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RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 6:46:10 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline 		There really isn't a significant enough price point difference between going to Starbucks and going to lunch to warrant that kind of hostility, IMO.

This is just me, but the difference between coffee and lunch for me is how much time I'm expecting to spend in The new face's company and how much I am expecting to enjoy it. Coffee is for those I am uncommitted about. If I don't like them I can quite politely leave once I've finished my drink in the average 10 min or less. Hell I can even opt not to get a drink. Lunch is a little more serious, being still a minimum commitment of 30 min if you were to go the fastfood route, and harder to get out of politely. Besides, who wants to share a full meal with someone whose company they don't enjoy?

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:22:18 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline 		I would not begin to judge this woman or her intentions without first knowing exactly what each of them said. There could be other reasons besides greed for her wanting to upgrade this rendezvous.

For instance, it is my position that two people meeting for the first time should do each other the courtesy of committing to at least as much time as they made each other drive. If I am more than just a few minutes away from someone, I generally will try to meet them in the middle. I figure that if I can commit to a 30 minute or longer drive, what is the big deal about committing to sit through lunch? This goes double for occasions where, for whatever reason, the guy has had to make a longer trip than I did.

< Message edited by Baroana -- 1/11/2013 7:23:44 PM >

(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:28:14 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline 		And now that I have perved the OP's profile and confirmed my suspicions that he does in fact reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, I must really emphasize my point about his outdated views on courting. My friend, you are in a region were sexist attitudes are not going to fly. Bring your way of thinking into the 21st century if you expect to be attractive to any local dominant women.

(in reply to EsotericLady)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:33:05 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		both parties should be prepared to pay....just in case one of them decides to duck out before the check arrives. It happens.


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:36:25 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

There really isn't a significant enough price point difference between going to Starbucks and going to lunch to warrant that kind of hostility, IMO.



I actually wasn't intending to be hostile, and didn't think I came across that way.

I'm figuring coffee for 2 = $10, add a couple scones....$15. Lunch for 2 in SF = $35+. I agree, $20 isn't significantly different, but might be more than someone would want to spend for a first meet.

I do hope it's a nice lunch and they hit it off and her intentions were different than my first impression. I agree there's no way to know without having actually been in their conversation. But...if I had to put money on it, well, I'd think the odds would be she expects him to pay. Just my gut feeling.


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(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:40:10 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

And now that I have perved the OP's profile and confirmed my suspicions that he does in fact reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, I must really emphasize my point about his outdated views on courting. My friend, you are in a region were sexist attitudes are not going to fly. Bring your way of thinking into the 21st century if you expect to be attractive to any local dominant women.

I grew up in the Bay Area and lived there into my 30's. Men asked me out and paid. Maybe he erred in referring to this as "protocol," but most of my friends had the same notion, as well. Yes, women have asked men out, but it wasn't the norm. I wouldn't fault him too much for that comment.

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(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:40:47 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

There really isn't a significant enough price point difference between going to Starbucks and going to lunch to warrant that kind of hostility, IMO.



I actually wasn't intending to be hostile, and didn't think I came across that way.

I'm figuring coffee for 2 = $10, add a couple scones....$15. Lunch for 2 in SF = $35+. I agree, $20 isn't significantly different, but might be more than someone would want to spend for a first meet.

I do hope it's a nice lunch and they hit it off and her intentions were different than my first impression. I agree there's no way to know without having actually been in their conversation. But...if I had to put money on it, well, I'd think the odds would be she expects him to pay. Just my gut feeling.




You could be right, and maybe she believes that a sub guy SHOULD buy lunch if he wants her time. I can't say she would be wrong for thinking that way, but in such a case she definitely should make it clear to him that she expects him to pay.


< Message edited by Baroana -- 1/11/2013 7:41:26 PM >

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:43:23 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

And now that I have perved the OP's profile and confirmed my suspicions that he does in fact reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, I must really emphasize my point about his outdated views on courting. My friend, you are in a region were sexist attitudes are not going to fly. Bring your way of thinking into the 21st century if you expect to be attractive to any local dominant women.

I grew up in the Bay Area and lived there into my 30's. Men asked me out and paid. Maybe he erred in referring to this as "protocol," but most of my friends had the same notion, as well. Yes, women have asked men out, but it wasn't the norm. I wouldn't fault him too much for that comment.



I grew up in the Bay Area too. When I said he was being a caveman, I was referencing his statement about protocol in the real world or whatever he called it. I certainly was not suggesting that no male in the Bay Area pays for lunch.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:43:31 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Anytime I've ever gone out on a date with a man, he has always paid. Then again, I've never asked a man out on a date and I'm traditional and old fashioned.


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:47:09 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

And now that I have perved the OP's profile and confirmed my suspicions that he does in fact reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, I must really emphasize my point about his outdated views on courting. My friend, you are in a region were sexist attitudes are not going to fly. Bring your way of thinking into the 21st century if you expect to be attractive to any local dominant women.

I grew up in the Bay Area and lived there into my 30's. Men asked me out and paid. Maybe he erred in referring to this as "protocol," but most of my friends had the same notion, as well. Yes, women have asked men out, but it wasn't the norm. I wouldn't fault him too much for that comment.



I grew up in the Bay Area too. When I said he was being a caveman, I was referencing his statement about protocol in the real world or whatever he called it. I certainly was not suggesting that no male in the Bay Area pays for lunch.

I know you weren't suggesting that. I said it was not the norm for women to ask men out. This may be why he said what he said. I'm in the Sacramento area now. At least in my circles, men ask women out far more than women asking men out (like in the Bay Area). That's likely why he made the mistake of calling it "protocol."

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 7:52:06 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline 		I suppose things are not quite equal in that regard, so you are correct there. It is still more normal for men to ask out women, at least as far as most of America is concerned. However, if a guy tries to state it as a rule that men ask, men choose, and men pay, then I think he is bound to ruffle some female feathers. Especially in the Bay Area.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 8:15:59 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		I expect the man to pay. I do pull my weight once I'm in a relationship, but him paying for the date goes with the traditional gender roles that I prefer.

If I don't think there's much relationship potential, I'll suggest Starbucks. If I think there is, lunch or dinner. If lots, I'll cook for him.

I had some marvelous three hour lunches with J last summer...too bad about his pesky dead-end live-in relationship that hadn't ended yet. J chose the first place, but then wanted me to chose as he was too busy. Too bad he was also too busy to date.

In general, I like the bigger foodie to chose.



< Message edited by kalikshama -- 1/11/2013 8:18:06 PM >

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(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 8:35:52 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

I suppose things are not quite equal in that regard, so you are correct there. It is still more normal for men to ask out women, at least as far as most of America is concerned. However, if a guy tries to state it as a rule that men ask, men choose, and men pay, then I think he is bound to ruffle some female feathers. Especially in the Bay Area.

I know, which is a shame for them. They're raised to be "gentlemen" and pay, and then get berated when trying to

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 8:49:00 PM   
MAINEiacMISTRESS


Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subinsilicon

All I know is the protocol in the real world - which is basically, for the first date, the guy asks, the guy chooses, the guy pays.
I realize today there are no hard-and-fast rules, but I ask in the fet world if the protocol is different for a new sub who never did this before.

Case in point is that I cyber met a Domme here on CM who approached me and who taught me how to address her and how to respond to her and she disagreed with my suggestion of coffee saying lunch was more appropriate and then she asked what I like to eat in order for her to pick the time and place.

All fine with me - as I like her being in control of the decisions - but - let me know, in the fet world, who's supposed to pay.

Bear in mind I have never subbed in my life in real time, so, I am unsure of protocols.
I'm sure they vary - but is there a norm?


As for DATING, vanilla only, I have always invited, and I have always paid...at the very least for My own meal, but quite often for his as well. Then again, traditionally I have usually EARNED more than he. I feel it's only natural the person with more money should pay. If you are not happy with that rule, then whomever INVITES should pay... or split it with one person paying for dinner, the other person paying for the movie tickets & popcorn. I don't adhere to "the man should always pay" idea...if the woman becomes DEPENDENT on him to pay, or he INSISTS she's not allowed to pay due to "gender rules" it gives him power over her that I find offensive. I'm not a "kept woman". I've been a business owner most of My life and am accustomed to making the decisions.

As for lunch (not a *date*) with a sub, unless I'm specifically TREATING him to the meal (his birthday or a celebration of accomplishment), I think the sub paying is the proper thing to do, at the very least to reemburse Me for My time/gas to drive there (half hour to an hour and a half depending where we meet), and to show his appreciation for the effort I put into our D/s relationship. I'm also not an expensive eater, I rarely order the most expensive thing on the menu (lobster is cheaply had anywhere here in Maine---currently $5.50 lb btw---so I think it's rediculous to order it in a restaurant, but the baby back ribs are one of My personal favorites). I actually care more about quality time spent with My friend than what's on the menu. In other words, lunch with Me won't bring about My sub's financial ruin. LOL.

(in reply to subinsilicon)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 9:00:23 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

There really isn't a significant enough price point difference between going to Starbucks and going to lunch to warrant that kind of hostility, IMO.



I actually wasn't intending to be hostile, and didn't think I came across that way.

I'm figuring coffee for 2 = $10, add a couple scones....$15. Lunch for 2 in SF = $35+. I agree, $20 isn't significantly different, but might be more than someone would want to spend for a first meet.

I do hope it's a nice lunch and they hit it off and her intentions were different than my first impression. I agree there's no way to know without having actually been in their conversation. But...if I had to put money on it, well, I'd think the odds would be she expects him to pay. Just my gut feeling.




You could be right, and maybe she believes that a sub guy SHOULD buy lunch if he wants her time. I can't say she would be wrong for thinking that way, but in such a case she definitely should make it clear to him that she expects him to pay.


Hi Barona, I think I missed this post before. That's along the lines I was thinking - that she'd expect him to pay since he's the sub. I do agree she should make that clear.

Edited to add: Not that I'm of the belief a sub should pay for the dom/me's time. I did not even consider paying when the Mister arranged for our dinner, but then we had been talking for a couple of months already and both of us felt we were on our way to creating a relationship. He picked the spot, we met, he paid. He still always pays, except for the times I ask to, when I want to treat him.



< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 1/11/2013 9:03:10 PM >

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(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/11/2013 10:53:01 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I liked when Master chose the restaurant and he even ordered all the food and paid. It was nice for a change to be with a man who is so extremely knowledgeable, gentlemanly, has manners, knows etiquette and is gracious. For me it was a wonderful moment to have a man with such traditional values and knew how to seduce and sweep a woman off her feet and more.

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(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/12/2013 5:02:55 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		A dom asked me out once for a drink and wanted to split the cost of a bottle of wine he wanted with me. Although I went prepared to go dutch, but ya can be sure, that makes him friend-zoned and we weren't gonna play.
It's one of those things, if I am not interested in a man, even in the vanilla world, I would refuse to let him pay for me to keep things on friendship level. But when I let a man pay for me, it means I'm interested.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/12/2013 5:06:28 AM >

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/12/2013 5:33:05 AM   
seekingOwnertoo


Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subinsilicon

All fine with me - as I like her being in control of the decisions - but - let me know, in the fet world, who's supposed to pay.




Always assume that you are! And plan to, unless told otherwise.

Myself, I have been asked out by Dommes who want to pick the time, place and location. It is a control thing ... but I cannot think of a single time that I, as the submissive, did NOT pick up the tab on the first date(s)! (note plural)

Doesn't matter what Her income is, or Her profession. She still will appreciate you doing so ... perhaps even expect it. Many Women see this as being chivilrous.

However, She may wish to pick it up ... if so ... she will tell you when the check comes ... and you make the move to pick it up. Then, graciously accept it and submit to Her wishes.

Who pays on the first date is one custom that seldom changes .... ... regardless of lifestyle and fethishes.


(in reply to subinsilicon)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/12/2013 5:57:43 AM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

And now that I have perved the OP's profile and confirmed my suspicions that he does in fact reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, I must really emphasize my point about his outdated views on courting. My friend, you are in a region were sexist attitudes are not going to fly. Bring your way of thinking into the 21st century if you expect to be attractive to any local dominant women.

This is a problem only if she's on CM & doesn't know how to read the forums. Personally if I saw something like this from someone I was considering the bill would not be an issue because I wouldn't be there!!

< Message edited by theRose4U -- 1/12/2013 5:58:41 AM >

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(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Protocol question: When a Domme asks a sub to go ou... - 1/12/2013 9:32:21 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Ask her.

However, if you can't buy a ten dollar meal for someone without it being a major hardship, then you should be focusing not on relationships but in becoming more stable for your own sake.

With that said, most women would object to someone demanding dutch for something minor like this. That demanding she pay half will get you the money but it won't get you a second date.

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(in reply to EsotericLady)
Profile   Post #: 40
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