toting countries just don't really see much gun control in the US at all.
We all enjoy the benefits (yes, benefits) of very few, if any, guns in the general populace.
The US, unfortunately, can't see the wood for the trees and persist in maintaining out-dated laws that no longer fit or apply to today's western society.



First off, with the exception of the few individual gun owners with a concealed carry permit, the only people carrying guns on their person other than leo's are gang members and others that are involved in criminal activities.

Where I grew up, when I was a kid, it was not uncommon to see a rifle or shotgun in a gun rack in the back window of a pickup truck, no it is the rarity.

There are many states that have an open carry law, such as the one I live in, but I never see anyone with a gun on their hip.

It is these kinds of statements by foreign nationals that make it impossible for an American to take their advice seriously. It is as if you people think Americans openly carry guns 7 days a week 265 days a year.

I am not making that assumption at all and I have never said nor implied such.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
The reality is that, for the most part, guns are secured in the homes of the owners, the only time they are not in the home is when they are in transit to a range or to a place where the owner is going hunting.

And that is where the problem lies.

You, as a responsible gun owner, probably adhere to such common sense.
Sadly, such is not the case with many gun owners and it is these irresponsible ones that are the root of the problem.

Take the latest one in Newtown.
The guns were left, unattended, in the shooters' mums car and were obviously loaded or had the ammo conveniently close by.
This is so common, from I have been told, and why there are so many irresponsible gun owners.

Nobody is accusing anyone on these boards as being irresponsible; so it's not a personal attack.
The point of our argument is that there are far too many that are irresponsible and it is these circumstances that the killers are able to lay their hands on the weapons so easily and so wreak havoc.

The thrust of the argument is that if those guns weren't so readily available, it just wouldn't have happened the way it did. Period.

So until the US implement proper, strong, severely restrictive measures on gun ownership, it is going to happen again and again and again.
If you think what you have is restrictive enough - these incidents are just proof positive that the measures just aren't strong or restrictive enough.

Some of us have opined a solution but all I hear from you is to diss it out of hand without it even being tried. Let's face it, all other feeble attempts at so-called gun control has failed miserably so far. So the only alternative is something radical, very radical. And if you think that half-hearted effort in 1994 was tough, then I've got news for you - it was feeble - and that's why it didn't work. All bodge-jobs usually fail.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
IN most states it is illegal to have a loaded gun in your vehicle unless you have a permit.

That may be so.
But how many people actually break that law??

It's just like speed restrictions... many people break that law without thinking about it - either by ignorance or laziness, I don't know which.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
So quit making statements that make it sound like every fucking one of us is carrying a gun on their hip and it is Saturday night in Dodge City and we are looking to have a shoot out with anyone that cares to try us.

And where have any of us said that or implied such a situation??
We haven't.

You just like think that's the way we think about you lot.
And you couldn't be further from the truth.
I lived in the US for just over 8 months so I'm not talking as if I've never been there or seen anything except what they put on the TV. It's not a lifetime, I agree. But at least I have had a taste of the life over there (and not as a tourist) so I'm not completely talking out of my ass.

The problem is with all you pro-gun people is that you're shit-scared of trying something that's been tried and tested (and proved to work) but it means you gotta give up the majority of your toys - and you just can't stomach that idea so you diss it out of hand as not working.

As the old saying goes - don't knock it until you've tried it.
Proof of the pudding and all that.

I don't know if you can view this outside of the UK but Michael Bllomberg came out with some staggering figures - so this isn't just about a few school kids.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20764490
I would think ABC news might have a similar link that I can't watch here in the UK.


(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in ou... - 12/18/2012 4:43:19 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


More people died period.

A lot of that can be traced to the use of high capacity magazines that were illegal under the ban. Seems the ban worked.



Precisely the ill-formed speculation I made the effort to avoid and expected you to exploit.

So since you have made these statements suggesting factually that this could be traced to the use of high capacity mags that were illegal under the ban, am I to understand that you have studied the facts of all 42 of these incidents extensively and you are speaking from this research, or is it that you are talking out of your arse?


For example, do you know for a fact that the '94-'04 massacres had fewer casualties because they did not use high cap mags where as the '04 - on massacres did?

Do you know the cases well enough to rule out the variables such as more shooters were more inexperienced in the earlier shootings, or younger, or planned more poorly, or had more good fortune of more timely law enforcement intervention? I believe you haven't a clue and are blindly following the numbers to prove an ungrounded point.

Yes, I will agree that more deaths are worse than less deaths (even if fewer deaths came from more incidents) but what I will not agree to is that more deaths were DIRECTLY AND EXCLUSIVELY caused by hardware that was used in the later killings and not used in the earlier killings.

< Message edited by Pulpsmack -- 12/18/2012 4:44:19 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 140
Page:   <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Lets get serious about gun control and safety in our schools Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109