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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 7:14:19 AM

Powergamz1

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So are Kleibold and Harris and the rest alive? Are there absolutely zero number of cases where a suicidal person contructed a situation where they would end up dead after killing others?

Of course not, in fact many of these spree killings are part of the epidemic of suicides especially among that demographic.

I don't think you are talking about the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Are you once again trolling?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Are we now trying to equate suicide with mass killings? That is pure nonsense.

No, I was responding to various posts that seemed to imply a person killing themselves was equal to a person killing a bunch of people before killing themselves. It isnt, not by any stretch of the imagination.

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 1/25/2013 7:37:44 AM >

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 8:44:36 AM

theshytype

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FR

The NIMH estimates about 1 in 17 people in the US to have a serious mental illness. Quickly labeling mental illness as the cause of the shooters could potentially, IMO, cause a negative backlash of society's view on people suffering from mental illness.

I do believe shooters can be sociopaths or having personality disorders, which are mental illnesses, but generally are different in that they do tend to think rationally in their eyes. Sociopaths believe their logic to be correct. So I don't agree with labeling it as a fantasy. It may very well be reality to these people.
I do believe they are seeking a form of fame, hey look what I'm capable of, and seeking revenge, as sociopaths tend to blame people.

There seems to be little known regarding the mental health of all the shooters, some may or may not have some form of mental illness. Researchers have little clue regarding any common factors between the shooters and are not quick to label, which I strongly agree with.

From what I have read, it appears gun violence in general has actually gone down in the US. But, mass shootings appear to have gone up. This would lead me to believe that some form of fame-seeking is involved with some shooters.

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 12:16:32 PM

vincentML

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quote:

The NIMH estimates about 1 in 17 people in the US to have a serious mental illness. Quickly labeling mental illness as the cause of the shooters could potentially, IMO, cause a negative backlash of society's view on people suffering from mental illness.

Or it might lead to serious research.

quote:

I do believe shooters can be sociopaths or having personality disorders, which are mental illnesses, but generally are different in that they do tend to think rationally in their eyes. Sociopaths believe their logic to be correct. So I don't agree with labeling it as a fantasy. It may very well be reality to these people.

If it reality to them but it is not truly reality then it is fantasy.

And, why limit the possible mental distress diagnosis to sociopaths? Are sociopaths bent on taking their own lives? I don't think so. Practically all of the recent spree killers in the US committed suicide.

There is something darker involved.

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 2:10:47 PM

theshytype

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I'm sorry, was I limiting them to sociopaths? I thought I was pretty clear in my thought process in that I don't believe all can be labeled as having the same issues. A few posts have read, however, as though all shooters had depression and that none of them were acting rationally.

Not all of them committed suicide and for the ones that have, are you assuming all suicides were purely due to depression? Isn't it a possibility that suicide was an escape plan for some? And isn't is possible for sociopaths to also have depression?

My main point was, I believe them to all be different with different motivations and fame probably was for some...as the OP was asking.

As far as your last line, I'm not sure how much darker you can get unless your referring to the devils handiwork. In which case, I'm not extremely religious and is a whole different topic.

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 2:36:09 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
If they're going anyway, why not?
Just look at the dead junkie out of Nirvana: would anybody still give a toss about him or his band if he hadn't used buckshot to drain his sinuses? There are plenty of idiots who'd rather die a "legend" than live in obscurity, and they aren't all mass murderers.

While I wasn't a fan Cobain was actually rather famous before he offed himself and to my knowledge he wasn't a mass killer. Comparing Cobain's motivation for killing only himself to Adam Lanza's reasons for Sandy Hook... that's such an irrelevant stretch I'm not even going attempt to decode it.

Cobain's career was over when he blew his head off: In Utero didn't start selling until he killed himself.
No cunt would have heard of Adam Lanza if he hadn't stacked up a bit of collateral damage killing himself.
Is the connection not apparent?

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 2:40:05 PM

mnottertail

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Yeah, Courtney Love would have been just another skanky cocksucker if he didn't take the trip. Now, she is a famous skanky cocksucker.....

Which isn't the worst thing in the world.

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 2:51:24 PM

Phoenixpower

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I do believe that for some people it is the kick of this sort of "fame"....

At my work with challenging kids in the past we also had the common phrase in that field at times "better negative attention than no attention at all" and which comes to my mind at times when they report afterwards that the person who did it was a loner/outsider or however you name it your country...

Personally I believe, that sometimes media also goes far too much into detail about such stuff....as I think, they don't need to put in more potential ideas into people who are about to go onto such a path, nor do we as a public really need to know all such grim details....though that's just my view....but I think keeping those news on a smaller scale wouldn't be a bad thing....but then...of course, I am not someone who makes money with such news...

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 3:25:55 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, Courtney Love would have been just another skanky cocksucker if he didn't take the trip. Now, she is a famous skanky cocksucker.....

Which isn't the worst thing in the world.

I reckon she gets a rough ride from the sort of cretinous little fuckwit in a plaid shirt and his mother's cellar who wishes he'd been married to the dead junkie instead of her: sure she's an attention seeking cunt but she still kept him alive for a good eighteen months longer than he would have lasted with Mary Lou Lord or Kathleen Hanna...

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 5:40:13 PM

littlewonder

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I think those shooters are doing it because they have anger management and mental problems and they cannot control themselves. I think it's the copycats afterwards who do it for fame, notoriety, attention.

ETA: I think a lot who commit suicide afterwards, it's not always something they had planned to do. It's after they have done the deed, they now have to contend with what they have done and they realize now what they have done and the only "out" they can see is suicide.

Having dealt with those with anger and mental issues, that has been my experience after their anger has subsided and/or they have done something violently and now they have to deal with the repercussion. They break down, they don't know what to do so they punish themselves and feel as if they don't belong anywhere so the only out is suicide.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 1/25/2013 5:45:50 PM >

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/25/2013 11:29:52 PM

LadyPact

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I am so glad that other people found this an interesting thought to discuss. Before we go too much further, I would very much like to thank everyone for their participation. I have appreciated your thoughts on this thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype

FR

The NIMH estimates about 1 in 17 people in the US to have a serious mental illness. Quickly labeling mental illness as the cause of the shooters could potentially, IMO, cause a negative backlash of society's view on people suffering from mental illness.

I do believe shooters can be sociopaths or having personality disorders, which are mental illnesses, but generally are different in that they do tend to think rationally in their eyes. Sociopaths believe their logic to be correct. So I don't agree with labeling it as a fantasy. It may very well be reality to these people.
I do believe they are seeking a form of fame, hey look what I'm capable of, and seeking revenge, as sociopaths tend to blame people.

There seems to be little known regarding the mental health of all the shooters, some may or may not have some form of mental illness. Researchers have little clue regarding any common factors between the shooters and are not quick to label, which I strongly agree with.

From what I have read, it appears gun violence in general has actually gone down in the US. But, mass shootings appear to have gone up. This would lead me to believe that some form of fame-seeking is involved with some shooters.

I think you are right about the stigma in some circumstances. I've been teetering and rejecting the use of the word "depression" through most of this conversation. I would have to think it's almost a given.

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/26/2013 12:54:32 AM

littlewonder

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Being one who suffers clinical depression, I personally hate when I hear that as a "viable" reason for mass shootings. When my depression gets the best of me, I want to kill myself, not everyone around me and then myself. Just me.

When a person is depressed in the way one thinks of clinical depression, they don't normally think of taking anyone down with them. They don't think of how everyone has wronged them in life or are angry over something. They are angry and upset with themselves. They are feeling at the end of their rope, like there is no hope left for them and they have nowhere else to go but further down the black hole of hopelessness.

A person with clinical depression has a hard time getting out of bed and out of their own home, let alone to come up with a plan to kill others and execute the plan. It would leave them so exhausted they wouldn't have the energy to crawl out of bed, let alone hold a gun.

This is why I don't think depression really plays a role in this. I think it's more not feeling as if you fit in when you are a teenager which for those who are already mentally unbalanced, they see everyone as ganging up on them and so they want to take them out. And then you have others who are trying to get back at someone and then the others who have serious mental problems such as hallucinations, paranoia, conspiracy theories all around them, etc...

But depression? No. I don't even think it's possible.

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RE: Grasping for fame - 1/26/2013 12:51:27 PM

Powergamz1

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Thank you.

It is too common in these threads for various posts to bandy about 'mental illness', 'depression', 'sociopath', 'hearing voices', and finally 'dangerous' as though they were talking about the identical thing.

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