quote:

ORIGINAL: ServosCor

As you were so vehemently opposed to cropping I wanted to know how much first hand experience you have had with the care of the pup after the procedure.  The care of the ear itself.  What reactions did you note in the dogs you had hands on experience in dealing with after the procedure?  And if you spoke to a qualified professional experienced in the correct way of not only the cropping, but the pain management & care of a cropped ear as well.  Thats what my questions had to do with cropping.
    Your knowledge, you said, comes from helping your brother who doesn't crop.  So I wonder, how many pups have you dealt with that have undergone the procedure.  No doubt the first hand experience would be the way to form an educated opinion, correct?  I'm simply trying to find out how you gained your knowledge that led to your being so opposed to the surgery.
        
               I refuse to open my mouth and make comments on subjects I have no first hand knowledge about.  If I don't know about something, I found it best to keep quiet until I can research it and talk to those who DO know.  That's all.  :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lmpishlilhellcat

Pits haven't always been and aren't always bred to be fighting dogs. In the past pits have typically used as nanny dogs. And just because the dog has been used for fighting doesn't mean it can't be rehabilitated (just like humans). Most of the dogs MIchael Vick used were rehabilitated (47 were adopted) and several are currently used as therapy dogs at nursing homes and schools.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServosCor

  We all can identify with true cruelty.  Cruelty is dog fighting (disgusting imo), starvation, beating, kicking animals, throwing a tennis ball over and over in the middle of July in Florida to "condition" the dog until the dog went into heat strok and nearly died ( simply idiotic imo), putting 3 electric collars on dogs (neck, waist & under the tail) for the sake of competition (yes, I've seen this done).  Cruelty occurs every hour of every day.  Personally I think the bastards should be punished in a way that would give them good cause to NEVER so much as think of a cruel deed. 

     I do not believe cruelty has anything to do with breeders/owners electing to have surgery done on a dog's ears.  I don;'t like docking.  It's done in my beloved Dobermans daily.  I will never breed another litter so I dont have to make that decision.  Perhaps Ken if you had gone thru the cropping/healing process, spoken to vets about managing any pain w/ meds........well you just may have a different opinion on the process.  People are going to continue docking/cropping until it is illegal.  And then........assholes will take it upon themselves to do it without proper anesthesia or pain relief.  Now that is cruelty.  These backwoods yahooo's do this kind of crap all the time where I am.  In that instance .........cropping /docking is a henious act of unspeakable cruelty.  But not when it's done in the proper manner/qualified, experienced vet and loving owner.

      I'm not going to beat a dead horse over an issue that I know first hand is not cruel so this is my last post regarding this.  I just find it interesting that the folks who scream "cruelty" the loudest don't seem to have first hand knowledge on what really goes on during/after the procedure.

      Talk to me about cruelty if you wish.  Let me tell you about my white trash neighbors who have starved their animals, allowed pups to be killed when they foolishly dumped a bag of dog food in the yard to feed all the dogs; of course the two puppies were the ones who took the brunt of that violent fight and died.  Did I do anything?  Oh hell yes I did.  I think Im on a first name basis w/ the cruelty officers at this point.  I've called and called and they made visit after visit......the situation gets better for a week or so......then it's the same old thing.  THAT'S the cruelty we should be putting this energy into stopping.                      

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: lmpishlilhellcat

Pits haven't always been and aren't always bred to be fighting dogs. In the past pits have typically used as nanny dogs. And just because the dog has been used for fighting doesn't mean it can't be rehabilitated (just like humans). Most of the dogs MIchael Vick used were rehabilitated (47 were adopted) and several are currently used as therapy dogs at nursing homes and schools.

I know there are some do gooder small charities that actually believe this but sadly it isn't true and so before anyone who reads what you wrote and decides to rescue an ex fighter, its important to understand that not just any Pitbull can be trained as a fighting dog. The Pitbull is genetically selected to bring about a successful fighter. If a fighting team managed to steal you're Pitbull, they wouldn't use it as a fighting dog, they would use it as a baiting dog.
People who breed pet Pittbulls also use selective breeding. They breed from parents that show gentle traits. People who breed fighting dogs only breed from those dogs that have shown to continue battle even when its opponent is injured or being submissive. A normal dog typically accepts submissive signals from the loser in a fight and at this point fighting stops. Fighting dogs are not only genetically refined but are taught from an early age that killing is game with reward.
No matter how much rehabilitation you give such an animal, how can you ever trust it near another animal let alone a child? Its not just any old pitbull.
These breeders are continually fine tuning true fighting dogs... an aggressive animal that will chew the stomach out of another dog even when the other dogs laying half dead on the floor.
You can't remove these traits or rehabilitate these dogs because this animal is the progeny of its parents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lmpishlilhellcat

Um it's not just believed to be true. It's actually happening, they are being rehabilitated. They are being adopted into families with kids. Some of them are able to live in homes with other animals, some are not. I don't know how common dog fighting is in your area. But in my area it's huge. At least once a week I see stories on dog fighting rings. In my state it's so bad that they are passing two new laws on animal cruelty and fighting to deal with this. It's not just a few small good doing charities that are spreading this word. This is actually happening on a regular basis.

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Pits are dogs who want to please. Anyone who has ever owned one will know this. It's not just pits that fight either. You can train any dog to fight. Even if it is not bred to do so. You cannot blame this problem solely on breeding. It just doesn't even begin to cover the problem. The people that own these animals are just as much to blame.

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Just ONE example to prove a point.
http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2012/11/seven-survivors-of-michael-vicks-dog-fighting-ring-reunite-five-years-later/