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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/2/2013 12:24:05 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

or people could just accept that they are on an ADULT site and that if they choose to act like a douch they will be called out on in. just like in real life. if someone doesn't like their crappy behaviour being noted to them they do have the ability to change their own behaviour. there is a difference between attacking someone personally, and telling them they are acting a certain way. moderators can also use their own judgement as to what is a personal attack, and what is just a comment on really poor behaviour. the behaviour is something the person has a choice about.

not all of us want to hit the report button. i mean how the hell do we all manage in real life without that button to hit everytime someone acts in such a manner?

the people in this site having been saying constantly that moderation is way over the top at the moment. this last lot of moderation is a prime example of it.

edited to add a couple of stray words

needles


The bits I bolded.......EXACTLY!!!!!

And people wonder why I liken the moderation to a nanny in a romper room.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to needlesandpins)
Profile   Post #: 261
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/2/2013 1:38:06 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

or people could just accept that they are on an ADULT site and that if they choose to act like a douch they will be called out on in. just like in real life. if someone doesn't like their crappy behaviour being noted to them they do have the ability to change their own behaviour. there is a difference between attacking someone personally, and telling them they are acting a certain way. moderators can also use their own judgement as to what is a personal attack, and what is just a comment on really poor behaviour. the behaviour is something the person has a choice about.

not all of us want to hit the report button. i mean how the hell do we all manage in real life without that button to hit everytime someone acts in such a manner?

the people in this site having been saying constantly that moderation is way over the top at the moment. this last lot of moderation is a prime example of it.

edited to add a couple of stray words

needles


The bits I bolded.......EXACTLY!!!!!

And people wonder why I liken the moderation to a nanny in a romper room.


I agree as well with the bolded. Very much.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 262
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/2/2013 5:33:44 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

not all of us want to hit the report button. i mean how the hell do we all manage in real life without that button to hit everytime someone acts in such a manner?


Crap, I thought that was what the on/off button was for on my remote control. I kept wondering why the person never shut up but my tv kept shutting off! I even called the cable company to tell them something was wrong with the cable but they assured me there wasn't. I thought maybe the gremlins came back to my home again.

I guess it's the mouse that scurried past my bed the other night that is eating the peanut butter and crackers that I keep leaving for the gremlins.

So someone, anyone...how do you get those real life people to shut the fuck up now that needles ruined my delusions.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 1/2/2013 5:35:33 PM >

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 263
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/2/2013 7:03:05 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

And people wonder why I liken the moderation to a nanny in a romper room.

Interesting image. I'm sure you've used it before, but I don't remember it. (That may well say more about my memory these days than about the image.)

Having spent years as a dedicated yard saler, followed by several tours at the helm of the parish rummage sale, I think of a forum as something of a "marketplace of ideas"--not, I note quickly, an original simile.

You can set up the sale the way many group-house dwellers do: everyone dumps his or her crap on the table or the ground, and folks have at it. That seems to be how FL works, but I'm not an expert.

I lean toward a more organized approach, both because I find it more satisfying and because you earn more. (I think I may still hold St. M's revenue record, but I'm not sure.) You sort the stuff into meaningful groupings: men's clothes, women's clothes, jewelry, etc.-- as CM does with its categories and subcategories and threads.

And then, you get ruthless. If you want to lure folks into parting with anything more than pocket change, you need to offer them decent stuff in decent shape. This is particularly true for an annual event hoping to build a following (or a forum hoping for repeat traffic). That means pitching an awful lot of crap. Indeed, one of my predecessors used to say, only half in jest, that one of the services we provided was trashing things that parishioners couldn't bring themselves to throw out at home.

To me, CM's moderators act a bit like good sale volunteers--weeding out the crap so that we have a chance to find the interesting, substantive thoughts that give a forum life and heft. When 2/3 of a thread consists of name-calling, reflexive snark, pissing matches over pointless details, and the like, the real content gets drowned out. Multiply this effect over any number of threads, and it's no surprise that many of our more interesting and insightful posters are now memories. (I suspect Gresham's Law drove out more people than XI ever did.)

I realize folks will differ over what constitutes "crap" and "content," and the lines are far from tidy. (Was Domiguy a comic genius or a jerk, for instance?) But I do think some effort at ensuring high-caliber "merchandise" makes sense in a "marketplace of ideas."

Ymmv, of course.


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/2/2013 7:06:36 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

To me, CM's moderators act a bit like good sale volunteers--weeding out the crap so that we have a chance to find the interesting, substantive thoughts that give a forum life and heft. When 2/3 of a thread consists of name-calling, reflexive snark, pissing matches over pointless details, and the like, the real content gets drowned out. Multiply this effect over any number of threads, and it's no surprise that many of our more interesting and insightful posters are now memories. (I suspect Gresham's Law drove out more people than XI ever did.)



I realize folks will differ over what constitutes "crap" and "content," and the lines are far from tidy. (Was Domiguy a comic genius or a jerk, for instance?) But I do think some effort at ensuring high-caliber "merchandise" makes sense in a "marketplace of ideas."

Ymmv, of course.


Thanks my dc cupcake.
How low do we want the message board to go?
Is the sewer low enough?
When it sinks to the fucking bottom/out of control, why not just watch Jerry Springer?


< Message edited by Marini -- 1/2/2013 7:12:30 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 265
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/2/2013 7:11:14 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

why not just watch Jerry Springer?

I know I'm playing to type here, but I'm more of a NewsHour and Charlie Rose kinda guy.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/2/2013 8:07:35 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

not all of us want to hit the report button. i mean how the hell do we all manage in real life without that button to hit everytime someone acts in such a manner?


Crap, I thought that was what the on/off button was for on my remote control. I kept wondering why the person never shut up but my tv kept shutting off! I even called the cable company to tell them something was wrong with the cable but they assured me there wasn't. I thought maybe the gremlins came back to my home again.

I guess it's the mouse that scurried past my bed the other night that is eating the peanut butter and crackers that I keep leaving for the gremlins.

So someone, anyone...how do you get those real life people to shut the fuck up now that needles ruined my delusions.


Roundhouse kick to the upper lip? Makes for a persuasive argument.

_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/2/2013 10:35:00 PM   
descrite


Posts: 459
Joined: 5/14/2012
Status: offline

From another angle:


I will not presume to know what everyone else was drawn to CM for. I wanted to find like-minded play partners for me and my sub-- that's what brought me to The Other Side Of The Site. The fora seemed like a natural outgrowth of that.

Fast-forward 6 (? 8?) months, and FetLife has garnered another play partner for us, and two more prospects (actuals, not possibles...both sites have offered the latter). Same profile, same content, same pics, same journal posts....vastly different results. FetLife also seems to have more direct plug-ins to the local scene, listing events that are both public and private, with classified ads between kinksters.

That site also seems to have message boards that involve topics and members who are just as informed, passionate, and dedicated as CM posters.

On CM, I have seen many, many more scammers and obviously-fake profiles (when two profiles are created with different usernames and the same photo within a span of four hours, the scammers aren't even trying anymore). CM is also exclusive in that it's the only site where I've received an introductory email, been propositioned, then have the other user's account deleted (or closed, or blocked) within the span of a week. This might be a manifestation of the scammers, but it is odd how it is particular to this site, and not other free sites.

But this site makes an interesting competition for kink/user attention.

(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 7:43:54 AM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline 		Does FetLife have a forum such as this? I'm not a member there but I like forums. On their front page they describe the site as a kinky Facebook. If they don't have a forum section like this format I probably would not be interested.

_____________________________

While is there no liberal talk radio? There are at least five conservative talk radio shows available over the air every day in the radio market I live in. Why does the liberal message fail to attract listeners?

(in reply to descrite)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 9:02:10 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thanks my dc cupcake.
How low do we want the message board to go?
Is the sewer low enough?
When it sinks to the fucking bottom/out of control, why not just watch Jerry Springer?



Actually, I am fine with Jerry Springer existing and I am fine with CM having sewage. Because you see, I can make the CHOICE to not watch Springer, or even any television at all. Just as I can choose to not read posts that I deem as sewage. Much of what gets posted in random stupidity and the political threads are MY IDEA of sewage. The humour section, to me, sewage. Hence, I don't read it.

I am an adult. I don't need a nanny to protect me from sewage. I can manage all by myself. It is unfortunate that so many seem to struggle with that concept. They would rather have a nanny to protect their delicate sensibilities.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/3/2013 9:03:10 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 12:06:18 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


I am an adult. I don't need a nanny to protect me from sewage. I can manage all by myself. It is unfortunate that so many seem to struggle with that concept. They would rather have a nanny to protect their delicate sensibilities.


I'm an adult, too. I don't need a nanny, either. But I DO like guidelines upheld which fosters some level of sewage removal - otherwise we just have "Hannah and her Sisters" all over again, spewing so much sewage in every thread that it isn't even worth coming here anymore.

I find it disappointing that those who prefer some moderation are slight-handedly being referred to as children who need nannies. Bummer.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 12:17:06 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		NV, I think the problem is the LEVEL of moderation.
I feel I'm pretty typical. I average a gold letter every 2-3 months.
There is one Mod who is inactive at this time who sometimes would send me 5 in ONE DAY. It turned out (I found by talking to others on the other side) that was this mod's typical output.
I would be told I was violating TOS and I'd read it cover to cover. No violation. I say something and all I hear is "Talk to Alpha". I once waited 4 weeks for a reply that route.

Ive never had a problem with the mods enforcing rules. What I and many others have is when they make the rules up as they go along.

I explained once. "Just because someone complains doesn't necessarily mean there's a violation. Some people are just whiny little bitches."

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 12:37:00 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Hey Hilly, I understand it's the level of moderation that some have a beef over, which is why I mentioned that in my post. I have never had the level of gold letters that you described, which is probably why I'm not relating to the nanny comments at all. That does seem like a very frustrating overkill, and probably accounts for the nanny sarcasm being expressed here. I agree a consistent balance would be best.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 273
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 12:37:56 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

It is heartcream that used the qualifier 'hatchet job,' not I.

I consider a hatchet job a series of responses from various users that attack the original poster personally, as opposed to merely disagreeing with his contentions or offering negative advice. By negative I mean, advice he/she didn't ask for or didn't want to hear.

I've seen brilliantly snarky hatchet jobs on moronic wanker troll OPs that I quite appreciated. But then, they were not posting to elicit a discussion, they were posting for some other, generally offensive, agenda.

Perhaps heartcream will return to give us a list of 'hatchet job' threads.


I've personally experienced admins deciding negative advice & personal were the same thing...apparently in the name of flying the "their kink isn't your kink doesn't give you the right to point out the logic failings of the arguement". Yes how dare I point out keeping someone chained in the basement for days is unsafe or female dominance doesn't mean sub tells her what to do & how to do it, or that intentionally eating tape worm eggs is a bad idea.

But hey what do know I'm ruining their fun with logic

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 12:44:50 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Hey Hilly, I understand it's the level of moderation that some have a beef over, which is why I mentioned that in my post. I have never had the level of gold letters that you described, which is probably why I'm not relating to the nanny comments at all. That does seem like a very frustrating overkill, and probably accounts for the nanny sarcasm being expressed here. I agree a consistent balance would be best.

That's where most of it is from. Just enforce the rules without making stuff up and if a thread that went bad is dead, don't dig back days or weeks and revitalize it by putting a Mod note at the end and thus returning it to the top of the roation and jumpstarting the drama all over again. (I call that scab picking)

Ive never asked for more or less. The MIQ (Mod in Question) is back on their feet as of a coupla days ago so we should prepare for another gold onslaught.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/3/2013 1:01:09 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 12:59:39 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
Suppose you had found out dark steven, ladyp were socks? That whole situation was like a civil war.

While I know they are just being used as what if...I would tell the person they are full of crap because I have looked both people in the eye, in person, myself.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 1:07:27 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Pretty much what HillWill has already written. Except, I've actually rarely gotten letters. Then again, I almost never log into the other side to know so......

My point, if a poster/s are writing offensive shit then people can block that poster. No one is forcing any of us to read anything here. As I said before, I see A LOT of stuff on this site that I find offensive. I don't go running to the babysitters to whine about it. I ignore it. If I were to have trouble disciplining myself enough to not bother reading the shit I find offensive aka sewage, then I would just put my particular 'hannahs' on block. Problem solved.

I still find it ridiculous that supposedly functioning adults that don't seem to require babysitting in their daily lives, feel the need to have it here. In as much as anyone is offended by my nanny remarks, I find it disappointing that people cannot discipline themselves enough to not feel the need for moderation. I choose what I read. I choose what I respond to. I choose how all of that affects me. I do not need anyone deciding any of that for me.

If you walk past a loud, rude person screaming obscenities in the grocery store parking lot, who do you go running to to save your delicate sensibilities/ears???

"Oh my god! We need a moderator to follow us around in our daily lives to save us from rudeness and crassness!!"

Seriously, is this what our society is coming to? That grown adults need their wittle feelings protected from anyone that might say something we find offensive??

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/3/2013 1:14:44 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 1:34:18 PM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		i also think that when mod's claim they have had numerous reports on a thread that they ought to take into consideration who actually made the complaints. is it the people actually contributing to the thread? or just someone that could actually click out of it and mind the own delicate self somewhere else. feeling defencive on another person's part is all well and good, but if you are then actually protecting the person starting the crap in the first place what good are you doing?

so someone in one of our running threads gets to make a comment against other members while doing something worse themselves, the worse thing is pointed out to them, and what their actions mean. this person is given the chance to modify their own behaviour, but chooses not to, and instead carries on being a douch. that person's remarks are left to offend while everyone else's are taken down. yeah, great going mod, you did a cracking upstanding job there. this mod considers the pointing out of the worse behaviour to be a personal attack, but not the crappy comments made to induce the pointing out of the behaviour in the first place. sorry but that really is screwed up logic.

and yeah when pointing out this screwed up logic to said mod i was told i could complain about it to alpha. when reading other people's experience on this.....and may i just point out that i was asked personally by alpha to monitor certain things with my accountand get back to her with my findings which i did. did i hear anything back? even a 'well thanks anyway'? no, nothing, not a word....all i can think is, like others, what's the point? so yeah. the moderation is over the top, lacks consistancy, doesn't seem to allow for common sence to be used, confuses the pointing out of poor behaviour with personal attack, and so on and so on.

needles

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I deserved better. Not than you, but from you.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 278
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 1:55:20 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Well, LaT, in a work environment I'm expected to behave a certain way toward coworkers and if I don't, others are well within their right to contact HR about it. When a coworker was sexually harassing me, I did just that. No my "wittle feelings" were not hurt, I simply used the tools that have been put in place for handling such issues, so I used them. Just like I would here, if I ever felt the need (which is extremely rare).

Hey I have no problem blocking people whom I think are uncivil. And I don't need to mock and insult to make my point. Why do you?

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/3/2013 2:11:51 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

i also think that when mod's claim they have had numerous reports on a thread that they ought to take into consideration who actually made the complaints. is it the people actually contributing to the thread? or just someone that could actually click out of it and mind the own delicate self somewhere else. feeling defencive on another person's part is all well and good, but if you are then actually protecting the person starting the crap in the first place what good are you doing?


I'd like to respond to this part, since I've done it - back in the Hannah days. I had them blocked after awhile, but that only meant I didn't see their posts on their own - I still saw when people quoted them, which was a lot. I mostly just avoided threads they were on as a result, but that meant avoiding a LOT of threads. I thought, why should I deny myself some pretty cool topics because of sewage I found offensive? So, on occasion, I'd report a thread full of "Fuck you, you cunt"s because I was totally frustrated that TOS could be so obviously and frequently violated like that.

I can't speak for others, but that's where I was coming from at the time.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to needlesandpins)
Profile   Post #: 280
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