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RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 3:55:56 AM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

I find mixed dogs tend to make better working dogs.

You get something called hybrid vigor when you cross breeds. I know it is true in agriculture but I see some posts on the net saying that hybrid vigor in dogs is a myth. I haven't researched to know one way or the other. If it isn't a myth, it would account for mix breeds making for more vigorous working dogs than the pedigrees they were breed from.

I have owned three pure breed Pits, and they were great dogs.

However, I have to admit, a hybrid does bring out some qualities that some pure breeds dont.

Presently I have a Siberian Husky/ Timber wolf hybrid. Her personality takes a bit getting used to, she only wants attention on her terms. She allows an older, smaller female dog to be the dominant female in the house. She does not like being around my 11 month old great nephew when he is active, but when he is sleeping she is never more than his arm's length away from him, and will come to get one of the adults in the house if he starts to stir or makes a sound.

When we give him a bath, she is nearby until after he is out, dressed and finished. If he is sitting quietly, like on the couch with one of us adults "watching" tv, she is laying on the floor at his feet.

Now our rat terrier allows Damian to use him as a pillow.

As for the rest of our 6 dogs, my Lab/Australian shepherd mix tries to get Damian to play ball with him, and the other three just hang around his height chair when he is eating since he actually hands bits of food to the dogs.

So far the only dogs that have growled at damian is the wolf/husky when he gets too close to her with his walkers, my chow/cocker spanial/ red healer when he tries to pet her (he has not mastered the gentle pat yet.) and the chow/terrier... usually because Damian just chases him around and wont let him snooze in the sun.

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RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 4:21:50 AM

MariaB

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My most memorable and missed dog is Alfie, a greyhound crossed with a border collie (Lurcher) He had the intelligence and stealth of the border collie and the speed of a greyhound. He had been bred by some traveling gypsies who rather than drown him (because they considered him the runt) they gave him to me. Unfortunately they wouldn't allow him to finish suckling and so I took this wee thing home and bottle fed him and kept him under my clothing to keep him warm.
Alfie grew to be a loyal friend who not only was an excellent shepherd but became a champion agility dog.

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Post #: 82

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 4:34:52 AM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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It has been my experience that the runts of the litter usually turn out to be some very good and intelligent dogs, and when they get their growth spurts, sometimes prove to be the biggest of their siblings.

I am sorry you lost your dog, I assumed he passed away. I have had that experience far too many times in my 52 years on this rock.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Post #: 83

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 10:41:46 AM

ServosCor

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RS.............. I do believe Petey was the first pit I 'fell in love with'. :) what that dog could do! THAT is what a pit should be like...a great family/kid's dog.

~servos cor~

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Post #: 84

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 10:45:29 AM

DesFIP

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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It took my first golden retriever to teach my daughter when young, not to put her hand down by her side with food in it. The dog couldn't figure out when she was being fed deliberately and when she wasn't. So after losing her lunch a few times, I finally convinced the kid to put the food back on the plate if she wasn't ready for another bite. Damien will learn.

Myself I've always been a golden retriever person. I like some other breeds but my heart always belongs to a golden.

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RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 10:52:57 AM

ServosCor

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Golden's are great family dogs. My ....ahemmmm.......'nephew' is a Golden. LOL I dont hold it against him :) My friend got him from the kennel who provided Disney w/ pups for the Buddies??? movies. Gorgeous gorgeous dogs! Dudley....my 'nephew'......is a magnificent representation of the breed.

~servos cor~

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Post #: 86

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 10:59:03 AM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
You get something called hybrid vigor when you cross breeds. I know it is true in agriculture but I see some posts on the net saying that hybrid vigor in dogs is a myth. I haven't researched to know one way or the other. If it isn't a myth, it would account for mix breeds making for more vigorous working dogs than the pedigrees they were bred from.

I would think that there has to be some truth to that, because some of the top working "breeds" now started as mix breed like the Queensland Heeler/Australian Cattle Dog/Border Collie and heck even Rhodesian Ridgebacks were a mix of breeds. Selective breeding has picked out the traits that we wish to be carried forward.

I will however warn everyone against breeding a Suffolk Punch draft horse to Shetland Pony. The resulting offspring named "Scrunch" was the meanest horse I'd ever seen and feet like frying pans.

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Post #: 87

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 10:59:37 AM

TNDommeK

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There are three dogs here, a pit, a yourkie, and of course my CoCo, a min pin. And the min pin runs the show. Poor pinky just lays there like a porch dog while the two ankle biters jump all on her head etc. lol. Now out of the three, I would fear CoCo the most. She is with out a doubt the meanest. At least pinky will let you pet her. CoCo is a BITCH! Lol

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Post #: 88

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 11:11:07 AM

lmpishlilhellcat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lmpishlilhellcat
When my aussie is about to get pissy with another dog his tail goes straight up and gets a little poofy. I know that should we have a baby that starts crawling or walking, he's gonna freak out. The herding instinct in him just can't handle it.

We had a brunch for about 40 people in our backyard, it included about 5 kids between 4-6. We had a screen tent set up to provide shade and for the most part the kids stayed inside of it.

Whenever they came out Raider kept herding them back inside. He'd bark and push with his head. It was funny because he had never done that before. I ended up putting him inside just to make sure no one got nipped.

My husband's niece just turned two. We were at his parents house for a family get together and she was toddling all over the place. My aussie kept grabbing the hood of her jacket every time she would get some speed to slow her down. Other than that he followed her around barking (ALL DAY). I think it stressed him out, but he's generally high strung anyways.

I will say this though. He is a serious little protector. My husband had him and our other dog out at the river trail. A very large mastiff mix charged my husband, knocked him down, and started trying to bite him. My little 40lb mini aussie turned into a tasmanian devil. He ripped that dog's face apart. Enough that my husband was able to kick the dog off. My jack/beagle while probably a good hunting dog, got a few licks in, but left things to her brother. I will say this I will never ever own another beagle. Every part of beagle in her drives me nuts! The baying, the sniffing, the chasing anything that moves. I love her, but she's damn hard headed and a little bit of a trouble maker.

< Message edited by lmpishlilhellcat -- 1/12/2013 11:14:12 AM >

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Post #: 89

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 11:58:13 AM

LafayetteLady

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From: Northern New Jersey
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My cousin has had pits for years, before that rots. They had to put down one pit because as he grew he had a bad temperment they couldn't control and he did bite someone. That, as most of us know, is the exception not the norm. Now they have a pit, Bentley, and a shitzu, Rico (Rico Suave in full, lol). Rico was there first and rules the roost. He jumps all over Bentley, nips at him and is, generally, your typical, hyper, little dog.

Bentley? He is beautiful and wicked smart. He was never taught how to fetch, but he does it. I smoke and when I go to visit, Bentley is all over me at the door, because he knows every time I step outside for a cig, I take him and we play fetch for a bit. When I tell him he dropped his stick too far away, he picks it up and brings it closer. When he finally broke one stick in his zeal at picking it up, I told him he needed to find a new one. He did. Mind you, I'm not indicating to him what to do, simply saying it in a normal voice. Wicked smart.

All dogs respond to how they are raised, trained and treated. Some dogs, like pits require a bit more patience and firmness in training. Just like some dogs, like Bentley require lots and I mean LOTS of excerise. I swear that dog has endless energy.

Personally, I have never owned a pit because I don't have the space or the time to properly train them or exercise one to the extent they need. But then again, that is why I don't have any dog at the moment. I have cats which require none of that.

Sure, people have bred dogs for fighting purposes, but it is the people who have raised them that make them that way, not the dogs themselves. I would never put my face in a dog's face, and firmly believe that no dog, not even some tiny little toy terrier should be left alone with babies. Not only for the child's safety but also the dogs. Children don't know at that age how to behave with a dog and typically is why they end up getting bit.

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Post #: 90

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 12:20:28 PM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Post #: 91

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 12:38:43 PM

ServosCor

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Lafayette Lady:
              You are so right in saying NO dog should be left alone w/ a small child.   Accident's happen. Even adults should exercise a bit more caution in approaching strange dogs. It irks the fire out of me to see the newer vet tech bend over and get in a dog's face. Some people do not seem to have any common sense at all.

                In all the years I've worked w/ dogs, I can only think of two instances where it truly was 'the dog's fault' when a bite occurred. My own accident happened when I felt too comfortable handling a very serious imported Rottweiler with a bad reputation for his breeding practices. I came out of his kennel with no front in my jeans, two punctures in the groin and 14 holes in my arm that suddenly looked like a pound of ground meat. My fault.
                Upon hearing of dog bites over the years, if the whole truth comes out..........the cause is generally human error.  Now granted, sometimes one really has to know dog psychology to understand how it 'wasn't' the fault of the dog. But, humans cause more problems for dogs than vice versa. If common sense were utilized more often there definately would be less dog bites.

< Message edited by ServosCor -- 1/12/2013 12:41:31 PM >

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Post #: 92

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 12:50:15 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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We have two dogs that we will leave with Damian, my 11 month old great nephew for a couple of minutes at a time.

One is a rat terrier that cuddles with Damian when he goes down for a nap or for the night.

The other is a Siberian Husky/Timber wolf hybrid that stays near Damian when he is sleeping. If he stirs in his sleep, she will actually come to the nearest adult and whimper until they get up and check on him.

The other four dogs in the house basically give Damian kisses in passing but do not hang around him for any length of time.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to ServosCor)

Post #: 93

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 1:50:13 PM

Duskypearls

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ServosCor

Lafayette Lady:
              You are so right in saying NO dog should be left alone w/ a small child.   Accident's happen. Even adults should exercise a bit more caution in approaching strange dogs. It irks the fire out of me to see the newer vet tech bend over and get in a dog's face. Some people do not seem to have any common sense at all.

                In all the years I've worked w/ dogs, I can only think of two instances where it truly was 'the dog's fault' when a bite occurred. My own accident happened when I felt too comfortable handling a very serious imported Rottweiler with a bad reputation for his breeding practices. I came out of his kennel with no front in my jeans, two punctures in the groin and 14 holes in my arm that suddenly looked like a pound of ground meat. My fault.
                Upon hearing of dog bites over the years, if the whole truth comes out..........the cause is generally human error.  Now granted, sometimes one really has to know dog psychology to understand how it 'wasn't' the fault of the dog. But, humans cause more problems for dogs than vice versa. If common sense were utilized more often there definately would be less dog bites.

You are ABSOLUTELY right about all of this ^^^^^^!

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Post #: 94

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 6:42:35 PM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Post #: 95

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 7:12:11 PM

Aynne88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

. . . when RS said 'cropped' is this what you were talking about?

if this is a surgical thing why would anyone do that to a dog? . . .

Yes, they chop the ears and tail in many breeds. You are asking a nation of silicone tits, face lifts, nose jobs and tummy tucks why someone would use cosmetic surgery? Short crop was for fighting. Less for opponent to chew on and they lose their ears in battle eventually anyway. Longer crops were fashion evolved from te function of a battle crop. It held true to the fighting breeds' look.

Even a cropped puppy is as cute as floppy eared one.

So? The dogs can't consent. We suck to continue to do this to animals in the name of breeding and appearance. I have really strong feelings on this obviously but it's ignorant.

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Post #: 96

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 7:18:10 PM

Aynne88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
An operation, even if done professional and with the right combination of meds and after care is always painful and uncomfortable. So doing it for no other than cosmetic reasons to an animal,who is not able to consent, is cruelty.

Jesus Christ I hope you are joking . . . you don't really believe that do you? I mean, if you have compassion and empathy for their ears and lack of choices, how do you feel about their enslavement without choice? Fuck the ears, that won't cramp their lifestyle or happiness nearly as much as being merchandize on display so that some asshole without any breed education can impulse buy it because they think the puppy is "pretty". They ought to give an IQ test to potential dog owners imo.

However, many of those that are educated about the breed and show the dogs do crop ears. What does that say about a cropping? Where does that fit in your biased logic? Should we feel sorry for dogs that are uncropped because of a high likelihood they are owned by an uneducated asshole that bought the dog on impulse instead of love for the breed? What does your biased empathy tell you to feel for those dogs?

Anyway, I hope the "not able to consent" logic doesn't lead you to randomly wander around cutting leashes and breaking fences to set all the unwilling pit bull doggy slaves free from their cruel ear cropping Masters that have been keeping them captive without consent. Foolish logic like that just won't fly here. There are some real dog lovers in this thread and there is a huge difference between a dog lover and some pet owner that knows nothing about the majesty of the breed or its history.

My dog is a cute floppy and uncropped. However, I feel no sadness or empathy for the majesty of the show animals and breeding stocks that are cropped. I don't look at those beautiful animals and think to myself, "now there is a case of animal cruelty". Instead I see dogs that are extremely well groomed, well cared for that lead a very healthy, happy and productive doggy life. If you see cruelty instead of the owner's love and care in these dogs, you do not have enough awareness to own an animal imo.

Really well those dogs that are shown are as you know intact, and lead to more breeding and more unwanted animals. Yes I work in animal rescue and I despise breeders and if every breeder had to work for a week in a shelter, rescue, or humane society and had to put down beautiful healthy animals that were abandoned or didn't meet breed standards and were culled, they might think differently. I doubt it though since it's all about the money. Fucking rabbit breeders are infamous for this, culling thousands of show rabbits that don't place and my friends in dog rescue say the same thing....it's a disgusting thing we do to these creatures.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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Post #: 97

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 7:34:49 PM

ServosCor

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   Aynne.........I do believe you to be an animal lover but I can tell you from experience by inferring people who breed quality working and show dogs are ignorant you do nothing to further the cause. You will simply end up pissing people off and they won't listen to anything you are trying to share with them.

Those who breed top quality dogs are not the problem. They seek the best homes for their pups, offer to buy them back or help to rehome them if/when needed and usually offer a lifetime of support to the new owners. You are talking about the backyard Joe Schmoe's who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to producing working stock/show dogs. They only know " my female's in heat and you gots a mail so lets bread 'em".

I see this all the time where I live and yes, it's sickening. But don't run down and insult people who truly care about their breed and their offspring. Remember, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I used to do the same thing. It never changed how folks treated their animals when I went off half cocked. Once I began offering my services to help train (pro bono if needed), educate the people on why they needed to spay/neuter they were much more receptive to my way of thinking.   And the animals ended up much better off.

           ~servos cor~

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
if you notice.. most breeds that are cropped or docked are working breeds.. these were done to prevent ear and tail injuries while the dog was working.. in some breeds, erect ears gave the dog a slight advantage for hearing too.

Cropping and docking, if done properly, are less painful than ear or tail injuries.

Cropping and docking is done at a young age.. if a dog suffers a serious tail or ear injury later in life, the animal needs to go thru surgury and have the limb amputated... its more painful, and the risks of complications and infections are higher

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Post #: 98

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 8:26:11 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ServosCor

I'd like to specifically address this post to DomKen & calamitysandra. 1. How many dogs have you personally had the ears done on? 2. What exactly was the dog's experience/ reactions after the surgical procedure and during the days that followed? 3. Have you personally spoken to veterinarians regarding this subject?

What do your questions have to do with whether unnecessary surgery is mutiliation that shouldn't be done?

My knowledge in this comes from helping my brother, who breeds show quality boxers ( a breed traditionally with cropped ears and docked tails). He never crops an ear and makes his buyers sign a contract forbidding it. He'd stop docking the tails as well if the breed standard didn't require it.

(in reply to ServosCor)

Post #: 99

RE: D Pearls got me thinking about pit puppies... - 1/12/2013 9:23:44 PM

ServosCor

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As you were so vehemently opposed to cropping I wanted to know how much first hand experience you have had with the care of the pup after the procedure. The care of the ear itself. What reactions did you note in the dogs you had hands on experience in dealing with after the procedure? And if you spoke to a qualified professional experienced in the correct way of not only the cropping, but the pain management & care of a cropped ear as well. Thats what my questions had to do with cropping.
     Your knowledge, you said, comes from helping your brother who doesn't crop. So I wonder, how many pups have you dealt with that have undergone the procedure. No doubt the first hand experience would be the way to form an educated opinion, correct? I'm simply trying to find out how you gained your knowledge that led to your being so opposed to the surgery.

                I refuse to open my mouth and make comments on subjects I have no first hand knowledge about. If I don't know about something, I found it best to keep quiet until I can research it and talk to those who DO know. That's all. :)

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 100

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