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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:04:03 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I've never claimed differently.


I never said you did.

First the Brits and then the US have always meddled, manipulated, bombed, duoble dealed and back stabbed and supported brutal despots in the ME while both supported the theft of Arab land. The generations of conflict and all the mounting casulties can be put squarely down to the west and its attempts to control other people's resources. Blaming the resulting chaos in the middle east on something intrinsic to Arab culture is simply a shirking of westen responsibility in creating the chaos in the first place.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:08:11 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
I don't see how his quotes are equivalent to morsi's.

Yep and its fair to say the Arabs started a trend of genocidal hate-speech. Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's secretary-general, said that the establishment of Israel would lead to "a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades." Then loadsa Arab nations invaded. Israeli leaders made harsh statements said mainly said in times of Intifada or war. Morsi spoke during a long peace between the states. I see loadsa awful Israeli quotes but many appear to be dubious at best.



Revisionism. The conflict had already begun before he was out of diapers and his concern was more about freeing the Arab world from the Ottomans and preventing the west planting a cuckoo state in the midst of the arab world. He was in reality against Western imperialism succeeding Ottoman imperialism in the arab world.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 1/14/2013 7:10:18 AM >

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:17:04 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
I don't see how his quotes are equivalent to morsi's.

Yep true and its right to say the Arabs started a trend of genocidal speech. Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's secretary-general, said that the establishment of Israel would lead to "a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades." Then loadsa Arab nations invaded. lol Israeli leaders made harsh statements said often in times of Intifada or war but Morsi spoke during a long peace between those states. I see loadsa awful Israeli quotes but many appear to be dubious at best.

Revisionism. The conflict had already begun before he was out of diapers and his concern was more about freeing the Arab world from the Ottomans and preventing the west planting a cuckoo state in the midst of the arab world. He was in reality against Western imperialism succeeding Ottoman imperialism in the arab world.

ROFL! I guess understanding the words a "war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades" is as nuanced a process as trying to interpret the bible. The Ottomans were long gone a fishin' by dat stage Bubba!

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 1/14/2013 7:28:55 AM >

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:27:47 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

ROFL! I guess understanding the words "war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades" is as nuanced a process as trying to interpret the bible. The Ottomans were long gone a fishin' by dat stage Bubba!


Arab rhetoric has always been full of hyperbole even when it is concerning love poetry, it is part of the cultural misunderstanding which has always played into their western enemies hands. The Arabs have proved naive when it comes to propaganda, that I admit.

The Ottoman empire dissolved in 1918, the conflict began some 30-40 years before that so your poiint is?


< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 1/14/2013 7:29:01 AM >

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:41:10 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
ROFL! I guess understanding the words "war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades" is as nuanced a process as trying to interpret the bible. The Ottomans were long gone a fishin' by dat stage Bubba!

Arab rhetoric has always been full of hyperbole even when it is concerning love poetry, it is part of the cultural misunderstanding which has always played into their western enemies hands. The Arabs have proved naive when it comes to propaganda, that I admit.

The Ottoman empire dissolved in 1918, the conflict began some 30-40 years before that so your poiint is?

Yep and I guess all those Islamist terrorists have just been having one big ole cultural misunderstandin' too... LOL

The statement was made in '47 so I don't know know why you brought up the Ottoman Empire.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 1/14/2013 7:44:17 AM >

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:43:13 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh


The statement was made in '47 so I don't know why you brought up the Ottoman Empire


Since when has the Arab league been a cohesive force and had authority over the Arab world or even one Arab country?

Never.

Actually, if the President of the EU made a statement regarding the opinion of Europeans, Europeans would fall around pissing themselves with laughter and the EU has more influence over the European world than the Arab league ever had over the Arab world.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 1/14/2013 7:47:47 AM >

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:49:18 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I guess in your world as long as someone else did it first, it's all good. We wouldn't want to hold anyone responsible for the hateful shit they say.


Don't tell me, you are a good christian who turns the other cheek when your home and lands are stolen?

Arabs have every right to consider the west and its allies as double dealing, two faced back stabbing shits.


what does any of that have to do with excusing an asshole because someone else was an asshole first?

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:49:49 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
The statement was made in '47 so I don't know why you brought up the Ottoman Empire

Since when has the Arab league been a cohesive force and had authority over the Arab world or even one Arab country?

Never.

LOL revisionism much? Its funny then how an Arab coalition from quite a few countries invaded the next year. The Arab League didn't control countries but it was still a very influential entity. You're just inventing shit so I think we are done bud.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:52:07 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

what does any of that have to do with excusing an asshole because someone else was an asshole first?


Because quoting an asshole out of context of what they are being an asshole about, is legitimising the assholes that are not mentioned Duh!

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 7:54:10 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

LOL revisionism much? Its funny then how an Arab coalition from quite a few countries invaded the next year. The Arab League didn't control countries but it was still a very influential entity. You're just inventing shit so I think we are done bud.


ROFL!!!!! The Arab League influential!!!!!

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 8:09:37 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		I like Jews, have even considered converting, if I had to choose between saving Israel and the arabs, it would be Israel

That said, Israel was founded by terrorists, is racists as fuck, its policies about Gaza remind me of the Germans about the Waraw Ghetto.

As for overblown hyperboly, that isnt exactlu the mother of all insults.

Lastly, worrying about the Egyptian presidents words shows a deep.lack of understanding of who holds power in Egypt.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 8:42:22 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Strategic interesest of corporate america do no mean what is best for us as a nation...

The above quote is from a post you made in another thread, but it goes directly to the intended focus of this one -- at least, it does if you'll accept me reading the phrase "U.S. strategic interests" in one of the original quotes as the "strategic interests of corporate America" (not actually, needless to say, but as a practical matter that seems to be the state of things). The thread has gone off in another direction, probably because I didn't make clear what I was blinking about. The question I actually wanted to raise was: What "strategic interests" are being served by arming Egypt with F-16 aircraft and M1A1 Abrams tanks?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/14/2013 8:49:00 AM >

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 8:48:56 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I like Jews, have even considered converting, if I had to choose between saving Israel and the arabs, it would be Israel

That said, Israel was founded by terrorists, is racists as fuck, its policies about Gaza remind me of the Germans about the Waraw Ghetto.

As for overblown hyperboly, that isnt exactlu the mother of all insults.

Lastly, worrying about the Egyptian presidents words shows a deep.lack of understanding of who holds power in Egypt.


I'd go along with all that apart from the first point because I don't believe in God, Yahweh or Allah or any religion especially any of the cancerous religions where people claim to know the mind of their infernal wrathful gods.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 8:52:02 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
What "strategic interests" are being served by arming Egypt with F-16 aircraft and M1A1 Abrams tanks?

K.[/font][/size]


The US needs an allie in the oil rich middle east, any allie. It would also put Egypt firmly in the US-Israeli camp. It doesn't really matter if the Egytian president blows off a time or two as long as it remains rhetoric. Sooner or later there is going to be a war with Iran because that seems to be the way Obama is going with his choice of advisors.


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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 8:54:47 AM   
SimplyMichael


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The military runs egypt. Generals get bribed. Defense contractors make billions. Puts pressure on Israel we can,use to,either sell more weapons and or kiss our ass more. The military runs egypt.

Carter had it right. He tried to stop the selling of front line equipment to anyone outside of real allies like Nato. Another great idea fucked up by reagan. As an aside, the aircraft created for foriegn sales by Northrop, the f20 embarrassed the air force deeply because it nearly matched and,in,some important,ways beat the,F16 for a fraction of the price.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 9:00:44 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Carter had it right. He tried to stop the selling of front line equipment to anyone outside of real allies like Nato.

Yes, that is precisely my thought here... particularly with regard to the M1A1 Abrams, the F-16 not so much.

K.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 11:37:37 AM   
vincentML


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Allegedly, we will emerge soon as the top producer of oil in the world. So, that will be off the table as a strategic interest.

It seems we are caught up in an endless war on "terrorism."

In the cause of "anti-terrorism" Mali is the eighth nation in which Western powers have killed Muslims in the last four years:

after Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Somalia and the Phillipines (that does not count the numerous lethal tyrannies propped up by the west in that region). For obvious reasons, the rhetoric that the west is not at war with the Islamic world grows increasingly hollow with each new expansion of this militarism

The bombing of Mali highlights all the lessons of western intervention

If the United States has a coherent strategic interest it is kept hidden from us until after an excuse is needed for an action taken. Our strategic interests vary with the groups of influence. The neocons, who want to export western democracy, are rallying around John McCain. Obama, who wishes to pursue a stealth strategy with drones and special ops, has called on Chuck Hagel. Our strategic interest is a bouncing ball.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 11:43:06 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

~FR~

Allegedly, we will emerge soon as the top producer of oil in the world. So, that will be off the table as a strategic interest.


Not until we use less than we can produce. Preferrably that should be a LOT less so we can save it for future generations to use. it will run out eventually but I'd as soon see that in a few millenia instead of a few generations.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 12:09:06 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Easy solution to the problem in a few steps:

1) teach every american that owns a car how to make biodiesel and ethonol fuel for their vehicles.
2) Get Ashjor out of Syria.
3) Nuke the entire middle east, friend and foe alike.
4) watch the world go down the toilet.

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RE: U.S. Strategic Interests - 1/14/2013 6:07:08 PM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


The military runs egypt. Generals get bribed. Defense contractors make billions. Puts pressure on Israel we can,use to,either sell more weapons and or kiss our ass more. The military runs egypt.

Carter had it right. He tried to stop the selling of front line equipment to anyone outside of real allies like Nato. Another great idea fucked up by reagan. As an aside, the aircraft created for foriegn sales by Northrop, the f20 embarrassed the air force deeply because it nearly matched and,in,some important,ways beat the,F16 for a fraction of the price.


FYI the F 20 was nothing more than an upgraded F-5, in fact at first it was called the F-5G. Granted the F-20 could carry a few type of missles that the F-16 could not, most notiably the AIM-7, however that was corrected. The only thing the F 20 was consider for was to be used as an "aggressor aircraft". The only country that had any interest in the F-20 was South Korea but after a scandal the F-20 was dropped.

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